General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (6 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[faceman]

You're wrong. Whitewater hurt her favorability, but then it went way up, particularly when she served as Sec of State.

By the Numbers: When America Loved and Hated Hillary

A look back through 22 years of polls reveals that Clinton has enjoyed two major spikes in popularity — at two very different times in her life.

www.nbcnews.com

My point still remains. Had Biden been nominated in 2016 we wouldn't be talking about Trump now. That said
I understand why he chose not too. I voted 3rd party in 2016. I didn't like either Trump or Hillary enough to vote
for either. I would have voted for Biden. I'm sure I'm not alone in my belief

 

[faceman]

He’s lied so much about so many things, to both his supporters and critics, here’s hoping he continues the streak

Yes, he's the king of lying. Let's rejoice when his cult sees he cannot do everything he promised.

 

[Lapaz]

My point still remains. Had Biden been nominated in 2016 we wouldn't be talking about Trump now. That said
I understand why he chose not too. I voted 3rd party in 2016. I didn't like either Trump or Hillary enough to vote
for either. I would have voted for Biden. I'm sure I'm not alone in my belief

I don't disagree that Biden would've had a better chance to beat Trump in 2016, but the point was related to how Michelle Obama would be a cinch to beat Trump because she is so popular, and you used Hillary's unpopularity as an argument. My point was the Republican machine is extraordinarily good at smearing people and making them unpopular. It is usually based in lies, but it works.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I don't disagree that Biden would've had a better chance to beat Trump in 2016, but the point was related to how Michelle Obama would be a cinch to beat Trump because she is so popular, and you used Hillary's unpopularity as an argument. My point was the Republican machine is extraordinarily good at smearing people and making them unpopular. It is usually based in lies, but it works.

They would be able to convince half the country that Michele is transgender and it would all be downhill from there.

 

[faceman]

I don't disagree that Biden would've had a better chance to beat Trump in 2016, but the point was related to how Michelle Obama would be a cinch to beat Trump because she is so popular, and you used Hillary's unpopularity as an argument. My point was the Republican machine is extraordinarily good at smearing people and making them unpopular. It is usually based in lies, but it works.

I respectfully disagree sir. I don't believe Michelle Obama would have beaten Trump. Most educated and informed people
voted for Harris. Nov. 5th proved to me the country as a whole doesn't trust a woman to be President now even if she
has the morals of Mother Theresa.

 

[Infoman]

No one answered my question... Just more "what about ism" and answering a question with a question (which is why I hate this system). I have addressed all that already... It's a shirt show...

The question was...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

There are a lot of receipts here... An both sides have repeatedly shown the ability to Lie, Say whatever it takes to sway voters, Change a Stance when what they say doesn't poll well, and never deliver on what they promise...

Again if none of that happens... Does it change your mind at all?

 

[Lapaz]

I respectfully disagree sir. I don't believe Michelle Obama would have beaten Trump. Most educated and informed people
voted for Harris. Nov. 5th proved to me the country as a whole doesn't trust a woman to be President now even if she
has the morals of Mother Theresa.

I wasn't arguing that Michelle Obama would have beaten Trump. I was actually refuting the point that Michelle would easily win simply because she is so popular. I was pointing out that Hillary was also popular, and the Republican machine destroyed her popularity, and I think they would hurt Michelle's popularity too. I do think it would be harder, because Michelle doesn't have the baggage that Hillary did, but it is hard to underestimate that machine. I think they'll claim she isn't qualified, yada, yada. Another problem Michelle has is that I don't think many in the country want a family affair. Finally, I also think Michelle has a great life, and she cherishes her role as a party elder.

 

[Lapaz]

No one answered my question... Just more "what about ism" and answering a question with a question (which is why I hate this system). I have addressed all of them already... It's a shirt show...

The question was...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

There are a lot of receipts here... Both sides have repeatedly shown the ability to Lie, Say whatever it takes to sway voters, Change a Stance when what they say doesn't poll well, and never deliver on what they promise...

Again if none of that happens... Does it change your mind at all?

First of all 12 months isn't enough to judge, but if he lied about his intentions, doesn't do what he said he would do, and respects civil liberties, then I would change my mind. Now, will you change your mind if he does what he says he intends to do?

 

[Infoman]

First of all 12 months isn't enough to judge, but if he lied about his intentions, doesn't do what he said he would do, and respects civil liberties, then I would change my mind. Now, will you change your mind if he does what he says he intends to do?

I just picked a time frame that I thought would represent a solid sample size... Being a sane person, and former Soldier - (Even though I have never supported Trump, but don't see Hitler) If he does any of those things... I would be inclined to do more than just change my mind... Thanks for answering.

 

[not2rich]

No one answered my question... Just more "what about ism" and answering a question with a question (which is why I hate this system). I have addressed all that already... It's a shirt show...

The question was...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

There are a lot of receipts here... An both sides have repeatedly shown the ability to Lie, Say whatever it takes to sway voters, Change a Stance when what they say doesn't poll well, and never deliver on what they promise...

Again if none of that happens... Does it change your mind at all?

I wouldn't limit the time frame to 12 months, but I'd admit I'm wrong when at the end of this my worst fears turn out to be unfounded. I want to be wrong. I'd rather the country do well than to be able to say "I told you so."

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

No one answered my question... Just more "what about ism" and answering a question with a question (which is why I hate this system). I have addressed all of them already... It's a shirt show...

So, you are asking us to completely ignore his previous actions such as shutting down DoJ's attempts to reign in Police Department's repeated 4th Amendment/Civil Rights violations across the nation. Hell, trump repeatedly encourage those violations. How about his attempt to have Americans shot by National Guardsmen for protesting in DC? His attempt to have Pres Obama and Sec Clinton investigated by the DoJ. There are so many more actions from his previous administration that we are supposed just ignore.

We are also asked to ignore the warnings from the thousands of SME's that were from HIS administration! Ignore his OWN WORDS from his current campaign and ignore the radical extremist within his campaign that will undoubtedly end up in his administration. I saw this movie in 2016 with a far superior cast, I had no interest seeing repeated with the cast he will have this time.

Nope, I'm not turning a blind eye to any of that but, I will answerer your question.

The question was...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

There are a lot of receipts here... If none of that happens... Does it change your mind at all?

NOPE!

He is still an alleged serial rapist that has not faced adjudication. He has repeatedly demonstrated himself to be a habitual liar that cheated on every wife he had. He is a very poor businessman that has gone through multiple bankruptcies. He has shown himself to be a low IQ, low morality having individual that has the character traits of a common thug. Trump couldn't be hired to run a corner store and he exhibit ZERO qualities that I would expect a decent human being to have, much less the POTUS.

 

[Infoman]

So, you are asking us to completely ignore his previous actions such as shutting down DoJ's attempts to reign in Police Department's repeated 4th Amendment/Civil Rights violations across the nation. Hell, trump repeatedly encourage those violations. How about his attempt to have Americans shot by National Guardsmen for protesting in DC? His attempt to have Pres Obama and Sec Clinton investigated by the DoJ. There are so many more actions from his previous administration that we are supposed just ignore.

We are also asked to ignore the warnings from the thousands of SME's that were from HIS administration! Ignore his OWN WORDS from his current campaign and ignore the radical extremist within his campaign that will undoubtedly end up in his administration. I saw this movie in 2016 with a far superior cast, I had no interest seeing repeated with the cast he will have this time.

Nope, I'm not turning a blind eye to any of that but, I will answerer your question.

NOPE!

He is still an alleged serial rapist that has not faced adjudication. He has repeatedly demonstrated himself to be a habitual liar that cheated on every wife he had. He is a very poor businessman that has gone through multiple bankruptcies. He has shown himself to be a low IQ, low morality having individual that has the character traits of a common thug. Trump couldn't be hired to run a corner store and he exhibit ZERO qualities that I would expect a decent human being to have, much less the POTUS.

I am asking you to answer the question... Nothing more.

You did so.... No one is saying he isn't an butt crevasse, or isn't someone that shouldn't be able to hold the title of Leader of the Free World... That's not the question I asked. He already has the Job, and he is that guy - Like it or not...

The question was... If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing? I.e. Claim like is gospel that everything we don't like about the person or the policy is either Nazi Hitler Fascism or Marxist Communist Socialism.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

No one answered my question... Just more "what about ism" and answering a question with a question (which is why I hate this system). I have addressed all that already... It's a shirt show...

The question was...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

There are a lot of receipts here... An both sides have repeatedly shown the ability to Lie, Say whatever it takes to sway voters, Change a Stance when what they say doesn't poll well, and never deliver on what they promise...

Again if none of that happens... Does it change your mind at all?

No, because my assumption wasn't that we'd have a police state in 12 months, or even 24 or 48 months. I also don't believe that every legal immigrant would get deported, etc, etc. Your initial premise is a strawman, or at least for me.


What I do expect him to do along those lines:
Attempt to change the civil service to make more positions political appointees. The degree to what this happens is the important thing. Ensuring that the executive branch is a bit more responsive to the electorate is not unreasonable, but since the 1800's the goal was to make the civil service apolitical, and therefore loyal to the Constitution and not politicians. So the system was to have the very heads of the branches be political appointees to set goals and direction and everyone else be the competent staff to carry that out. If you convert say a third of them a political appointee, they are now dependent on a politician for their job and their loyalty starts to shift away from the Constitution. It's also one of the markers for corrupt governments b/c it then becomes an easy mechanism for kickbacks (I'll get you a job if you give me 10% of your first year's salary - which is what happens in 3rd world countries).

Attempt to intimidate the press by threatening to take away broadcast rights for unfavorable coverage. He already threatened this publicly. I expect him to keep pushing this boundary. He's thankfully constrained by the Constitution, but we know that how you interpret the Constitution, and he gets to appoint those who do the interpreting. He's very bad at accepting criticism, so I expect him to keep pushing against this.

Attempt to suspend 4th amendment rights while trying to enact his mass deportation scheme.

Attempt to use the military against protestors. He's requested it in the past, so this isn't a stretch.

Your premise seems to indicate that if he isn't successful in completely annihilating the Constitution, then it was all an exaggeration, when for many of us, the concern is his normalization of anti-democratic traditions and institutions that will cause damage over time.

 

[J-DONK]

No, because my assumption wasn't that we'd have a police state in 12 months, or even 24 or 48 months. I also don't believe that every legal immigrant would get deported, etc, etc. Your initial premise is a strawman, or at least for me.


What I do expect him to do along those lines:
Attempt to change the civil service to make more positions political appointees. The degree to what this happens is the important thing. Ensuring that the executive branch is a bit more responsive to the electorate is not unreasonable, but since the 1800's the goal was to make the civil service apolitical, and therefore loyal to the Constitution and not politicians. So the system was to have the very heads of the branches be political appointees to set goals and direction and everyone else be the competent staff to carry that out. If you convert say a third of them a political appointee, they are now dependent on a politician for their job and their loyalty starts to shift away from the Constitution. It's also one of the markers for corrupt governments b/c it then becomes an easy mechanism for kickbacks (I'll get you a job if you give me 10% of your first year's salary - which is what happens in 3rd world countries).

Attempt to intimidate the press by threatening to take away broadcast rights for unfavorable coverage. He already threatened this publicly. I expect him to keep pushing this boundary. He's thankfully constrained by the Constitution, but we know that how you interpret the Constitution, and he gets to appoint those who do the interpreting. He's very bad at accepting criticism, so I expect him to keep pushing against this.

Attempt to suspend 4th amendment rights while trying to enact his mass deportation scheme.

Attempt to use the military against protestors. He's requested it in the past, so this isn't a stretch.

Your premise seems to indicate that if he isn't successful in completely annihilating the Constitution, then it was all an exaggeration, when for many of us, the concern is his normalization of anti-democratic traditions and institutions that will cause damage over time.

Yeah, I assume they are going to enact P25. I don't know why infoman is using so much hyperbole.

 

[SFIDC3]

I wouldn't limit the time frame to 12 months, but I'd admit I'm wrong when at the end of this my worst fears turn out to be unfounded. I want to be wrong. I'd rather the country do well than to be able to say "I told you so."

Good post, I'm with you on this one.....I want to be wrong as well.....

But I feel if I am wrong it's only because the guardrails of democracy held, because right now, I feel they are going to be tested, like severely tested.....and that is frightening to me and should be to anyone really....

 

[jdn9201]

No one answered my question... Just more "what about ism" and answering a question with a question (which is why I hate this system). I have addressed all that already... It's a shirt show...

The question was...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

There are a lot of receipts here... An both sides have repeatedly shown the ability to Lie, Say whatever it takes to sway voters, Change a Stance when what they say doesn't poll well, and never deliver on what they promise...

Again if none of that happens... Does it change your mind at all?

I’ll sort of answer your question. I’m a longtime lurker - 41, female with two kids who voted Republican my entire life until 2020. I was and still am worried about Trump winning, but I think people need to calm down. He’s not Hitler. I find it ironic that people are so panicked about things he has said when the number one thing he does is lie. I think the majority of what he said was just whatever he thought he needed to say to win.

Also, people have the attention span of a gnat. People are loyal to him because they think he benefits them. Even uneducated voters. They will all turn on him on a dime when they don’t see the benefit anymore.

Rich people have their wealth tied up in stock - especially Musk. All of this talk about crashing the economy is just talk because the value of Tesla goes poof if no one can afford to buy Teslas anymore.

The BIG problem is one no one is talking about - our national debt. Financially speaking we are bankrupt. If I was sitting in a country wanting to take us down I’d be doing everything I could to get the reserve currency off of the USD. That would do more damage to us than a nuke would. No one has the guts to even say it, but taxes need to go up and government spending needs to go down. I actually hope the project 2025 stuff about government shrinkage is true. The problem is no one on the world stage cares, then all of a sudden one day they will and it’s going to be ugly. The cuts we are going to have to face will be so large that most of the government we know exists today will have no money left. We’ve lost the ability to problem solve. We can’t talk to anyone who disagrees with us and come to a solution on anything. The giant elephant in the room isn’t Trump - it’s the debt.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I am asking you to answer the question... Nothing more.

You did so.... No one is saying he isn't an butt crevasse, or isn't someone that shouldn't be able to hold the title of Leader of the Free World... That's not the question I asked. He already has the Job, and he is that guy - Like it or not...

The question was... If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing? I.e. Claim like is gospel that everything we don't like about the person or the policy is either Nazi Hitler Fascism or Marxist Communist Socialism.

Trump is who he is and he's not capable of change.

Now, what are the "guardrails" that's gonna prevent him from acting out his Project 2025 Agenda 47 policies? Keep in mind, in order for him to accomplish his written plans, it requires several laws and regulations to be overturned. What is there to stop that from happening? The courts are already polluted with Federalist Society and Heritage Foundation zealots that are eager to allow his unitary executive authority. SCOTUS? HA!

What will stop him from impeaching the 3 remaining "evil" Justices on the court? Congress? Ha! This congress is littered with those that tacitly joined in the plot to overthrow the Biden Administration before it even took office.

What I'm saying is that your hypothetical question is based off a flawed idea that trump will not act on his own worst rhetoric from this campaign due to his own good will, adherence to current law and the US Constitution.

 

[Infoman]

Yeah, I assume they are going to enact P25. I don't know why infoman is using so much hyperbole.

These are the things that have literally been said the entire election cycle... I am not making them up or over stating them...

I have Dem friends and family that think it's the end of Democracy... because they have been told it is... I have Rep friends and family that think had he not been elected it was the end of Democracy because they have been told so...

Then I have myself and my few moderate IND friends and family that sit around and ask what the hell is wrong with everyone... It's unstainable insanity to keep our politics this way in a 2 party system where the extremes on both sides have the loudest voices and each point to the other side as the End of Days.....

I mean... I ask my people on the Left... Do you think 74M US citizens are really Nazi, Racist, Sexist, Dictator supporters? I ask my people on the Right... Do you think 70M US citizens are Marxist, Communist, Elitist, Deep State Autocrat supporters? No one answers that...

Because if you do.... We have nothing to discuss in good faith anymore... and it's time to 1775 this thing now.

This has to stop.