First presidential debate (6 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[SamAndreas]

Yeah, we have to deal with the situation we haven and not the situation we won't. Getting the candidates we individually want is not as important as us all getting behind whichever candidate we get.

I'm more concerned about that not happening than I am about any of the individual candidates.

I only know of one race were a candidate was switched this late in the campaign. That replacement candidate lost, partially because there was a lot of fighting and division.

Can anyone cite a historical example of when a party switched candidates this late and won?

I'll say this, if Biden is replaced everyone better hope that Biden glowingly endorses them, because if he doesn't, I think Trump wins and we're screwed.

No.

I remember the opposite. George McGovern and Richard Nixon. McGovern came in late because our candidate had been assassinated during dinner.

You would have thought there would have been a bit of a break given to the guy. Oh no, he didn't even win the electoral votes in his own state. the three electoral votes I recall he got were from DC, not a state. I don't remember him winning even one state.

So that might explain why I think the change Biden out now crowd are absolutely crazed folk. I mean I am now considering J-Donk along with the likes of MAGA be it for his stubborn stand. A couple other folks around here are not far behind him in my book. Nope.

To me there is not a difference when crazy is the diagnosis. Don't change horses in the middle of the stream. That's crazy.

In Ukraine that's the situation right now. Zelenskyy is delaying elections until the war is over, and I totally understand his reasoning. It's an inopportune time for an election right now. They have to get through the war in one piece, and their leader is one of those essential pieces. He was the man who didn't take up the USA offer to save his neck though sending him an airplane.

Here watch this. Volodymyr Zelenskyy plays a piano with his penis in front of a crowd of what looks like thousands. After that he won the presidential election. What a leader. Churchill was a piker compared to him.



And this:

 

[LA - L.A.]

What's horrible is I know you read this post when you decided to dig through every post on this topic. Why did you ignore this?

I wanted to see what you said about Biden leading up to the election in 2020, so I searched your posts across every thread for the word Biden that was posted before Nov, 1st 2020. I didn't see your post you're referring too, because you made it in 2022 which was outside of my search parameters.

I never saw your post in July of 2022 about your family member having dementia.

This is a great example of how you jump to inaccurate conclusions, based on incorrect assumptions and misreading of things and then you convince yourself that you are 100% definitively correct about what you are actually mistaken about.

I spent a lot of time combing through the posts after your post in Jul 2022 to see if I ever responded to it. I did not.

This is the only exchange I could find between you and me regarding dementia.

I said the highlighted part in the post below:

You replied to the highlighted part above with your post I quoted below in my response to you:

If that's what you're referring to, then you misinterpreted what I was saying. I said I thought you were blinded by your biases, but it had nothing to do with you having a family member afflicted with dementia. I didn't even know if you had a family member afflicted with dementia which is why I asked you if someone in your family ever had dementia and if you did if any of your family members had any delusions or denials about it.

I don't recall you ever answering my question, because I wasn't aware that you did have someone in your family who had dementia. My apologies if I touched up any painful memories or feelings.

Not a good look, LA-LA.

It's not the look you seem to think it is.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I say this respectfully as I can. You need to go outside and touch grass.

I get why you would say that. Punctuation matters.

I meant to type "You want Trump to win?" not "You want Trump to win." That one little typo completely changes what I intended to say. Thanks for pointing it out. I corrected it.

 

[zztop]

I went to sleep and this topic blew up 5+ pages

 

[MT15]

At this point I doubt there is anything Biden could do or say to “clear the bar”. Trump, on the other hand, is being held to no such “bar”. It’s nonsensical. He could get up on the table and tap dance while reciting the Gettysburg Address from memory and it wouldn’t prove anything to the media.

 

[Heathen]

I get the opposite impression and think you misunderstood what he was saying.

First off he clearly stated that he got Biden out of the race and seemed thrilled about it. If he was more afraid of Harris he wouldn't be thrilled about getting Biden out. That's not how Trump rolls. He's thrilled he thinks he got what he wanted which is Biden gone. Trump only wants what he thinks is best for him, so he thinks Biden being out is what's best for him.

I understood what he was saying. I just think that’s Trump speak and deep down the thought of having to face a younger Democrat is more challenging to him.

I don’t think anyone really knows, that’s just my theory.

Second, Trump does say regarding Harris, "I think she's going to be better," followed immediately by "she's so bad, she's so pathetic" and a few more insults I won't quote. I think he means Harris is going to be better for him, not that Harris will be better than Biden. Trump wouldn't want Biden out and Harris in if he was more worried about Harris than Biden. That's not how Trump thinks.

Yeah again, I don’t know and could easily be incorrect. He could just be trying to convince himself, which was what I was getting at above.

I don’t think it’s going to happen (Biden being asked to step aside) but I’m hearing more rumblings about this meeting next week, so we’ll see.

 

[Heathen]

Every time you share your sincere and legitimate concerns about Biden, anywhere and everywhere you share them, also express again how he is infinitely better than Trump and you will still vote for him. It would be great if you also added that everyone else should vote for Biden too if he stays the candidate.

Meh. I’ll just add my thoughts as I have them. Never really liked the idea of dictating what others say. I wouldn’t apply that to you or anyone here.

I think it’s easy to see what appear to be “negatives” in a situation where they are more so very legitimate concerns. At least in this thread from what I’ve seen, it’s been around concerns of Biden’s acuity and ability to lead for the next 4 years. It only hurts the party if someone refuses to step down if there’s a better option (is that the case? we will see) in an election cycle against this opponent. Is it fair to Biden? I don’t know that. Maybe not. Unfortunately, you have to pull out all the stops to beat a guy like this.

I don’t think that’s equivalent to flooding the board with negativity. I haven’t seen anyone who’s Democratic in their voting tendencies at least imply that they wouldn’t be voting for Biden because of this problem, and don’t think that should be assumed.

 

[DaveXA]

Biological holdout urges from our earliest development as a species, sure. Biologically, we also have spent hundreds of thousands of years evolving this things called intellectual and emotional awareness that's supposed to help us overcome our primitive urges to make healthier and smarter decisions.

You know what else is completely natural, taking a dump whenever you get the urge and wherever you get the urge. Do that and wait for someone to say "people naturally want to take a dump whenever they get the urge and wherever they get the urge." I much rather people dump all over the place than dump all over our rights. One is considered inexcusable and the other is excused and apologized for.

We've got to stop using the "people are naturally" to excuse and make apologies for people dysfunctionly and impulsively following their primitive urges at the expense of others if we're going to make it as a species, let along a country.

I'm not making an excuse, I'm saying that's what people are attracted to, for better or worse. To deny that is to deny reality.

That said, certainly more goes into decision making than whether a candidate is strong and confident. It's certainly a factor that hurts Biden. Whether he overcomes that is an open question. He did fine in 2019-2020. We'll see if he's up to the task ahead in the next 3-4 months. I honestly hope he is because I can't deal with 4 years of an unhinged bat-shirt crazy Trump using his office to take revenge on his political opponents as he's promised he would. It's gonna be ugly to the point of civil war ugly.

 

[DaveXA]

I understood what he was saying. I just think that’s Trump speak and deep down the thought of having to face a younger Democrat is more challenging to him.

I don’t think anyone really knows, that’s just my theory.

I feel the same way. Trump wants Biden because he's the easiest path to victory in his own mind. I wouldn't put too much stock into any given comment he makes. He rambles a lot, and thinks out loud, much of it just his musings. Trump is not someone you apply logic to, lol.

Yeah again, I don’t know and could easily be incorrect. He could just be trying to convince himself, which was what I was getting at above.

indeed.

I don’t think it’s going to happen (Biden being asked to step aside) but I’m hearing more rumblings about this meeting next week, so we’ll see.

I think nothing is going to be decided until the convention. The convention will be a mess because you're gonna have a lot of people behind the scenes trying to sort out the best path forward. Once the convention is done, they all have to unite behind whoever is formally nominated.

 

[bdb13]

I found this to be a pretty good summary of why we are where we are:

...
Behind the scenes: Axios' Alex Thompson, the most deeply sourced reporter on the Biden beat, has chronicled, day after day, the number of longtime staff and top Democratic officials who feel deeply angry and misled. These are the president's fans, many on his payroll.

• Lawmakers and top Democrats feel duped by Biden … his press office … his campaign co-chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg … his top aides. They all promised the president was sharper than ever.

The media might be Biden's biggest problem of all. It is a fair conservative critique that many reporters ignored obvious signs of cognitive decline. Yes, there are exceptions: Axios, The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.

• But one tell: Rarely did other outlets follow our exclusive reporting on accommodations for Biden's aging — shorter hours for public appearances, fewer improvisational or late-night moments, and the rise in handlers and devices to help avoid tripping and falling. Some reporters enabled the White House by piling on reporters on social media who questioned Biden's lucidity.
  ...

Some of Biden's own staff is replaying in their heads the past few years, wondering if Biden's decline was purposely hidden, Alex reports. These staffers wondered why people in roles that typically brought access were kept away. They assumed Biden was a proud, private man, more comfortable with family.

• Post-debate, they see things differently. Some feel this was a big, orchestrated effort to conceal the episodic moments of concern. In hindsight, they say it's clear Biden needed help recalling people or events, and getting sufficient rest to handle big moments.

There were so many early signs. Biden rarely did tough interviews — much, much fewer than his predecessors. It was almost always friendly questions on friendly terrain. Presidential scholar Martha Kumar has data showing Biden has given about one-third as many formal press conferences and interviews as former President Trump at this point in their first term — and the fewest formal news conferences of any president since Ronald Reagan.

• Biden routinely mangled words, forgot mid-thought what he was saying, and once gave a shout-out to a dead person. When Thompson or other reporters pushed on this, White House press staff denied things that were self-evident. Then the reporters were torched by Biden-friendly tweeters on X.
• The denials — including the favorite line that Biden works so hard he exhausts the youngsters — strained credibility then, and look ludicrous in retrospect. The report by special counsel Robert Hur (who called Biden "a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory"), and the release of the transcript of his interview with Biden, was a great example of pervasive denialism. Thompson honed in more on Biden's memory lapses than others in the mainstream media in a story headlined, "Biden had repeated mental lapses during special counsel interview: transcript."
• Then the debate happened. The common refrain that it was one bad night strikes most outside of the Biden bubble as inconceivable. In truth, some people close to Biden were worried about him during debate prep. He was tired and had a failing voice — hardly on his game. Some in the room knew it could be bad — but not this bad.

It's the wild post-debate excuses that have unnerved Democrats the most. First, it was a cold. Then, much ado about nothing. Then, Ron Klain's fault. Then, the entire debate prep team. Then, one bad, overhyped night. Then, jet lag — 11 days after traveling. Then, mere evidence he needs to go to bed earlier.

• Now, Biden supporters are blaming the media for the feeding frenzy. This might be the hardest thing to control. Hell has no fury like a press corps deceived. Reporters feel duped — and some probably embarrassed —and are scrambling to unearth new evidence of decline.

Olivia Nuzzi, New York Magazine's Washington correspondent, offered a candid explanation for what she called a "conspiracy of silence to protect Joe Biden." She said a growing number of Democrats, starting a few months ago, confided to her off the record about an alarming decline in Biden's mind and appearance:

• "They needed to talk about it (though not on the record). They needed to know that they were not alone and not crazy. Things were bad, and they knew things were bad, and they knew others must also know things were bad, and yet they would need to pretend, outwardly, that things were fine. The president was fine. The election would be fine. They would be fine."
• It wasn't until the debate that they felt comfortable letting her go public with their (still anonymous) concerns: "Up close, the president does not look quite plausible. It's not that he's old. We all know what old looks like. ... The president was something stranger, something not of this earth."

• https://www.axios.com/2024/07/06/biden-abc-interview-democrats-support

 

[bdb13]

Angie Craig is now the 5th Democratic representative to call for Biden to step aside.

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/06/angie-craig-biden-withdraw-minnesota-swing-district

 

[SFIDC3]

I've seen this comment multiple times on this board, and it's not true. The Trump trial was all over the news.

The only explanation for above is delusion....you have to be fing joking.....Trump rambles on about nonsensical stuff in nearly every speech/rally and has never once been suggested he step down.....you have to be kidding with this garbage....

 

[bird]

Well, let me congratulate the media for their utter failure. Jefferson would be beating his head against the wall.

Trump is an utter lunatic who rambles, talks about sharks and battery operated boats and other assorted nonsense while everything for the last several months from the media has been “Biden is too old”.

Imo, the media WANTS Trump to stay in and maybe even secretly hopes he wins because they think it will help with ratings and clicks. They no longer care about doing their jobs.

Btw, Biden is too old. I will be voting for him but I think that the job will likely kill him or cause him to resign before finishing his second term should he win. The job is too stressful. It is too hard and, if done by someone who actually gives a damn, it ages you quickly. I wish it were not the case but I think it is what it is. It is interesting to note that Queen Elizabeth, yes, I know that the situations are not equivalent, seemed to be in better shape longer. That is not an insult to Biden. Sometimes some people just seem to age faster as they get older.

The bottom line is I will vote for Biden and any other Democratic candidate no matter the office. The Republican Party is bent on destroying the country.

 

[bdb13]

The only explanation for above is delusion....you have to be fing joking.....Trump rambles on about nonsensical stuff in nearly every speech/rally and has never once been suggested he step down.....you have to be kidding with this garbage....

I think the biggest difference is that Trump inclined voters eat that shirt up from him and so any calls that have ever happened for Trump to step down have really only come from the left and thus fallen deaf ears.. and are rendered pointless.

Whereas with this, people inclined to vote for Biden are not eating this shirt up and are extraordinarily concerned that it's about to hand back the White House to Trump on a platter.

 

[SFIDC3]

It will come out. I would venture to guess that’s why he doesn’t want to give up his spot. His son’s problems are just starting and it’s obvious his dad was aware and involved in his wrongdoing and you can bet the republicans are going to go full steam ahead after the Biden family. It won’t end well for any of them. Everyone said Trump was a crook before he even went to trial and now people are saying the same about the Bidens. It will come out.

Evidence (which you don't have because it doesn't exist) or f off.....above is a troll post....a pathetic attempt to make this a both sides narrative.....

 

[CoolBrees]

Are people still under the impression that what Trump says and does matters?

Why? At what point are people who are living in hope that the press, voters etc don't care what he says or does?l are going to hold him accountable? It isn't going to happen because nobody cares that is voting that way. They are unsalvageable.

He's getting 70+ million votes. Again.

I have serious doubt Biden can turn out anyone now. Last time l voted against Trump and voted for Biden (I supported Warren last time and nobody in '16). I will vote against him again, regardless of the opponent as there isn't a nearly left enough for me (including Bernie).

But that's because I am a good American and vote what is best for the country, not myself. Voting your own self interest is selfish and un-American.

So I don't care who takes him on. Don't care at all.

World War III is the result if Trump wins - end of human civilization. Within months.

I will vote for a dead person or a dog before Trump. He is the dumbest person to ever hold the office. One of the stupidest people to live if you ask me. His followers are the only ones dumber than him.

Biden has exceeded my expectations as president. But he has the same rules that everyone other than Trump has.

Biden is seen by the overwhelming majority of Americans as unfit to serve now. If he is staying in the race, he needs to do town halls, etc as much as possible to turn that tide just enough to turn out people in places like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Before the dumpster fire that was the last debate, I thought that we were headed to a comfortable win. I don't think that way any more.

I fear apathy more than Trump however. The whole "these two choices are both awful so I won't vote." 2016 on steroids. That is how Trump wins.

Trump was always unfit to serve. He is a coward and not worth of title if CiC.Trump Is unfit without the fact he raped 12 year old girls, the multiple failed business and 34 criminal convictions for paying off porn stars. He is too stupid to be president. Only his mouth breathing followers have lower IQs.

All of them are unsalvageable. I wish we could have a modern day Robespierre to deal with him and everyone who enabled his rise.

But we don't and we are in the precipice of the end of humanity.

The DNC needs to be doing whatever they can to figure out to put a coherent message together on the plan. Whatever it is. Like on Monday.

There needs to be calm. But there needs to be action more.

 

[SFIDC3]

I think the biggest difference is that Trump inclined voters eat that shirt up from him and so any calls that have ever happened for Trump to step down have really only come from the left and thus fallen deaf ears.. and are rendered pointless.

Whereas with this, people inclined to vote for Biden are not eating this shirt up and are extraordinarily concerned that it's about to hand back the White House to Trump on a platter.

I'm talking about the media.....here.....because folks are influenced by it and it has been mostly pro Trump/anti Biden for months now......

To me it's the height of irony, the majority of the media is all about profit over anything else, that has been made abundantly clear, so incredibly short sighted....so they want to keep Trump in the headlines, helping him as it were.....the irony is if he is re-elected (which I have to think/hope he won't be) he very well could destroy/dismantle the media as we know it as a result.....

 

[bdb13]

I'm talking about the media.....here.....because folks are influenced by it and it has been mostly pro Trump/anti Biden for months now......

To me it's the height of irony, the majority of the media is all about profit over anything else, that has been made abundantly clear, so incredibly short sighted....so they want to keep Trump in the headlines, helping him as it were.....the irony is if he is re-elected (which I have to think/hope he won't be) he very well could destroy/dismantle the media as we know it as a result.....

I just.. do not really perceive that the anti-Trump elements that have existed in the media having now flipped to pro-Trump.

Biden is getting criticism from areas that he wasn't previously but I think he was generally being treated with kid gloves by "the media" (whatever that even is as a catch-all nowadays) in regards to his obvious age-related issues up until the lid blew off at the debate.