General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (5 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[J-DONK]

Nancy went after Joe

Pelosi Laments Biden’s Late Exit and the Lack of an ‘Open Primary’

“Had the president gotten out sooner, there may have been other candidates in the race,” the former House speaker said in an interview with The New York Times, suggesting she had anticipated an “open primary.”

www.nytimes.com

 

[MT15]

No one answered my question

Maybe you have me blocked, because I said in my first sentence that I agree with you there is hyperbole on both sides. I’m not getting into a pissing contest about how long it takes Trump to do more crazy shirt, because we’ve already seen him do illegal crazy shirt.

You ignored my request to tell me why the actions + rhetoric of the GOP don’t make a difference to you, and you hold it the same as the rhetoric of the Dems?

 

[MT15]

If I was sitting in a country wanting to take us down I’d be doing everything I could to get the reserve currency off of the USD. T

I have read that is the goal of a group of billionaires. They include Musk, IIRC. I’m no financial type-far from it-but from what I gather they think they will be able to control everything if our economy tanks. When everything goes poof - Musk thinks he and his buddies will be controlling everything. The Russian oligarchy on steroids. Vance is their guy, from what I’ve read.

 

[MT15]

I think there is evidence that both sides have been a threat to Democracy. Trump for J6 and literally bullying the state of Ga to make up votes. Democrats for screwing Bernie out of the nomination in 2016 and then installing Harris as Bidens replacement for this election. I think there are many people who look at the Dems not having a proper primary as more damaging than J6 tbh. At best, it renders a lot of the fear mongering by the left about J6 a moot point. If the Dem elite is just going to “fix” the nomination process then why even have a primary?

Ok, now you’ve lost me. There isn’t anything in the Constitution about how political parties pick their nominees and equating the Dem party using any way to pick their nominee that they see fit with an actual attack on an official act codified in the Constitution just isn’t credible at all.

Political parties can draw straws if they want to - it would be stupid, but it wouldn’t pose any threat to democracy whatsoever. Losing an election is the rightful consequence for messing up the nomination process in the public’s mind - but there is zero threat to the Constitution contained there.

This “both sides are equally bad” is ridiculous and needs to stop.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Nancy went after Joe

Pelosi Laments Biden’s Late Exit and the Lack of an ‘Open Primary’

“Had the president gotten out sooner, there may have been other candidates in the race,” the former House speaker said in an interview with The New York Times, suggesting she had anticipated an “open primary.”

www.nytimes.com

She is one to talk! The 84 year old just was re-elected to her seat! It seems to me that she is more concerned about keeping her seat at the table than passing on what she has learned so that others could continue her work.

 

[MT15]

Just because you or I don’t agree, we have to stop invalidating things as reasons just because we don’t agree. It’s the same mistake as calling everyone who voted for trump a racist and a nazi.

When something is a false equivalency - and equating the behavior of the Democratic political party in its own nomination process with the illegal attempt to stop the certification of an official act under the Constitution is a HUGE, gob-smacking false equivalency - saying that it isn’t a valid comparison is necessary. It’s not a mistake to be grounded in reality.

We cannot validate people making up their own reality. It needs to be pointed out. If we cannot stick to reality we have entered a world where nothing matters. This way lies madness.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

When something is a false equivalency - and equating the behavior of the Democratic political party in its own nomination process with the illegal attempt to stop the certification of an official act under the Constitution is a HUGE, gob-smacking false equivalency - saying that it isn’t a valid comparison is necessary. It’s not a mistake to be grounded in reality.

We cannot validate people making up their own reality. It needs to be pointed out. If we cannot stick to reality we have entered a world where nothing matters. This way lies madness.

Exactly this. People who equate a murky Democratic nomination process with J6 are out of touch with reality and those opinions do not deserve validation.

 

[barbar]

Again, none of that is fact... It's is a POV.... One almost specifically derived from what News / Propaganda / Company you ingest or keep...

And calling ~70M people - (or a substantial number of them) - On either side... Stupid for having to make a binary pre-selected choice between one or the other after being bombarded with divisionary poisonous rhetoric - Is not only not going to fix the situation... It's going to push them further in the other direction. It has to stop.

Sorry, what has to stop is the normalization of the behavior of Trump.

I got bit by a mosquito, and a rattle snake. They are both bites, so they are equally dangerous, right? Both sides!!!

TRUMP.
IS.
NOT.
NORMAL.

If we were talking about Biden vs Romney, you would be correct. Trump has ALREADY committed treasonous crimes and yet 70M voted for him..this is the real issue. Enough of this both sides stuff. One side plays normal, business as usual politics, mostly following rules and being honest about what they want to do. The other side is total scorched earth with a candidate who lies so much that people voted for him because they believe he is just lying and won't do any of that stuff, which they all admit is awful stuff.

Stop trying to make those 2 things equal. They aren't.

 

[barbar]

Exactly this. People who equate a murky Democratic nomination process with J6 are out of touch with reality and those opinions do not deserve validation.

Agreed. Unfortunately those people are choosing the president....it won't be fixed without fixing media and alternative facts ideology. People who lie and push propaganda MUST be held accountable ....very loudly and publicly. America needs to wage a war on misinformation, or else all is lost.

 

[faceman]

Harris was not condescending. Biden was until he retracted it. Trump was often condescending.

Trump is just like the president in Idiocracy. He has converted America into WWE. Talk tough and appeal to the lowest of our nature.

see if this pastes. dude nails it

 

[not2rich]

I would oppose a national abortion ban tooth and nail, but otherwise I’m okay letting the country get what they voted for. If Trump is all bluster while being “good for the economy” and not a fascist, that’s great. But if not, we should get what we voted for. I’m not fighting it. We deserve it.

 

[Bayouboy]

No, because my assumption wasn't that we'd have a police state in 12 months, or even 24 or 48 months. I also don't believe that every legal immigrant would get deported, etc, etc. Your initial premise is a strawman, or at least for me.


What I do expect him to do along those lines:
Attempt to change the civil service to make more positions political appointees. The degree to what this happens is the important thing. Ensuring that the executive branch is a bit more responsive to the electorate is not unreasonable, but since the 1800's the goal was to make the civil service apolitical, and therefore loyal to the Constitution and not politicians. So the system was to have the very heads of the branches be political appointees to set goals and direction and everyone else be the competent staff to carry that out. If you convert say a third of them a political appointee, they are now dependent on a politician for their job and their loyalty starts to shift away from the Constitution. It's also one of the markers for corrupt governments b/c it then becomes an easy mechanism for kickbacks (I'll get you a job if you give me 10% of your first year's salary - which is what happens in 3rd world countries).

Attempt to intimidate the press by threatening to take away broadcast rights for unfavorable coverage. He already threatened this publicly. I expect him to keep pushing this boundary. He's thankfully constrained by the Constitution, but we know that how you interpret the Constitution, and he gets to appoint those who do the interpreting. He's very bad at accepting criticism, so I expect him to keep pushing against this.

Attempt to suspend 4th amendment rights while trying to enact his mass deportation scheme.

Attempt to use the military against protestors. He's requested it in the past, so this isn't a stretch.

Your premise seems to indicate that if he isn't successful in completely annihilating the Constitution, then it was all an exaggeration, when for many of us, the concern is his normalization of anti-democratic traditions and institutions that will cause damage over time.

I had to quote this again. It was so well said that it deserves to be read again. There's probably some things to add to it, but man, it hit home. This is what I fear.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Racist incident at Five Guys in Grand Junction going viral online​

https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/bus...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

[Huntn]

So everyone here knows how I feel about these 2 parties.... Know my utter dislike and distaste for DJT.... Know my distrust in all things that originate in DC from the D establishment and R neocons and everything in between...

Given that.... I do not buy the over the top Hyperbolic rhetoric from either side.... and it's part of the reason I want both parties to be reduced to atoms... I never bought that Harris was a Marxist Communist - and I never bought that Trump was a Fascist Dictator.... And now that the election is over.... Almost all of that rhetoric has been shut down... Shocker.

So simple question... given the reality of the situation...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

Change our minds to do what exactly?
My suggestion to you is to not rely on equivalence arguments to try to make points. They're definitely not the same.Instead, look at and argue intent and actions. Put value on honesty annd democratic principles, and reject authoritarian, habitual, Fool’d Ya, break all rules, win at any cost liars.

 

[CoolBrees]

equivalencies are used by powers that be to win favor of the simple minded to explain complex subjects.

Analogies are nothing more than personal opinions used to illustrate unfamiliar concepts from a certain point of view.

By making compaprisons to something familiar, you are removing the critical thinking element and finding the most convenient solution. Which almost exclusively aligns with preconceived notions. This is a human brain fact - we prefer familiar so we can short cut to the solutions

They are the most effective tool of a propaganda machine because they get their abhorrent message softened and the lines blurred.

So being found guilty raping a woman in a dressing room in Bergdorf's is the same as choosing poor words. Being found guilty of tax fraud is the same as all politicians because they all lie and cheat.

Next it will be that Biden didn't stop Israel from bombing Gaza and we have always funded genocide. Or Obama put them in cages too. Or both.

The poor unwitting people that espouse these equivalencies are either in on it or one more person who has succumbed to propaganda. Which of course no one in the history of the world admitted falling for until it was over. Ask the Germans.

 

[MT15]

Another point of view. I find some merit in this. More than I’d like to admit. It’s from this:

All Bets Are Off | Joseph O’Neill

“The Democrats must do everything in their power and influence to oppose, slow down, and attach political costs to the Trump agenda.”

www.nybooks.com

 

[bird]

Another point of view. I find some merit in this. More than I’d like to admit. It’s from this:

All Bets Are Off | Joseph O’Neill

“The Democrats must do everything in their power and influence to oppose, slow down, and attach political costs to the Trump agenda.”

www.nybooks.com

Psychology, sociology and anthropology are also useful tools.

How and why people organize themselves into groups is critical to understand.

The mention of Hannah Arendt is useful. In he book “On Revolution” she talked about successful revolutions. Basically, at the time of her writing, she said the only successful one was the American revolution as it established institutions. She noted that the French Revolution failed due to a focus on rights to the exclusion of institutions. Imo, the Democratic Party needs to focus on reinforcing institutions that work and seeking to message change for institutions that don’t. Of course, there is the risk that individual circumstances within the electorate will be difficult to overcome.

Charlatans like Trump are very difficult to counter when they are seeking power. The game now must be to counter Trump while driving him into making stupid mistakes that are damaging to his base. Along with that exposing the Republican Party as fraudulent on as much of the fractured media infrastructure as possible is critical.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Truth comes out