First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    There isn't a single progressive in the list of potential replacements.
    I've noticed it's been sort of anyone but Kamala Harris.

    All of them I've seen mentioned so far are ones I would rate as leaning towards being progressives.


    All except for the few mentions there have been for Harris. Which have been few and far between.
     
    If you vote for Biden then YOU don't give a damn about our country. Right back at you. I expect Biden to step down so too many people are focusing on Steve voting for Trump....with Biden gone, Steve will NOT be voting for Trump.
    Doesn't make it Steve.

    If Biden must be gone for you to not vote for that bastage Criminal, then you're going to be voting for thar God damned Criminal. That's the math.

    God won't help you if you do that Steve. You are lost.
     
    I've noticed it's been sort of anyone but Kamala Harris.

    All of them I've seen mentioned so far are ones I would rate as leaning towards being progressives.


    All except for the few mentions there have been for Harris. Which have been few and far between.

    I don't know what you think of as a progressive, but the short list is of hopefuls:

    Harris
    Whitmer
    Newsom
    Shapiro
    Buttigieg

    None of those are progressives. Some more uninformed people might think Newsom is because of California. He is a centrist in the same way as Pelosi. He comes from money, and is/was related to Pelosi via marriage.
     
    What really did it for me is him telling the governors he needs more sleep at night and will stop scheduling events. You're president, Joe. Being available at night is a part of the job. If you can't function 24/7, it's time to call it quits.
    Grand Admiral, (probably not), you're a dude who needs a new forking avatar. Like now.

    Why don't you see to that before you come back. You got nothing to say until you deal with that.
     
    There is a huge contingent that believes Trump is unfit for office. All of these people now "hammering" Biden after the debate because they now see him as unfit for office. America somehow has to choose between a convicted felon, and a senile old man. There is a lot of anger about this being our only choices. There is a lot of anger at Biden, and everyone involved in his decision to run for a second term. What really angers people is the Democratic bench. It's viewed as deep, and wide. We had plenty of good options that were all robbed, along with the American people, of making their case to be Democratic nominee. This anger continues to pique as Joe Biden hides from the press, and make gaffs for the few minutes he does appear.

    It's ridiculous to try to attribute this to a tax evasion scheme by corporate media.
    J-Donk you've been a Republican for about a week now. How is it?
     
    I've seen the further left oriented media sourced do feeding frenzies about the Criminal's decline.

    I'm about to write the "Stop Biden" crowd off.
    The same here.

    I suspect they disliked Biden during the 2020 primary a lot and said similar kinds of things about him back then.
    You piqued my curiosity on that and I looked into. Here are few past thoughts from J-Donk, since he seems the most vocal and persistent to me. From the old board:

    1720246506876.png


    From this site in the run up to the 2020 election:

    The writing is on a wall that even a blind man could see it. I suspect a major focus on trying to smear Biden as hard as possible over the next 4 months. There is nothing for Trump to run on at this point: no economic, or social progress.

    It's amazing how well Biden is doing from his basement. I am still a huge skeptic, but Biden's strategy of not getting in the way of Trump's bumblings appears to be working.

    If this holds, Florida is going to be insanely tough win for Trump

    Below is regarding Reade accusing Biden of sexual assault.
    I don't get this. Reade his multiple people backing up her story, along with a court document. There were inconsistencies in both stories. Reade has far more corroborating evidence.

    I think this is the problem. I don't think she is lying. The mom calling in, the neighbors, and friends that recounting the story, and the divorce papers that mention an incident in his office. It's almost comical that some of you guys believe Ford over Reade at this point.

    Everyone seems to forget just how vicious the 2008 primary was between Obama, and Clinton. I believe we came out of that primary process with a stronger, more organized candidate because of it. I am not fan of this pillow fighting we have now.

    It's not just Tara Reade, a dozen OTHER women complained about the guy according to the WaPo in 2019. He did NOT apologize, only said essentially "Times are different I'll try not to be creepy." That's not a good look. He also left himself no wiggle room on the issue. His answer was this unequivocally did not happen. Yet, multiple sources now are pointing to something happened. Everyone is attacking Tara Reade's character, but Joe has a dubious history with the truth. Biden's lying, and plagiarism ended his 1988 campaign.

    This is only one issue as well. He is going to also have to answer questions about Hunter, and his own cozy relationship with big banks.

    My biggest issue right now. Where is the guy?

    I am very anxious about him as a candidate. I'm also not deluded in the fact that if he steps down, the replacement is going to be someone like Cuomo. Who is arguably worse if you are a progressive.

    This should be a slam dunk of an election. A botched crisis that has lead to record unemployment, and an economy in freefall. Biden isn't filling anyone with confidence right now.

    Keep in mind this was going into the 2020 election:

    I'm a progressive who voted for Bernie twice. ... Things that Biden should have been hammered on, and he will be in the GE: his corporate ties, allegations of wandering hands, plagiarism, and health/failing mental capacity.

    I saw poll were something like 25% of democrats think he should be replaced, 40 think he should stay, and the rest are in the "I don't know category". This is a problem that doesn't appear to be going away. There is absolutely no enthusiasm amongst Democrats for his candidacy. Why is hiding out in his basement?

    Most of these people are going to vote not out of love for Biden, but hate for Trump and his administration.

    If the left goes forward with the Biden nomination, Kavanaugh is owed a public apology from every single democratic senator at his confirmation hearing.

    If you truly believe that something unsavory did happen. ... When you lump all this in with Biden's role in the Clarence Thomas confirmation, and all the gropey stuff caught on camera over the years. That's an attack ad that almost writes itself.

    Again, this is from 2019, not 2024.

    I personally feel Biden is going to run into some issues if he doesn't win a bunch of states right of the bat. So far he isn't really polling like he will. You can't run as THANOS and start out losing. The more I see of him in debates, the less I like.

    Referring to Biden vs Trump in 2019

    Who wants to see two 75+ year old white guys with dementia argue about politics?

    I've emphasized what I think is most noteworthy. I see a whole lot of bitterness fueled rinse and repeat.
     
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    I understand the concern.

    I’m not tied to Biden. I’m as scared as anybody about a second Trump term.

    Count on this, though, if we get a replacement, the media and other critics, inside and outside the party, will find faults to harp on about that person, too. That is what has me leery in all this. Biden is old but has arguably been doing a good job, overall. Right now it’s age. Next, it’ll be whatever it needs to be.

    Yes I agree, the media is at best is determined to make this a neck to neck horse race. It's not, but they want to make it so, at best. At worst we might need to replace the media, but I don't think that can be done.


    I'm tied to Kamala Harris. If it isn't Joe, it better be Kamala. If it isn't Kamala in the event Biden drops out, then election results for an election I voted in are being overthrown by the equelevent of J-6th election deniers. We've been calling them terrorists.

    The Biden/Harris ticket won the primary race I voted in. There's no one but Harris in the event of Joe dropping out to go from, from here.

    Harris or Biden, if not Biden, then Harris. That's where I stand.
     
    It's not that. The Biden campaign in 2020 ran on competence. I remember the line "The adults are back in charge." The problem is that's no longer something he can run on. No one walked away from that debate thinking Joe was competent.

    I really do think he is going to lose, and probably by at least a few points. I will take any of the major hopefuls over him.
    What I'm I? You've said L'm on one.

    I walked away from that debate thinking Joe Biden was my president, and proud to have him be. I will vote for him.

    You're turning into a Republican as far as I'm concerned.
     
    You betcha, I and LA-LA can both continue to support BIden to our dear heart's content. I certainly will. I would think LA-LA will continue in this vein as well.

    "Deny the obvious," is what MAGA froths at their forumbs say when I tell them thing about Biden, which are similar to what I am saying to you now.
    I really wanted Warren to win the primary in 2020 and Biden was fourth on my list. I voted for Biden in the general election without a moments hesitation and never looked back. I'll do the same now.

    Some people choose to get stuck in the past and on the "now" that they want instead of accepting and dealing with the "now" that is. That's not an issue for me. I get out of my system whatever I feel about what wasn't, let go of it, and move to adapting to and dealing with the "now" that is.

    Adapt or perish has never been more prescient or pressing than it is right now. If not enough voters drown out all of the internal and external noise to focus on the big picture, real world consequences of this election, then our democracy and our right to live and the right to live will perish, literally overnight.
     
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    Yeah, except I have seen people on Twitter proposing he be the VP candidate under Harris.
    That would be something awful. Bernie doesn't know how to play second fiddle. He's not of vice presidential material.
     
    ...I'm as bad as MAGA...
    What makes your actions as bad and dangerous as Trump and MAGA is that all you do is hammer away at Biden's negatives and you do it constantly every day, while you say very little about all of Trump's negatives which by your own admission are far, far worse than Biden's negatives.

    That's what makes your actions as bad as MAGA's.

    You've said you'll still vote for Biden. You've said Trump is far worse. If you don't want your actions to be as bad as MAGA, then at least give equal time and effort to tearing down Trump as you do Biden. Every time you say something negative about Biden, say something even more negative about Trump.

    Everytime you say something negative about Biden, remind everyone he is still far better than Trump and you'll vote for him.

    If you only just keep constantly ailing and bagging on Biden without pointing how he's far better than Trump, without pointing out you'll still vote for Biden, and without railing and bagging on Trump equally, then yes, your actions are just like, just as dangerous and just as bad as MAGA's. It's got nothing to do with any purity tests. It has everything to do with how you choose to behave and what you exclusively focus on.
     
    Don't care waht the GOP thinks. I don't really care if the VP candidate is a moderate or progressive, I'll vote for Harris over Biden and Trump if it comes to that.

    Maybe, I'm not sure. Personally, I'd go with Newsom in the VP spot with Harris. Whether he'd be willing to do that, idk.

    They would attract swing voters and independents in droves, without a doubt. I'd bet my house that a Harris-Anti-Trump Republican would win the election in a landslide. It wouldn't be close.

    As I stated earlier, it's a pipe dream though. DNC ain't gonna allow that. I do think the best option is a moderate Democrat, but how effective that will actually be, idk.
    Harris will get to choose who her VP is in the event that Biden drops out.

    She would be most foolish to chose Newsom, they're both from the same state.

    If I were her and Biden dropped that into my lap, I would choose someone who wouldn't rey to climb over me to take the top spot.
     
    The same here.


    You piqued my curiosity on that and I looked into. Here are few past thoughts from J-Donk, since he seems the most vocal and persistent to me. From the old board:

    1720246506876.png


    From this site in the run up to the 2020 election:





    Below is regarding Reade accusing Biden of sexual assault.










    Keep in mind this was going into the 2020 election:











    Again, this is from 2019, not 2024.



    Referring to Biden vs Trump in 2019



    I've emphasized what I think is most noteworthy. I see a whole lot of bitterness fueled rinse a repeat.

    I voted for Biden in 2020. I'll vote for Biden 2024. I am a progressive, and wasn't a Biden supporter in the primaries.

    I don't understand this. I can't just hold an opinion that is shared with a massive amount of people in the Democratic party. You have sitting members of both of the House, and Senate who have the exact opinion as me. Do they not pass LA-LA purity test?

    You started with something personal trying to say my own family member having dementia is why I'm not supporter of Biden, and now this.

    What is wrong with you? You come across as unhinged.

    If you want to get into my post history, lets do that. Here is me defending Joe's cognitive ability before the debate.

    For anyone who actually cares, or thinks this is real. Biden did an hour long interview with Howard Stern this month. He sounded lucid to me. SFL why don't you watch it.



    Here is a pretty consistent opinion from me on Joe that seems prophetic now

    Biden is not 2012 Obama. My whole point is there no incumbent advantage. Biden is not communicating effectively from the presidential podium. This is coming from someone who will vote for Biden, but he should have been a one term president. He thought as much as one time. https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

    At this point, I would take Buttigieg, and as a progressive, he makes my skin crawl.

    Maybe I was already concerned with Biden's ability to communicate, and I saw that debate as a disqualifying event. That he should drop out. If you can't rebut my arguments, and go for purity test. It's over. You are lost in the sauce.

    What's even more hilarious is knowing the amount of post I've made defending Biden that you had to read, and still make this post.

    P.S. You better pray to God Biden doesn't drop out and wins. If not, I will make fun of you, and this post until the end of time.
     
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    All of what you said is your opinion and that’s fine. I disagree. I think Biden is a racist and a crook as well with a huge ego. I can see past R and D and be honest about both. I will probably be voting independent because Biden, Trump, Harris, AOC, Newsome, DeSantis, etc are all horrible people who shouldn’t be in charge of anything. Having to pick the lesser of 2 evils should never be a situation Americans should be in.
    I would suggest you write in Alina Gingertail.

     
    I’m not saying all of them, I said some of the news media is. Some are chasing clicks. What I am saying is use a little bit of healthy skepticism when sources are unidentified. I did that with the Trump stuff too. Here is a good example:

    The letters supposedly being circulated in Congress - a staffer for a D congressman wrote on Twitter that he nor his boss knew anything about it. He pointed out that the story used a single anonymous source supposedly a D staffer. (He’s not anonymous, his name is out there.) He didn’t say it wasn’t true- he just cautioned that reporters are under a lot of pressure right now to come up with news about Biden. They’re just people, they will try to save their jobs. They may run with a story that isn’t vetted up to their normal standards in this situation. Using a single anonymous source isn’t great journalistic practice.

    That’s all I’m saying. There’s a totally non-zero chance that the Dems would be making a huge mistake to force Biden out. There’s a totally non-zero chance they would be making a huge mistake if they don’t. It’s not as simple as some people are making it out to be.

    My guess is that a large portion of the GOP would LOVE to run against Harris rather than Biden. They’ve been bad-mouthing her in horrible, misogynistic, racist terms since 2020. Her poll numbers reflect the hit job they’ve already accomplished.

    But if Harris is pushed aside, I believe it will splinter the party. We cannot afford more Trump, we just can’t. I don’t want to rush into any huge decision here. And I feel like we are being absolutely rushed into it.
    If Harris is pushed aside It will insure that the Criminal wins.
     
    Because the pro-biden side of this argument is quickly devolving into personal insults.
    Dude, you fired the opening salvo on personal insults. Have you no sense of self-awareness at all.

    I disagreed with you from the beginning completely free of personal insults and after I said a few things you didn't like you hit me with this:

    You have got to stop. You have reached insane copium levels.

    You can huff that copium alone

    You started defensively hurling similar personal attacks at others like the whole "gaslighting yourselves" crap. Sometimes, you passive aggressively hurled them under the cover of aiming them at "this board," but sure, keep telling yourself that the "pro-Biden side" started the devolution into personal insults.
     
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