First presidential debate (2 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

I'm not making an excuse, I'm saying that's what people are attracted to, for better or worse. To deny that is to deny reality.

I acknowledged that it's a reality of human nature. The point is that if someone just says "it's human nature" without also saying in some way that it's not good or we should do better, then it tacitly gives an excuse to the behavior, because it's "natural human behavior." Natural has an implication of being okay, acceptable, desirable or inevitable.

I wasn't saying you did anything wrong or said anything that was true. I was just trying to get across that if we want to change how we are as individuals and a society, then one of the things we have to do is start adding "but we need to be better than that" at the end of "it's natural to." My focus is on changing what we say and do moving forward to start cultivating and nurturing better human behavior to create a better society for all.

That said, certainly more goes into decision making than whether a candidate is strong and confident. It's certainly a factor that hurts Biden. Whether he overcomes that is an open question. He did fine in 2019-2020. We'll see if he's up to the task ahead in the next 3-4 months. I honestly hope he is because I can't deal with 4 years of an unhinged bat-shirt crazy Trump using his office to take revenge on his political opponents as he's promised he would. It's gonna be ugly to the point of civil war ugly.

I sincerely don't think I'll survive a Trump presidency and I don't think it's a safe assumption it would only be for 4 years.

 

[Heathen]

Making a negative comment here or there about Biden is not flooding the board. Constantly making negative comments about someone and reposting negative articles, videos or social media posts about them on a daily basis is flooding the board with negativity about that person.

And who has done this? Names, instances, all of the above.

I don’t agree with your assessment, but I’m curious as to how you came to this conclusion.

What you see as constant negativity could be the real mounting concern of others who care about the party just as much, but are restless with where things look to be headed.

 

[SamAndreas]

I would say this issue has been decided, resolved. Yesterday around noon Biden Tweeted this:



His official tweets since show me that he's going forward. Good for him, he's my President.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Maybe you guys would understand this discussion about Biden's senlity and ability to win is with the Liberal wing exclusively.

That is factually and verifiably false.

Trump and his supporters having been shouting both in the media and on this board that Biden is unfit and Democrats should kick him off the ballot. They've been shouting that since long before the debate and for much, much longer than any so called "Liberal wing."

Ever since the panic and feeding frenzy started after the debate, they have descended on the media and on this board like scavengers.

Look, ma, no personal attacks.

 

[LA - L.A.]

This campaign is seriously in trouble when the campaign basically gives you the questions to ask. This is why Biden sounds ok. He's rehearsing his responses...

Radio host who interviewed Biden says aides provided questions in advance | CNN Politics

Joe Biden’s team provided a list of questions to a radio host who interviewed the president this week in the aftermath of his debate performance, the host told CNN.

www.cnn.com

Every president and candidate has done, does and will continue to do that. It's standard operating procedure to give a list of questions that they would like asked. Reporters don't just exclusively ask those questions and they don't ask them all. The media is being dishonest in acting like it's something unusual. They know better.

Trump takes it a step farther than anyone else by insisting on only his questions being asked. When the reporter asks anything else he gets pissy, refuses to answer, then starts attacking people including the reporter.

If Biden's campaign is in "trouble" for this, then Trump's campaign is completely and absolutely doomed, if the media ever let's people know how bad Trump is about it.

 

[DaveXA]

I acknowledged that it's a reality of human nature. The point is that if someone just says "it's human nature" without also saying in some way that it's not good or we should do better, then it tacitly gives an excuse to the behavior, because it's "natural human behavior." Natural has an implication of being okay, acceptable, desirable or inevitable.

I wasn't saying you did anything wrong or said anything that was true. I was just trying to get across that if we want to change how we are as individuals and a society, then one of the things we have to do is start adding "but we need to be better than that" at the end of "it's natural to." My focus is on changing what we say and do moving forward to start cultivating and nurturing better human behavior to create a better society for all.

Sure, fair enough.

I sincerely don't think I'll survive a Trump presidency and I don't think it's a safe assumption it would only be for 4 years.

You and me both. I'd probably sell everything I own and move to Korea if that were feasible. But idk how I'd be able to work in that situation, so we'll cross that bridge after the election.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Yeah and in addition to that, every poll is basically a one-off anyway.. shouldn't read too much into any single one but rather have to look at the overall trends to ascertain any real value from them.

True and is why when people look at polls they need to remember the consistent overall trend that has been running through every election for the past several elections and held true in the recent primaries.

That trend is that Democrats and progressives consistently outperform polls by at least 5% in the actual elections, and Republicans and conservatives consistently unperformed polls by at least 5% in the actual elections.

When you look at a poll, you need to add 5% to all the Democratic candidates and subtract 5% from all of the Republican candidates, because that's how the polling vs actual voting has consistently been for several election cycles.

 

[LA - L.A.]

My take is the complaint is about the media, which should be covering both candidates more or less the same. I know they are not, however. It is unclear why.

It isn’t pro-Trump as much as it is letting him skate for stuff they are absolutely going off on Biden about. I don’t know exactly why they are not beating Trump up about his insane rants, falling asleep every day in court, backing Project 2025 and then saying he doesn’t know anything about it, etc. He is being treated as a viable candidate, and deferred to in so many ways by the press.

Hell, they aren’t even mentioning his appearance in the Epstein transcripts that were just released at all.

For me, it's that the news outlets don't apply the same standards of analysis and critique when covering Biden and Trump. That's were they're miserably failing for whatever reason. They are ranting about Biden being unfit, but don't say squat about how much more unfit Trump is or that Trump is vastly more dangerous.

Biden may be unfit, but even if unfit, Biden would not be a danger to our democracy if re-elected. Our democracy will be destroyed if Trump is re-elected.

That's what the choice between Biden and Trump comes down to. If you want to keep our democracy, then vote for Biden. If you want to destroy our democracy, then vote for Trump. If you want to roll the dice on whether or not we lose our democracy, then vote third party or not at all.

That is the choice every voter will face if Biden stays in the race. Voters can delude themselves and rationalize all they want, but those are the only three choices grounded in reality that voters have. I can't wait until the Biden questioned is resolved so that we can turn the focus back on that reality. One of the reasons that Trump and the Heritage Foundation keeps stoking the controversy and panic around Biden, is to distract voters from the reality of the choices they will have to make.

 

[bdb13]

True and is why when people look at polls they need to remember the consistent overall trend that has been running through every election for the past several elections and held true in the recent primaries.

That trend is that Democrats and progressives consistently outperform polls by at least 5% in the actual elections, and Republicans and conservatives consistently unperformed polls by at least 5% in the actual elections.

When you look at a poll, you need to add 5% to all the Democratic candidates and subtract 5% from all of the Republican candidates, because that's how the polling vs actual voting has consistently been for several election cycles.

I won't disagree that in 2022 Democrats seemed to overperform the polls, however, in 2020 based upon me looking back here at 538.com, I do not believe that Biden appears to have over-achieved on their forecast. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

I don't take the polls as gospel but I don't dismiss them either. I try to take them for what I believe they are, which is a somewhat accurate to somewhat inaccurate barometer of where things stand. And while I don't think Biden would necessarily be done done if he stays in, I do think the polls themselves are a cause for concern because if they're at all accurate he is in trouble.

 

[LA - L.A.]

You and LA-LA need to figure out a way to express opinions, and debate topics. You both regularly engage in attacking the person holding the opinion instead of the opinion itself.

You mean we shouldn't say things like, "you're gaslighting yourself, you're huffing copium, you're delusional, that's not a good look, you're horrible to say that," and falsely accusing people of saying things to you that they didn't say. Are those the type of personal attacks against "the person holding the opinion instead of the opinion itself" that people should avoid?

I'm asking for a fellow poster who does all those things.

I think you both should bow out of this thread all together.

Of course you do, because you don't like us treating you the same way you treat people who disagree with you. You started the personal attacks, buddy, and you've keept them up while hypocritically criticizing others for it. Don't shovel out what you can't handle.

In case it's not clear, I'm not going anywhere. If you don't like me being here...well, all I can say is...you don't have to come here.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Yes, here's a couple of Tweets, the first of which touches on that. She turned off MSNBC.

The thoughts and choices of a typical American voter and not some blowhard pundit in the news or on a message board.

My hairdresser today: "I don't watch the news. It raises my blood pressure. I'm voting for Biden and ignoring the noise."

I just changed the channel @MSNBC because after Biden said he's staying, @chrislhayes keeps the "Maybe he'll step down" bullshirt. Chris needs to listen to @Lawrence and stop damaging our ONLY shot at saving democracy. Shame on you, Chris.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Maria Shriver has an opinion:

And for the people saying that criticism of lopsided media coverage is unjustified.

The media’s obsessively scrutinized every syllable, word, facial tick, etc about @POTUS, #Biden’s interview last night with #Stephanopoulos. But not one single word that #Trump refused to do the same interview. This unconscionable, dangerous double-standard has to stop…

 

[LA - L.A.]

And who has done this?

Not you. You haven't flooded this thread with a daily barrage of redundant negative comments, negative definitive proclamations, negative assumptions, negative speculations, negative articles, negative videos and negative social media posts about Biden.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I won't disagree that in 2022 Democrats seemed to overperform the polls, however, in 2020 based upon me looking back here at 538.com, I do not believe that Biden appears to have over-achieved on their forecast. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

I don't take the polls as gospel but I don't dismiss them either. I try to take them for what I believe they are, which is a somewhat accurate to somewhat inaccurate barometer of where things stand. And while I don't think Biden would necessarily be done done if he stays in, I do think the polls themselves are a cause for concern because if they're at all accurate he is in trouble.

It became more consistent and more pronounced in the elections, state and local elections included, in the election cycles and special elections after Roe was overturned.

If someone is going to use polling to form an opinion or support their opinion, then they need to adjust the poll numbers up and down based on these historical trends. Otherwise, they are choosing to ignore pertinent, historically verified data about current polling numbers, which means they are choosing to cherry pick data, instead of actually taking into account all of the data.

If polls start showing Biden down by 8% or more. Then I'll start getting nervous, because based on current polling trends, that would indicated Biden probably is in trouble with voters.

Everything else is just noise designed to distract us from how dangerous and much more terrible Trump is than Biden. That storm will blow over and fizzle out. The polling starting in Sept is the polling to use as a gauge, because that's when voting starts.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I would say this issue has been decided, resolved. Yesterday around noon Biden Tweeted this:



His official tweets since show me that he's going forward. Good for him, he's my President.

Let's see if anyone changes their position from Biden should drop out to Biden should be forced out now that he's made it clear he's not dropping out.

Let's see everyone stands by their claims that they will support and vote for Biden if he stays in.

 

[Heathen]

Not you. You haven't flooded this thread with a daily barrage of redundant negative comments, negative definitive proclamations, negative assumptions, negative speculations, negative articles, negative videos and negative social media posts about Biden.

Alrighty then.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So we're now at the point where we're attacking the media. Seems very Trumpish.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Adam Schiff, a House Democrat who is likely to become California’s next senator in the November election, said he thought Kamala Harris could win the election, if Joe Bidendrops out.

“The interview didn’t put concerns to rest. No single interview is going to do that,” Schiff said on NBC News. “And what I do think the president needs to decide is, can he put those concerns aside? Can he demonstrate the American people that what happened on the debate stage was an aberration?”

Referring to the vice-president, Schiff said, “I think she very well could win overwhelmingly, but before we get into a decision about who else it should be, the president needs to make a decision about whether it’s him.”

He added: “Either he has to win overwhelmingly, or he has to pass the torch to someone who can.”…..

Count Adam Schiff among the ranks of House Democrats who won’t say whether they think Joe Biden should end his campaign.

But Schiff did encourage the president to seek an array of opinions on whether he should stay in the race:

I think Joe Biden should take the time talk to people outside of his immediate circle, talk to people he respects, people with objectivity, people with distance, and make the right decision for the country.

More House Democrats reportedly want Biden to quit race as he pledges to ‘unite America’ – as it happened

Adam Schiff says president ‘either has to win overwhelmingly or he has to pass the torch to someone who can’

www.theguardian.com