First presidential debate (2 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[SaintForLife]

I don't see how Biden can stay in with all the momentum moving toward him not being the nominee.

 

[Greg]

I don't see how Biden can stay in with all the momentum moving toward him not being the nominee.

Imagine how he’s going to be in 4 1/2 years. If true not only should he not be running, he should resign and let Kamala finish out his term. This is why we have a VP.

 

[SamAndreas]

So we're now at the point where we're attacking the media. Seems very Trumpish.

Good call, I came here this morning to bring this associated with debate subject up.

The media has been behaving very Trumpish, (Criminalish).

I've got two things here, the first is illustrated by this headline which typifies my complaint. My complaint is that the media is making the news they are reporting, and as thus have entered the realm of politics which leaves them open to being attacked quite rightly, hopefully bigally with some vigor.

Here's the headline: WP: "As Biden digs in another elected Democrat calls on him to exit race." What's wrong with that is the authors have used as many words to avoid saying who that Democrat is, as it would have taken to have given their name. At best they could claim at WP that they were only click baiting their readers.

At worst they are trying to change the news to cause a public result the authors, and or media bosses, would like to influence.

As it turns out all four of the "Elected Democrats," in place of naming them, are people most Americans will never have heard of before this moment. There are a total of 635 elected members in the Senate and House, and that four amount to about one half of one percent of that body.

Yet as each of those measly four have sounded off they have each created a flurry of media reporting where for the most part the media has tried to number them like as if they are significant, and have as the WP did, they have at best made clickbait out of of it, using more words to hide the fact that they are avoiding naming that person until they have got their click out of it.


My second complaint is illustrated by this I found on Twitter, but which I didn't notice on the Google News Index of the media giants. The criminal from his golf cart sound off a few days ago, saying that Biden was dropping out, and then adding creepy remarks about Harris, the one he implied is now the Democratic candidate.

For this there is video and a Biden campaign response. First the response so that a person watching the video will know what to thrust to listen for in the Criminal's statement on the video.

That's bad because the media in their feeding frenzy mode ignored something quite relevant while they were pushing their own made up political narrative instead of reporting relevant news.

Maybe it's the media who needs to bow out from this Presidential campaign.

They collectively stuck their noses where they are not suppose to be. I say bloody their noses for doing so. They are fair game.

Yesterday someone I was reading was saying that the Democrats need to perhaps run against the media, treat them like they are the opposition. I'm not quite there, but I'm not far from there.

I'm there enough I wouldn't mind seeing some shots over the bow going their way.

 

[SamAndreas]

Imagine how he’s going to be in 4 1/2 years. If true not only should he not be running, he should resign and let Kamala finish out his term. This is why we have a VP.

I think you are halfway there.

He should see this election through because we will lose it to the Criminal if he doesn't. And then after February 20, resign turning it all over to Harris as our founders intended it to be when they created the office of the VP. And when they built a house in DC for the VP to live in.

 

[DaveXA]

Good call, I came here this morning to bring this associated with debate subject up.

The media has been behaving very Trumpish, (Criminalish).

I've got two things here, the first is illustrated by this headline which typifies my complaint. My complaint is that the media is making the news they are reporting, and as thus have entered the realm of politics which leaves them open to being attacked quite rightly, hopefully bigally with some vigor.

Here's the headline: WP: "As Biden digs in another elected Democrat calls on him to exit race." What's wrong with that is the authors have used as many words to avoid saying who that Democrat is, as it would have taken to have given their name. At best they could claim at WP that they were only click baiting their readers.

At worst they are trying to change the news to cause a public result the authors, and or media bosses, would like to influence.

As it turns out all four of the "Elected Democrats," in place of naming them, are people most Americans will never have heard of before this moment. There are a total of 635 elected members in the Senate and House, and that four amount to about one half of one percent of that body.

Yet as each of those measly four have sounded off they have each created a flurry of media reporting where for the most part the media has tried to number them like as if they are significant, and have as the WP did, they have at best made clickbait out of of it, using more words to hide the fact that they are avoiding naming that person until they have got their click out of it.


My second complaint is illustrated by this I found on Twitter, but which I didn't notice on the Google News Index of the media giants. The criminal from his golf cart sound off a few days ago, saying that Biden was dropping out, and then adding creepy remarks about Harris, the one he implied is now the Democratic candidate.

For this there is video and a Biden campaign response. First the response so that a person watching the video will know what to thrust to listen for in the Criminal's statement on the video.

That's bad because the media in their feeding frenzy mode ignored something quite relevant while they were pushing their own made up political narrative instead of reporting relevant news.

Maybe it's the media who needs to bow out from this Presidential campaign.

They collectively stuck their noses where they are not suppose to be. I say bloody their noses for doing so. They are fair game.

Yesterday someone I was reading was saying that the Democrats need to perhaps run against the media, treat them like they are the opposition. I'm not quite there, but I'm not far from there.

I'm there enough I wouldn't mind seeing some shots over the bow going their way.

There's a small issue with your post. You stated that the media is not saying who that Democrat is, but the fact is that several names have been mentioned and quoted as at least being very concerned. They may not even be calling him to step down, but they are telling Joe he needs to allay people's concerns by showing that the debate was a fluke, and clearly few people believe it was simply an off night. Pelosi, Schiff and several others have already raised concerns. Several Democratic leaders are meeting at the Capitol today to discuss a way forward including House minority leader Hakeem Jeffries.

I really don't have a dog in this fight because I'll vote for that dog over Trump. But we need to have some objectivity about this and I feel like people are being motivated more by irrational fear than good sense.

Adam Schiff, a House Democrat who is likely to become California’s next senator in the November election, said he thought Kamala Harris could win the election, if Joe Bidendrops out.

“The interview didn’t put concerns to rest. No single interview is going to do that,” Schiff said on NBC News. “And what I do think the president needs to decide is, can he put those concerns aside? Can he demonstrate the American people that what happened on the debate stage was an aberration?”

Referring to the vice-president, Schiff said, “I think she very well could win overwhelmingly, but before we get into a decision about who else it should be, the president needs to make a decision about whether it’s him.”

He added: “Either he has to win overwhelmingly, or he has to pass the torch to someone who can.”…..

Count Adam Schiff among the ranks of House Democrats who won’t say whether they think Joe Biden should end his campaign.

But Schiff did encourage the president to seek an array of opinions on whether he should stay in the race:

Democrat Schiff says Kamala Harris could win ‘overwhelmingly’ against Trump if Biden drops out – live

Adam Schiff says president ‘either has to win overwhelmingly or he has to pass the torch to someone who can’

www.theguardian.com

 

[MT15]

I won't disagree that in 2022 Democrats seemed to overperform the polls, however, in 2020 based upon me looking back here at 538.com, I do not believe that Biden appears to have over-achieved on their forecast. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

I don't take the polls as gospel but I don't dismiss them either. I try to take them for what I believe they are, which is a somewhat accurate to somewhat inaccurate barometer of where things stand. And while I don't think Biden would necessarily be done done if he stays in, I do think the polls themselves are a cause for concern because if they're at all accurate he is in trouble.

What happened between 2020 and 2022 that may have skewed the polls? I remember . It has really been significant since the overturning of Roe, IMO. Add in that pollsters are struggling with the loss of their ability to tailor a survey to area codes, and people largely getting rid of land lines, and not answering cell phones, and we have unreliable polling. Much more so than some pollsters like to let on.

 

[Incumbent]

So we're now at the point where we're attacking the media. Seems very Trumpish.

Do you think a lot of the mainstream media is covering the candidates and issues equitably and in good faith at this point?

I expect the media to be critical of the politicians I support. Biden has faced criticism and analysis throughout his tenure (as have/do other elected officials) and I don’t remember any big outcry about that.

I think his health and fitness are fair game but there is a heavy bias that has taken over.

I’ve long been leery of corporate media and their agendas and motives. I have concerns about media literacy among consumers and the move towards 24 hour infotainment in place of journalism that adheres to ethical standards. I think there was a time when that was more prevalent than it is currently and I think it’s among the grave issues we are facing as a society.

 

[SamAndreas]

I don't see how Biden can stay in with all the momentum moving toward him not being the nominee.

Ben Smith began as a columnist at Politico back in 2008. He covered the Republicans as I recall. He only uses as much news as he has to, to frame his intended narrative.

Made up narrative is Smith's rice bowl. That's what he is and does. It's always biased towards his views of conservatism.

So you're a Republican who has some Republican narrative in hand, which is neither here nor there. This topic has morphed into an in house Democratic Party issue.

I'd be happy if you want to sit tight and watch it all unfold before your eyes. But to be blunt it's not your business.

 

[DaveXA]

I don't see how Biden can stay in with all the momentum moving toward him not being the nominee.

I'm pretty sure you stated clearly earlier in this thread that you wanted Biden to stay in? Now you're posting this? Lmao.

 

[bdb13]

What happened between 2020 and 2022 that may have skewed the polls? I remember . It has really been significant since the overturning of Roe, IMO. Add in that pollsters are struggling with the loss of their ability to tailor a survey to area codes, and people largely getting rid of land lines, and not answering cell phones, and we have unreliable polling. Much more so than some pollsters like to let on.

I agree that that seems to have been the turning point.

I'm just.. not going to be the least bit comfortable if we're having to count on a moderate polling error come election day. I get the trend since 2022, but still, I don't trust it to just be there for Biden.

 

[SamAndreas]

There's a small issue with your post. You stated that the media is not saying who that Democrat is, but the fact is that several names have been mentioned and quoted as at least being very concerned. They may not even be calling him to step down, but they are telling Joe he needs to allay people's concerns by showing that the debate was a fluke, and clearly few people believe it was simply an off night. Pelosi, Schiff and several others have already raised concerns. Several Democratic leaders are meeting at the Capitol today to discuss a way forward including House minority leader Hakeem Jeffries.

I really don't have a dog in this fight because I'll vote for that dog over Trump. But we need to have some objectivity about this and I feel like people are being motivated more by irrational fear than good sense.

I think I covered your small issue when I created a context surround which was limiting the scope of my narative. That's where I was talking about clickbait. Giving the media a best case possible alternate explanation, basically that being they are only intending to go after headline clickbait, which while being unsavory is petty. That worst alternate possibility that they are being actual players in politics, it not being as benign. That latter being a serious offence which deserves a robust shelling of Fort Media to get their attention.

That WP headline I gave as example did in the article give that persons name, but only after one had clicked on it, and had already been affected by that unsavory BS of trumpeting small potatoes for sale, as if they were big potatoes.

Shrill stuff, real shrill.

None of the four names I'm aware of who have thus far called on Biden to bow out are significant folks amoung the Democratic lobby in Congress. I had to look up every one of them to see who they are.

 

[Greg]

I think you are halfway there.

He should see this election through because we will lose it to the Criminal if he doesn't. And then after February 20, resign turning it all over to Harris as our founders intended it to be when they created the office of the VP. And when they built a house in DC for the VP to live in.

I’m talking about what should happen not some scheme for your party of preference to hold power.

He should resign. Kamala should be president. She should run against trump. The voters decide the next president.

 

[DaveXA]

Fwiw, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy was just on CNN saying that this week is pivotal for Biden and that the interview, which was recorded and edited was not enough to allay concerns and that Biden needs to get out and show that he's up to the task and suggested a live town hall meeting. I'd be all for that. He clearly supports Biden and he's also clearly concerned about the situation with the campaign.

 

[DaveXA]

I think I covered your small issue when I created a context surround which was limiting the scope of my narative. That's where I was talking about clickbait. Giving the media a best case possible alternate explanation, basically that being they are only intending to go after headline clickbait, which while being unsavory is petty. That worst alternate possibility that they are being actual players in politics, it not being as benign. That latter being a serious offence which deserves a robust shelling of Fort Media to get their attention.

That WP headline I gave as example did in the article give that persons name, but only after one had clicked on it, and had already been affected by that unsavory BS of trumpeting small potatoes for sale, as if they were big potatoes.

Shrill stuff, real shrill.

None of the four names I'm aware of who have thus far called on Biden to bow out are significant folks amoung the Democratic lobby in Congress. I had to look up every one of them to see who they are.

Certainly, but far more than those 4 are absolutely concerned about what's going on with the Biden campaign right now.

I do agree with the click baiting, but that's been SOP for as long as I can remember.

 

[SamAndreas]

I’m talking about what should happen not some scheme for your party of preference to hold power.

He should resign. Kamala should be president. She should run against trump. The voters decide the next president.

A reasonable point. I was aware that I have a preference which is most likely to not be your preference. That's why I complimented you for being halfway there.

You were being more reasonable about it than most. While speaking with you, I was indeed more focused upon my own party persons who are posting in this thread insofar as my messaging. This is afterall an internal Democratic party matter which has morphed out of that presidential debate.

 

[bird]

I’m talking about what should happen not some scheme for your party of preference to hold power.

He should resign. Kamala should be president. She should run against trump. The voters decide the next president.

So, you don’t care that Trump would most likely beat Harris.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Incumbent]

Facing backlash from many of the people who made up their readership, it appears the New York Times has closed its account on Threads.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I agree that that seems to have been the turning point.

I'm just.. not going to be the least bit comfortable if we're having to count on a moderate polling error come election day. I get the trend since 2022, but still, I don't trust it to just be there for Biden.

I respect that you choose to trust the polls regarding Biden - Trump are accurate. That's each person's prerogative. The rest of my thoughts are general thoughts about the matter and are specific to you. My usage of you throughout the rest of this post is the general you.

I ask people to please recognize the difference between trusting that the current polls are accurate and believing that they are reliable proof of something.

If someone chooses the trust the polls that Biden is behind, they are acting out of trust and faith, not knowledge. I don't challenge people choosing to trust the polling numbers as reliable, but I'll will challenge anyone who quotes polls as if they are knowledge and/or definitive, reliable proof of what the majority of voters truly think and how they are actually going to vote.

And if someone wants to factor in the statistical trends of underestimating Democratic performance and overestimating Republican performance, that's cool and is their prerogative as well. Just don't tell others who do factor for those trends that that you're working from a more objective and fact based position than they are, because you're not.