First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    You not listening to the news then, mt. Reports out of Trumpworld is that they want Biden and see him as weak and ruined. Why do you think that Trump's been mostly quiet. Are the news outlets now being played?
    You're not paying attention to what Trump said to people when he was being candid, because he didn't know he was being recorded. Trump wanted Biden out. He's been trying to get Biden out and he's taken a premature victory lap about getting Biden out.

    If Trump had shown in that very candid video that he wished Biden was still in and that he didn't want to go up against Harris, I would accept that and not be blinded by my biases and preconceived beliefs.
     
    He’s throwing his own VP under the bus by saying nobody can do what he can. It also sets him up in a bad place to endorse a replacement if that happens.

    When asked how he’ll feel if he stays in the race and Trump wins, knowing the dire consequences, he said (paraphrasing) he’ll feel good that he gave his all.

    That’s a bad answer and is going to resonate with people that he doesn’t fully accept what’s on the line.

    He’s confident in himself - and that’s fine and expected - but I expect this all falls flat with people who want him out of the race.
    I've always been more concerned about Biden's tendency for hubris and I'm still more concerned about that now.

    If he drops to 8 or more points below Trump in the polls, then I'll start being concerned that he might be losing to Trump. 8% because of the 3% margin of error plus the minimum 5% or more consistent underestimating of Democratic candidates by polling over the past few election cycles.
     
    The same here.


    You piqued my curiosity on that and I looked into. Here are few past thoughts from J-Donk, since he seems the most vocal and persistent to me. From the old board:

    1720246506876.png


    From this site in the run up to the 2020 election:





    Below is regarding Reade accusing Biden of sexual assault.










    Keep in mind this was going into the 2020 election:











    Again, this is from 2019, not 2024.



    Referring to Biden vs Trump in 2019



    I've emphasized what I think is most noteworthy. I see a whole lot of bitterness fueled rinse a repeat.
    Thanks, because you did it, now I don't need to.

    I've been pretty busy with 108 day time temperature, and a large forest fire during the last two days.
     
    And let’s be honest here Biden doesn’t care about you me or anyone else. His ego is as big as Trumps which is why he won’t step down. We have 2 idiots running for president and nobody has put up a half decent opponent to compete against either one of them.
    So who you voting for? I'm voting for Biden or whoever the Democratic candidate is. Who you got?
     
    All of what you said is your opinion and that’s fine. I disagree. I think Biden is a racist and a crook as well with a huge ego. I can see past R and D and be honest about both. I will probably be voting independent because Biden, Trump, Harris, AOC, Newsome, DeSantis, etc are all horrible people who shouldn’t be in charge of anything. Having to pick the lesser of 2 evils should never be a situation Americans should be in.
    You just answered my question of who you're voting for. You're obviously voting for Trump.
     
    The only people in serious contention are the ones I mentioned.

    I would be shocked honestly if it was anyone other then these four:

    Whitmer
    Newsom
    Shapiro
    Harris
    Why is Harris at the bottom of your list of names?

    She's at the top of the list. Everyone else are VP possibilities except for Newsom, and that is because he's not on that list.

    Who's this Shapiro? I don't know their pronouns, that person would have a serious name recognition problem I would think.
     
    I really don’t see how the interview moves the needle in Biden’s favor but if I’m wrong about that, great.
    Maybe the needle didn't move after the debate either, so there was no need for the interview to move the needle.
    I think it’s more likely going to increase pressure from within Democratic ranks. Biden is a decent man and means well, but I’m worried he’s dug in and not looking at everything clearly. Understand, I still share the concerns you have about making a change. I just came away from this interview feeling more so like we’re just moving closer to that. His answer on how he’d feel if Trump wins was bad. Really tone deaf to the dangers we are facing. At least that’s how is struck me.
    I think if he steps down and there's immediate unity, that could work.
    I think if he weathers this storm, this story will die out, that could work.
    I think if he steps down and there's division and petty jockeying for position, Trump wins.
     
    Lol, I wasn’t responding as if you are.

    I’m saying your reasoning is entirely hypocritical.

    You don’t won’t to vote for the guy who misspoke on the year but will vote for the guy who tweeted Covfefe, and says and posts the most absurd stuff on a regular basis.
    Biden says 2020 instead of 2024, get that guy the hell out of here.

    Trump says just a few days ago he was waging an assault on American democracy, it's alllll goooooooood.
     
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    You can’t be serious? You have stress related trauma from an election? If that’s the case you probably need to take a step back from politics. That’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard.
    Did that make you feel better about yourself now? You feeling like a big, strong man now? You proud of yourself for being a tough guy?
     
    Not good odds. Since polls have been wonky since 2015, I usually don't care too much unless there is a 5+ point difference. Biden is now behind by 6
    Biden’s slide in the polls since the debate puts him in a hole larger than all but two incumbents — who were both defeated for reelection — going back more than four decades.
    And no team won a Super Bowl after losing their final three regular season games, know what I mean? Just a bit a levity and positive nostalgia.
     
    You sure about that?

    Or is this not going to matter because…it’s something else?

    If you’re not in to clicking and reading, Trump got his youngest son’s age wrong. Here’s the thing, though, EVERYBODY misspeaks from time to time. That, in and of itself, isn’t a problem. But you have to ignore a lot of awful and concerning statements, allegations, convictions, lawsuits, former administration officials outright denouncing him to think Trump is more trustworthy as President. It doesn’t wash.

    It would be more believable if you just admitted your version of religion aligns you with the Republican Party and candidates like Trump, and drop the laughable attempts to frame this as a well thought out effort at traveling the high road. Foolishness.

    It's highly likely that taking a false high road comes part and parcel with his religious alignment. It's a feature, not a bug.
     
    More so it’s maddening that we have to do that because so many people are willing to vote for somebody like Trump. All the pressure is on one side.

    I think the unfortunate reality, though, is that we might have to recognize that Biden might be in an unwinnable position with his party. We can only win the election with a unified front and regardless of how any of us think we got here - I’m not taking pressure off the horrible way the media is covering this election - we don’t have the unity we need right now and I’m not sure if we can get there on this current course. Biden isn’t doing enough to help himself, I’m afraid.
    Yeah, we have to deal with the situation we haven and not the situation we won't. Getting the candidates we individually want is not as important as us all getting behind whichever candidate we get.

    I'm more concerned about that not happening than I am about any of the individual candidates.

    I only know of one race were a candidate was switched this late in the campaign. That replacement candidate lost, partially because there was a lot of fighting and division.

    Can anyone cite a historical example of when a party switched candidates this late and won?

    I'll say this, if Biden is replaced everyone better hope that Biden glowingly endorses them, because if he doesn't, I think Trump wins and we're screwed.
     
    On the most recent episode of the podcast “The Focus Group,” host Sarah Longwell, an anti-Donald Trump Republican strategist, played audio clips from swing voters on how they viewed the election after June’s nauseating presidential debate.

    One woman started out by praising President Biden: “He does want to do what’s best for America. … He has every intent to do good for everyone,” before reluctantly pivoting to criticism: “He just may not be forceful enough to do that.”
The woman concluded by saying that she therefore would probably be voting for Trump.


    This maddening logic is the same rationale I’ve heard repeatedly from on-the-fence voters in my personal life.

    Do these voters like Trump or his policies? Not at all. And they think Biden’s policies are pretty great. But Biden just didn’t seem forceful enough. He looked a little wobbly. Frail.

    So instead of voting for the good guy who was perhaps too feeble to achieve all of his agenda, they plan to vote for the guy who was strong enough to deliver a completely different agenda, which they don’t even want.

    The guy who was strong enough to spew falsehoods with gusto, rather than the guy who was too glitchy to hold him accountable.


    It’s the presidency as a push-up contest, and after all we’ve been through, in the eyes of some Americans, the greatest evil isn’t being vile. It’s being weak……

    Way too many treat voting for president like voting for reality show contestants.
     
    People are naturally attracted to a strong and aggressive leader.
    Biological holdout urges from our earliest development as a species, sure. Biologically, we also have spent hundreds of thousands of years evolving this things called intellectual and emotional awareness that's supposed to help us overcome our primitive urges to make healthier and smarter decisions.

    You know what else is completely natural, taking a dump whenever you get the urge and wherever you get the urge. Do that and wait for someone to say "people naturally want to take a dump whenever they get the urge and wherever they get the urge." I much rather people dump all over the place than dump all over our rights. One is considered inexcusable and the other is excused and apologized for.

    We've got to stop using the "people are naturally" to excuse and make apologies for people dysfunctionly and impulsively following their primitive urges at the expense of others if we're going to make it as a species, let along a country.
     
    There is some serious overlap in the messaging of the people in the party who think Biden should step down, and the Republican campaign to highlight Joe's senility.
    Lighten up, dude. It was obviously a joke.

    I guess I'm smart enough to understand both of those exist, and one doesn't invalidate the other?
    Apparently, you weren't smart enough to realize it was a joke.
     
    I voted for Biden in 2020. I'll vote for Biden 2024.
    That you'll vote for the Democratic candidate, even if it's Biden, is the most important thing for you to keep saying when you say you want Biden out.

    I don't think it's a problem if you say both. I only think it's a problem if you just repeat that you want Biden out without also repeating that you will still vote for him, because voting for Trump or not voting at all is not an option if we want to save our democracy.

    Do they not pass LA-LA purity test?
    No such purity test exists.

    You started with something personal trying to say my own family member having dementia is why I'm not supporter of Biden, and now this.
    I honestly don't remember saying anything like that to anyone. Would you please quote where I said something like that to you?

    What is wrong with you?
    Nothing's wrong with me. I'm just concerned and a bit anxious about this election like we all are, including Trump and his supporters. I just see it differently than you do and have different concerns.

    P.S. You better pray to God Biden doesn't drop out and wins. If not, I will make fun of you, and this post until the end of time.
    All I care about is Biden winning. If Biden wins, then I'll ecstatically help you make fun of me. If Biden loses, then we'll all have bigger fish to fry than you making fun of me for something I said here.

    Final and most important thought:

    Every time you share you concerns about Biden, please also remind everyone that you will still vote for Biden if he's on the ballot, because Trump's flaws are by far worse and more dangerous than Biden's and please encourage everyone else to vote for whoever is the Democrat candidate, even if they have concerns about them.

    Keep your eye on the real prize and the real prize is defeating Trump, not getting the Democratic candidate that we individually want onto the ballot.
     
    Newsweek is doing a list of actual Democratic members of Congress who have called for Biden to step aside. It’s 4. They also have a list of Democratic pundits and media members. It’s a lot more than 4 although I didn’t count them.

    I agree with Lichtman here.

     

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