General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (10 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[fooferdoggie]

A problem he certainly intends to fix

Trump says on Joe Rogan podcast his biggest White House mistake was hiring ‘disloyal people’

Three-hour long interview caused delay in ex-president’s arrival to Michigan rally, leaving attendees in cold for hours

www.theguardian.com

yes this will really be bad.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Lol, you fools are fed by the lying media and apparently you know so much that just ain't so! The media fed fools you are is laughable!

Is that all media or just corporate media, Saint4Life?

ETA Didn't realize the poster was banned when I replied to them.

 

[SamAndreas]

You are mischaraterizing yourself on purpose here.

The question: "Why are young men turning away from the Democratic party"?

You: "Misogny"

That's reductive, lazy, and probably untrue.

Do I think young men are suddently becoming sexist? Probably not, I would look for structural reasons like the one I brought up about education levels.

If it makes you sleep better at night to say "They just hate women" go for it. I'd rather we didn't lie to ourselves though.

You are proposing the proposition that young men are turning away from the Democratic Party as if it were a fact.

I don't think it's a fact that an especially large contingent of young men are behaving that way. The only place I can think of where you might have picked that up is looking at the internals of some of the second rate polls we've been being fed by the news media.

Some of those internals have error factors of like plus or minus 30% due to the small sample size of say young black men.

Internals only work for the major demographic groups where the sample size is reasonable. The posters simply don't talk to enough young black men. And it's also likely that when they do get a young black man on the phone he hangs up on them. So they give extra weight to the few they do talk with because that demographic is under represented. .

Ask yourself what kind of young black man wouldn't hang up the phone on a pollster who wanted to tie them down for about 20 minutes.

The young generation has no scruples about hanging up the phone if they don't want to be bothered. Rampant phone scammers have ruined it for pollsters.

I'm not young but I do that as well. But in my case I had to break with an instilled sense that I ought not hang up on people. The young generations haven't had that instilled in them when they were young.

Hell the last few years even my 90 year old mother has adopted a policy that she may hang up on someone the moment she feels like doing so.

 

[LA - L.A.]

For me, the most encouraging thing I've seen out of early voting data is the massive number of women voting over men -- it's a pretty substantial margin, and it's actually growing as time goes on. Would we call it a pink wave if it holds?

I like the Lysistrata wave to go really old school.

 

[LA - L.A.]

That is what I was talking about.....and it's the most confusing. Explain to me how a black man (unless they are extremely wealthy) can possibly decide that a vote for Trump would be better for them than a vote for Harris. Not only short term, but long term. Make it make sense.

Part of it is general emotional dysfunction including toxic beliefs about masculinity.

 

[SamAndreas]

Muslim and Arab leaders take the stage to endorse Trump at Michigan rally

At the rally, a group of Muslim imams took the stage to endorse Trump, expressing their support for his stance on ending the wars in the Middle East.

www.mlive.com

Big surprise conmen endorse a conman.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Won't be long before Musk tweets out, "work makes one free."

 

[LA - L.A.]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems more of a case of mismatched cause and effect. We see change, trends, and *someone* says they're connected and then we start arguing before examining that connection.

More women graduating doesn't mean they're stomping over the guys to do it. So many other factors to consider. Ripe for good cherry-pickers looking for some nugget to divide us.

The trap is in letting other people tell you what you're seeing.

Spot on. I'm a white guy and I don't have a college degree. It's my own damn fault and I don't blame anyone else. If a white guy without a college degree is blaming women and society favoring women for him not having a college degree, then what that white guy needs is some introspection and self-accountability.

What they don't need is someone telling them it's understandable they blame women and it's not their fault they blame women. That's the same bullshirt argument white racist make, "it's not my fault I blame non-white people for my problems and think they are inferior, it's society's fault for not treating me better and taking care of me better.

That's 100% concentrated industrial bullshirt.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Education levels, over 1/3 don't have sex, spikes in suicide levels

I only have two and half years of college. Entirely my fault.

Regarding 1/3 not having sex, how does compare to different times historically. One of the great male myths is that all males through human history all lead a very active sexual life. Japan has a much higher percentage of all young people not having sexual relationships for at least 10 years now. They've been trying to find a solution and can't find one. What do you think is the solution to get that 1/3 having sex? Should we provide national sexcare? I'd be in favor of that, by the way, because it would de-stigmatize and empower a lot of women who are sex workers.

There's been a bigger spike in girls committing suicide than there has been with boys. In fact, the rate for girls have almost caught up with the rate for boys, who have historically committed suicide at much higher rates than girls. Yet again, the boys don't have it any worse than the girls. Mental health workers say the rise in misogynistic treatment of girls is one of the reasons they are committing suicide at a higher rate, so there's that.

There are plenty of alarming stats with structual problems...

Name 3 structural problems and the alarming stats showing the structural problems. Speaking in generalities leads to disagreement far more often than it does to understanding.

 

[LA - L.A.]

This is a very telling sentence, Donk. It assumes you know what I mean better than I do, and it also assumes that you know that I have decided to be duplicitous on purpose.

It's something they frequently do to those who disagree with them. I think it's projection.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Conservative churches have taught this for decades, I remember this from my childhood. Specifically Evangelicals.

They have recently turned it up a notch, now there is a push that women should only vote the way their husbands decide for them. And where women used to be allowed to run the music program or the Sunday School programs, there are lots of churches now forbidding that as well. Right wing pastors are also advocating for the repeal of women’s right to vote.

These are all new developments that were not prevalent in my experience before the last few years.

One of the reasons I do not subscribe to any religion is because all religions treat women as inferior within the religion, for the most part. There are of course a few exceptions here and there, but almost all of the world's religions are strictly patriarchal organizations. Religion is responsible for most of the oppression, abuse, torture and murder women have suffered throughout human history.

 

[J-DONK]

You are proposing the proposition that young men are turning away from the Democratic Party as if it were a fact.

I don't think it's a fact that an especially large contingent of young men are behaving that way. The only place I can think of where you might have picked that up is looking at the internals of some of the second rate polls we've been being fed by the news media.

Some of those internals have error factors of like plus or minus 30% due to the small sample size of say young black men.

Internals only work for the major demographic groups where the sample size is reasonable. The posters simply don't talk to enough young black men. And it's also likely that when they do get a young black man on the phone he hangs up on them. So they give extra weight to the few they do talk with because that demographic is under represented. .

Ask yourself what kind of young black man wouldn't hang up the phone on a pollster who wanted to tie them down for about 20 minutes.

The young generation has no scruples about hanging up the phone if they don't want to be bothered. Rampant phone scammers have ruined it for pollsters.

I'm not young but I do that as well. But in my case I had to break with an instilled sense that I ought not hang up on people. The young generations haven't had that instilled in them when they were young.

Hell the last few years even my 90 year old mother has adopted a policy that she may hang up on someone the moment she feels like doing so.

This is silly. Multiple polls are showing this over, and over again. You can wait until after election day and see how the demographics shake out.

There is a reason the Trump camapgin is targetting this group. They clearly have seen internal polling themslves that points to this.

This isn't a made up psyop.

 

[SamAndreas]

This is silly. Multiple polls are showing this over, and over again. You can wait until after election day and see how the demographics shake out.

There is a reason the Trump camapgin is targetting this group. They clearly have seen internal polling themslves that points to this.

This isn't a made up psyop.

"You can wait until after election day and see how the demographics shake out."

 

[J-DONK]

I only have two and half years of college. Entirely my fault.

Regarding 1/3 not having sex, how does compare to different times historically. One of the great male myths is that all males through human history all lead a very active sexual life. Japan has a much higher percentage of all young people not having sexual relationships for at least 10 years now. They've been trying to find a solution and can't find one. What do you think is the solution to get that 1/3 having sex? Should we provide national sexcare? I'd be in favor of that, by the way, because it would de-stigmatize and empower a lot of women who are sex workers.

There's been a bigger spike in girls committing suicide than there has been with boys. In fact, the rate for girls have almost caught up with the rate for boys, who have historically committed suicide at much higher rates than girls. Yet again, the boys don't have it any worse than the girls. Mental health workers say the rise in misogynistic treatment of girls is one of the reasons they are committing suicide at a higher rate, so there's that.



Name 3 structural problems and the alarming stats showing the structural problems. Speaking in generalities leads to disagreement far more often than it does to understanding.

I'm arguing with the same group I argued with that Biden needed to step down.

I'm done trying to talk sense into this group.

This is not a hard concept. You will never formulate a plan to win over a demographic if they are all simply misogynist. You can try to figure out the structual issues driving this change, or just chalk all it up women hating.

If Trump wins this will be one of the biggest post-mortem talking points, and discussions. It can be tabled until then.

If you guys can't comprehend this concept. It's not my fault. This isn't hard or complex.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Coach Pop nails it!

Nothing but net.

 

[SamAndreas]

It's funny you replied to me with this, and not the person who wanted to blame it all on misogny.

Oh this board sometimes..........

May I point out that you are mischaracterizing another person, and you misusing universal quantifiers. It was wrong for you to say "all" You could have said 'most' or 'some.'

I said I don't evaluate the data as you have. I doubt the primary premise of your argument. I didn't say misogyny because the foundation data doesn't go far enough for me to think it comes to that.

I'm pretty sure I'm one of those who you say argued with you before. You appear to find it frustrating that you can't knock some sense into us.

Us is to be defined as people here who argue with you.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Condescending as usual.

The way you go about dismissing things you don't agree with is condescending. I find that exasperating and don't hide that fact. You are misinterpreting my exasperation with condescension.

I don’t believe you have data that shows people have switched from Trump to Harris in the last month...

Your comment above is case in point of your condescending dismissals. Notice you didn't say there is no data, you specifically say "I don't believe you have data that shows..." You operate out of belief and don't seem to have any investigative or self-informing intellectual curiosity at all.

There are many recent posts in this and other threads with data that support what I'm saying. I haven't seen any data posted here or anywhere else that supports what you keep saying.

You are repeating opinions that those in news and political punditry express, but none of you ever provide any data to support what you're saying. You state your opinion as if it's fact and then categorically dismiss anyone and anything that disagrees with your opinion.

 

[SamAndreas]

It's Silly: