General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (9 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[MT15]

This is exactly what I was talking about.

I can give you a really good example.

Why has the left ignored male college graduate levels? Why was anyone talking about women in stem when there is a 10 point grudation rate disparity?

The whole incel thing is mocked, and ignored at our peril. Never has a young, sexless male population been good for the stability of a society.

At some point, us liberals will have to come to terms with the fact we failed young men.

It sucks that people want to wrap this up "misogny" then the above example has to be misandry. Would I want to vote for a bunch of man haters if I was a young man?

So, your reply is exactly what I’m talking about. Calling out misogyny when it happens isn’t misandrist, any more than calling out racism is hatred of white people.

Bigots make that argument all the time as well, btw. That white people are being targeted because black people point out their racism.

Misogyny is higher in this country right now than at any time in my life that I can remember. That should shock you. I have never before seen basic rights taken away from a group of people, like bodily autonomy was taken away from women.

It’s fine to help young men, I don’t have a problem with programs or campaigns to help them. But saying that someone “hates men” because they can recognize that misogyny is still alive and well is the opposite of helpful here.

 

[J-DONK]

So, your reply is exactly what I’m talking about. Calling out misogyny when it happens isn’t misandrist, any more than calling out racism is hatred of white people.

Bigots make that argument all the time as well, btw. That white people are being targeted because black people point out their racism.

You don't address my point. You come on this site and talk about women's issue and expect empathy. I don't hear a single person talking about male education levels, the crisis with young men, etc on the left. You then say well the fact they aren't voting for us is "Misogny".

I will say this for the upteeth time on this site. If the choice is the party/candidate is wrong, or an voting bloc. The problem always lies with party/candidate.

You can keep villianize the other gender if it makes you feel good. It's not going to help anything, nor lead to meaningful discussion.

 

[MT15]

You can keep villianize the other gender if it makes you feel good.

This is simply more of the same. It’s not villainizing the other gender to point out basic facts. Two things can be true - and it doesn’t harm young men to acknowledge that we have a large increase in misogyny right now that I think is one reason some young men are reluctant to vote for Harris.

If you want to discuss the ways young men have been failed - have at it. Start the thread, it’s a good topic. But the discussion here was why some young men want to elect Trump. I don’t see Trump doing anything to help young men in particular - other than suppressing women and minorities.

Do you?

 

[GrandAdmiral]

That is what I was talking about.....and it's the most confusing. Explain to me how a black man (unless they are extremely wealthy) can possibly decide that a vote for Trump would be better for them than a vote for Harris. Not only short term, but long term. Make it make sense.

Because like some other races, there are those that believe, based on faith teachings, that women are never meant to be in positions of leadership. This is why they'll never accept the idea of a woman pastor or will vote for a racist instead of his opponent...

Then there are the idiots who actually believe they have a connection with the felon because of being taken advantage of by the man. Those fools I have simply told off and blocked from all friends lists.

 

[J-DONK]

This is simply more of the same. It’s not villainizing the other gender to point out basic facts. Two things can be true - and it doesn’t harm young men to acknowledge that we have a large increase in misogyny right now that I think is one reason some young men are reluctant to vote for Harris.

If you want to discuss the ways young men have been failed - have at it. Start the thread, it’s a good topic. But the discussion here was why some young men want to elect Trump. I don’t see Trump doing anything to help young men in particular - other than suppressing women and minorities.

Do you?

You are mischaraterizing yourself on purpose here.

The question: "Why are young men turning away from the Democratic party"?

You: "Misogny"

That's reductive, lazy, and probably untrue.

Do I think young men are suddently becoming sexist? Probably not, I would look for structural reasons like the one I brought up about education levels.

If it makes you sleep better at night to say "They just hate women" go for it. I'd rather we didn't lie to ourselves though.

 

[Sharon]

This is exactly what I was talking about.

I can give you a really good example.

Why has the left ignored male college graduate levels? Why was anyone talking about women in stem when there is a 10 point grudation rate disparity in favor of women?

The whole incel thing is mocked, and ignored at our peril. Never has a young, sexless male population been good for the stability of a society.

At some point, us liberals will have to come to terms with the fact we failed young men.

It sucks that people want to wrap this up "misogny" then the above example has to be misandry. Would I want to vote for a bunch of man haters if I was a young man?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems more of a case of mismatched cause and effect. We see change, trends, and *someone* says they're connected and then we start arguing before examining that connection.

More women graduating doesn't mean they're stomping over the guys to do it. So many other factors to consider. Ripe for good cherry-pickers looking for some nugget to divide us.

The trap is in letting other people tell you what you're seeing.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

I don't hear a single person talking about male education levels, the crisis with young men, etc on the left. You then say well the fact they aren't voting for us is "Misogny".

I will say this for the upteeth time on this site. If the choice is the party/candidate is wrong, or an voting bloc. The problem always lies with party/candidate.

I will agree in part that it isn't necessarily misogyny. However, for many men, they use this as an excuse. Women have experienced similar issues in education, workforce, etc. In some instances it's worse. Men, in many instances, feel entitled to certain things. And I have zero problems calling out my fellow brothers who do so.

 

[J-DONK]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems more of a case of mismatched cause and effect. We see change, trends, and *someone* says they're connected and then we start arguing before examining that connection.

More women graduating doesn't mean they're stomping over the guys to do it. So many other factors to consider. Ripe for good cherry-pickers looking for some nugget to divide us.

The trap is in letting other people tell you what you're seeing.

It's funny you replied to me with this, and not the person who wanted to blame it all on misogny.

Oh this board sometimes..........

 

[J-DONK]

I will agree in part that it isn't necessarily misogyny. However, for many men, they use this as an excuse. Women have experienced similar issues in education, workforce, etc. In some instances it's worse. Men, in many instances, feel entitled to certain. And I have zero problems calling out my fellow brothers who do so.

I feel like part of this discussion is being lost.

All I'm really saying is if you want want win back young men the left needs to have an honest discussion about young men's issue.

Education levels, over 1/3 don't have sex, spikes in suicide levels

There are plenty of alarming stats with structual problems with could be addressed with policy. They simply aren't. I would start there before I start labeling them all as women haters.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

I feel like part of this discussion is being lost.

All I'm really saying is if you want want win back young men the left needs to have an honest discussion about young men's issue.

Education levels, over 1/3 don't have sex, spikes in suicide levels

There are plenty of alarming stats with structual problems with could be addressed with policy. They simply aren't. I would start there before I start labeling them all as women haters.

I think we need to be clear among several things. One, the "men" problem is an American issue in many aspects. But let's also be clear that it's likely more a black men (or POC) problem than anything. Uncollege-educated white men never vote Democrat. It's almost written in stone. There's an issue with men of color that is more than just based in policy.

 

[MT15]

I would start there before I start labeling them all as women haters.

This is mischaracterizing as well. I never said I wanted to blame it ALL on misogyny or that I wanted to label them all as women-haters.

You have also moved the goalpost on the discussion. The original discussion was about support for Harris specifically. You have changed that to the Democratic Party in general. That’s a different discussion.

We cannot ignore the upsurge in misogyny when talking about Harris’ support from men being lower than expected, IMO.

 

[Sharon]

>>>It's funny you replied to me with this, and not the person who wanted to blame it all on misogny.

"blame it all on misogny" is your read on her response. I believe she said "some" towards the end. And "blame" is not a word used lightly by most.

I'm not sure why you're addressing "us" as being of one mind. You know many of us, and that we come from various backgrounds, etc. And as far as I know, no one here is a party official with real power to actually put a platform together, so I'm not sure what you expect "us" to do.

I have read discussion addressing the concerns you brought up,. The connection between easy gun access and suicide, for example. Many of us have families we're considering, too. You cannot possibly know what everyone is thinking and what motivates us to log in and type.

 

[MT15]

You are mischaraterizing yourself on purpose here.

This is a very telling sentence, Donk. It assumes you know what I mean better than I do, and it also assumes that you know that I have decided to be duplicitous on purpose.

 

[zztop]

Because like some other races, there are those that believe, based on faith teachings, that women are never meant to be in positions of leadership. This is why they'll never accept the idea of a woman pastor or will vote for a racist instead of his opponent...

This reminds me of my uncle, he went somewhere that had a female pastor, and instantly soured on it because of that reason. He is also a diehard trump supporter. Maybe there is a correlation

 

[MT15]

This reminds me of my uncle, he went somewhere that had a female pastor, and instantly soured on it because of that reason. He is also a diehard trump supporter. Maybe there is a correlation

Conservative churches have taught this for decades, I remember this from my childhood. Specifically Evangelicals.

They have recently turned it up a notch, now there is a push that women should only vote the way their husbands decide for them. And where women used to be allowed to run the music program or the Sunday School programs, there are lots of churches now forbidding that as well. Right wing pastors are also advocating for the repeal of women’s right to vote.

These are all new developments that were not prevalent in my experience before the last few years.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Conservative churches have taught this for decades, I remember this from my childhood. Specifically Evangelicals.

They have recently turned it up a notch, now there is a push that women should only vote the way their husbands decide for them. And where women used to be allowed to run the music program or the Sunday School programs, there are lots of churches now forbidding that as well. Right wing pastors are also advocating for the repeal of women’s right to vote.

These are all new developments that were not prevalent in my experience before the last few years.

yep easier to control them sexually.

 

[MT15]

Trump started his PA rally 90 minutes late - running it close to the kickoff for the college football game. The people reacted normally by leaving. He’s such a chaos agent - can’t run his campaign any better than he ran the country.

 

[faceman]

Trump started his PA rally 90 minutes late - running it close to the kickoff for the college football game. The people reacted normally by leaving. He’s such a chaos agent - can’t run his campaign any better than he ran the country.

Texas is on notice,