First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    So that’s a bit of hyperbole. But not entirely. Your response is exactly as I would have predicted. Completely dismissive.

    Politics affects everyone’s lives. I lost a neighbor due to Trump’s mishandling of the pandemic. She didn’t take it seriously - even though we all tried to convince her. My husband served with her on the neighborhood board. She was a very nice lady, a retired school principal. They wintered in Gulf Shores, and she came back from there with Covid that first year. She made it at first, but not without some permanent lung damage. She believed Trump - it’s nothing, it will go away. She thought it was silly to take precautions, it’s just the flu. She eventually died from her lungs failing her. We thought she was getting better, she came home on oxygen, until she went back in the hospital and she never came out.

    The day Trump won, I was sick to my stomach. I knew he was a monster. In 2019, I actually thought we almost made it through his presidency without a cataclysmic catastrophe. Well, we didn’t make it. There are approximately 400,000 excess deaths in the US from Covid. That is what Trump did.

    You can act like his presidency didn’t hurt people, but I know better. Most people know better.
    Agreed re: politics

    Iirc, it was Harold Lasswell (others may have said it too) that said politics is who gets what, where, when, how and why.

    And, of course, the term political economy is correct as well as accurate because that is how politics was viewed by many. The political process is inextricably linked with economy.

    Things done by politicians impact transactions for people who may have opposed those things done by politicians. The situation is made worse by the stupidity of the SCOTUS and multiple decisions regarding legalized bribery.
     


    That interview did not help:

    He refuses to drop out.
    He refuses to take a cognitive test.
    He just list accomplishments every time he is asked about his own fitness going forward. It comes across as pure ego.
    The disbelief that he is behind in polling.

    This answer was horrible:

    GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: And if you stay in and Trump is elected and everything you're warning about comes to pass, how will you feel in January?

    PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I'll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the goodest job as I know I can do, that's what this is about.
     
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    Hmm, I just reread your post. Now I am focusing on your final question.
    I don't see anything I like about Trump.
    I don't like him Dave.
    I have nothing good to say about him.
    My "whole thing" is driven by my fear of Biden in the Situation Room.
    He shouldn't be there.
    Trump would not be my first choice by a long shot but at least he knows we are in the year 2024.

    You sure about that?

    Or is this not going to matter because…it’s something else?

    If you’re not in to clicking and reading, Trump got his youngest son’s age wrong. Here’s the thing, though, EVERYBODY misspeaks from time to time. That, in and of itself, isn’t a problem. But you have to ignore a lot of awful and concerning statements, allegations, convictions, lawsuits, former administration officials outright denouncing him to think Trump is more trustworthy as President. It doesn’t wash.

    It would be more believable if you just admitted your version of religion aligns you with the Republican Party and candidates like Trump, and drop the laughable attempts to frame this as a well thought out effort at traveling the high road. Foolishness.

     


    More so it’s maddening that we have to do that because so many people are willing to vote for somebody like Trump. All the pressure is on one side.

    I think the unfortunate reality, though, is that we might have to recognize that Biden might be in an unwinnable position with his party. We can only win the election with a unified front and regardless of how any of us think we got here - I’m not taking pressure off the horrible way the media is covering this election - we don’t have the unity we need right now and I’m not sure if we can get there on this current course. Biden isn’t doing enough to help himself, I’m afraid.
     
    Just how I see it, but if you were true to yourself, you'd abstain like you said you would.

    But it's your conscience and your decision. I disagree with it is all I can say.

    I ask myself this simple question, would Biden and his supporters have attacked the Capitol had he lost the election, and the answer there is pretty obvious. And that's really the bottom line for me.
    Well we both have our priorities and I am glad we exchanged posts tonight. I am taking relatives to more tourism tomorrow. Leaving home by 8:30AM. Good night.
     
    You sure about that?

    Or is this not going to matter because…it’s something else?

    If you’re not in to clicking and reading, Trump got his youngest son’s age wrong. Here’s the thing, though, EVERYBODY misspeaks from time to time. That, in and of itself, isn’t a problem. But you have to ignore a lot of awful and concerning statements, allegations, convictions, lawsuits, former administration officials outright denouncing him to think Trump is more trustworthy as President. It doesn’t wash.

    It would be more believable if you just admitted your version of religion aligns you with the Republican Party and candidates like Trump, and drop the laughable attempts to frame this as a well thought out effort at traveling the high road. Foolishness.


    Yes, Trump is NOT a sharp sword himself. Republicans are just as delusional to ever suggest it.

    DOC RONNY JOHNSON
     
    More so it’s maddening that we have to do that because so many people are willing to vote for somebody like Trump. All the pressure is on one side.

    I think the unfortunate reality, though, is that we might have to recognize that Biden might be in an unwinnable position with his party. We can only win the election with a unified front and regardless of how any of us think we got here - I’m not taking pressure off the horrible way the media is covering this election - we don’t have the unity we need right now and I’m not sure if we can get there on this current course. Biden isn’t doing enough to help himself, I’m afraid.
    If a united front was guaranteed if Biden steps down, I would feel a whole lot better. I don’t trust that there will be such a thing.
     
    Well we both have our priorities and I am glad we exchanged posts tonight. I am taking relatives to more tourism tomorrow. Leaving home by 8:30AM. Good night.
    i asked him nicely 2x why do Biden’s gaffes disqualify him, but Trump’s gaffes do not. I guess he doesn’t have an answer.
     
    If a united front was guaranteed if Biden steps down, I would feel a whole lot better. I don’t trust that there will be such a thing.

    I agree. And I think some of this is the outcome of concerted efforts to undermine his support even before the debate. Biden could be spry and I still think there would be people looking for a way to get him off the ticket. Unfortunately, he’s given those people a reason and he’s not doing enough to create reassurance.

    If he’s replaced, the next candidate is going to have a really tough road, too.

    I already said it, but I still trust Biden to be able to do the job, and without any hesitation over the other guy. I’m not as confident that he can overcome all the challenges he’s facing as a candidate to be able to win the election.
     
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    Bill Clinton has a quote (not sure from when)

    Basically was this:

    “A lot of people prefer someone who is strong and wrong versus weak and right”

    I do believe that to be a sad truth

    IMG_8766.jpeg

    On the most recent episode of the podcast “The Focus Group,” host Sarah Longwell, an anti-Donald Trump Republican strategist, played audio clips from swing voters on how they viewed the election after June’s nauseating presidential debate.

    One woman started out by praising President Biden: “He does want to do what’s best for America. … He has every intent to do good for everyone,” before reluctantly pivoting to criticism: “He just may not be forceful enough to do that.”
The woman concluded by saying that she therefore would probably be voting for Trump.


    This maddening logic is the same rationale I’ve heard repeatedly from on-the-fence voters in my personal life.

    Do these voters like Trump or his policies? Not at all. And they think Biden’s policies are pretty great. But Biden just didn’t seem forceful enough. He looked a little wobbly. Frail.

    So instead of voting for the good guy who was perhaps too feeble to achieve all of his agenda, they plan to vote for the guy who was strong enough to deliver a completely different agenda, which they don’t even want.

    The guy who was strong enough to spew falsehoods with gusto, rather than the guy who was too glitchy to hold him accountable.


    It’s the presidency as a push-up contest, and after all we’ve been through, in the eyes of some Americans, the greatest evil isn’t being vile. It’s being weak……

     
    On the most recent episode of the podcast “The Focus Group,” host Sarah Longwell, an anti-Donald Trump Republican strategist, played audio clips from swing voters on how they viewed the election after June’s nauseating presidential debate.

    One woman started out by praising President Biden: “He does want to do what’s best for America. … He has every intent to do good for everyone,” before reluctantly pivoting to criticism: “He just may not be forceful enough to do that.”
The woman concluded by saying that she therefore would probably be voting for Trump.


    This maddening logic is the same rationale I’ve heard repeatedly from on-the-fence voters in my personal life.

    Do these voters like Trump or his policies? Not at all. And they think Biden’s policies are pretty great. But Biden just didn’t seem forceful enough. He looked a little wobbly. Frail.

    So instead of voting for the good guy who was perhaps too feeble to achieve all of his agenda, they plan to vote for the guy who was strong enough to deliver a completely different agenda, which they don’t even want.

    The guy who was strong enough to spew falsehoods with gusto, rather than the guy who was too glitchy to hold him accountable.


    It’s the presidency as a push-up contest, and after all we’ve been through, in the eyes of some Americans, the greatest evil isn’t being vile. It’s being weak……

    Put it this way, if Biden and Trump's demeanor were flipped, Biden would win in a landslide, and it wouldn't be close. The perception, whether deserved or not is that Trump is confident and strong while Biden is passive and frail. People are naturally attracted to a strong and aggressive leader. Perceptions in politics often matters more than what they've actually done.
     
    Biden’s still far and away, like miles and miles away, better than Trump. I think 98% or more (throwing out a guess) of Dems strongly and anxiously want him to win.

    For those of us who are “making age an issue”, we are still going to vote for the guy, we just are truly, deeply concerned that this is not looking good. And we share the anxiety with those of you who aren’t as concerned with his age or health. We don’t see promising data and are scrambling to know what to do. It’s not just doom and gloom to be pessimistic do nothing whiners.

    I’m in a state where Trump will win by a landslide. Other than my vote, and my spouse’s, what do normal people DO in this scenario to help this disaster not unfold?
    Every time you share your sincere and legitimate concerns about Biden, anywhere and everywhere you share them, also express again how he is infinitely better than Trump and you will still vote for him. It would be great if you also added that everyone else should vote for Biden too if he stays the candidate.

    Every time you talk about Biden's concerning polling, also talk about the fact that polls show 60% of people think that Trump is morally corrupt and unfit to serve as president.

    Don't flood the zone with just you're concerns about Biden's negative points, make sure you flood it equally with Trump's negative points that make him worse than Biden in every way.

    News media refuses to do that, so we have to make the extra effort to do it ourselves.

    Option 2 (More likely):
    Stick with Biden, start running brutal commercials like crazy about how GOP is criminalizing being a woman in regards to abortion, put Biden on whatever uppers you need to to get him SOTU like demeanor without ending him and have him fiery and intense, and maybe hope Trump scandals continue to multiply like roaches….
    The above in my preferred approach and I think the ad blitz should start two weeks before Sept 20th. That gives Trump the least amount of time to respond before voting starts on Sept 20th. It also gives less time for the general public to get into a "that's old news" mode.

    Idk guys, we need something. At this trajectory, something BIG has to change or Biden will lose in November. Polls don’t mean anything until they do.
    The only polls that mean anything is the actual voting. Democracts and progressives have been consistently out performing polls with actual voting by 5% or more for the past several election cycles.
     
    So she says he is fit, but what someone says about personal interaction is outweighed by what he portrays in public.
    When the observant has already made up their mind about the person they are observing in public, then how they perceive that person when in public is completely shaped by what the observant has already made up their mind about that person.
     
    I would think J-Donk is simply thrilled by your sudden wave of approval for him.

    :ROFLMAO:
    I know if Steve ever starts showing me the gushing support and approval he's showing J-Donk, I'm having a "wait a minute, I must be completely wrong about this" rethinking about what I'm saying and doing. Just like I would if it were Trump.
     
    I know if Steve ever starts showing me the gushing support and approval he's showing J-Donk, I'm having a "wait a minute, I must be completely wrong about this" rethinking about what I'm saying and doing. Just like I would if it were Trump.

    There is some serious overlap in the messaging of the people in the party who think Biden should step down, and the Republican campaign to highlight Joe's senility. I guess I'm smart enough to understand both of those exist, and one doesn't invalidate the other?

    I frankly don't care who agrees or disagrees with me on any given topic.
     

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