First presidential debate (6 Viewers)

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Optimus Prime

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Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

 
You believe unsupported and vague rumors with no sources over what people tell you directly, but you criticize Trump supporter for doing the same thing.
The rumors about letters make sense, but I wouldn't fall on a sword about that. It's an aside from my main point, which is that that what politicians say in public often doesn't reflect their true beliefs. That's not a QAnon fantasy nor conspiracy, it is the way politics has always operated. It's not the same as many of the things Trump supporters claim, but you can choose to continue to deny the obvious.
 
The rumors about letters make sense, but I wouldn't fall on a sword about that. It's an aside from my main point, which is that that what politicians say in public often doesn't reflect their true beliefs. That's not a QAnon fantasy nor conspiracy, it is the way politics has always operated. It's not the same as many of the things Trump supporters claim, but you can choose to continue to deny the obvious.
As can you
 
I’m just going to state my opinion here because quite honestly, I think we could all see all of this infighting coming a mile away if we looked closely.

At least within the Democratic Party, I believe there is a lot of validity to all of the concerns we have (for those of us who think there are indeed big problems that need addressing to better the party).

Biden’s age and especially his stumbling over words, forgetting things, difficulty moving etc are not small issues, and the Democrats who point that out aren’t Biden haters or actively hurting the party. Do you remember when this was brought up many months ago? I think the warning bells have rung for a while now.

Criticism of one’s own to better it or better the process is indeed the highest form of flattery, because you are working to try to improve it, even if that means having hard conversations. I think if you’ll dig a bit, you’ll find that most are more concerned that Democrats will lose in November and continue to lose massive amounts of ground to christofascist enablers than actually truly just dislike Biden to get a jab in.

And yes, I do think the media runs with things too and likes to propagate sensationalism. Biden could be wheelchair ridden and barely get out a few words a day and he’d still be miles better than Trump. That’s not my argument. Mine is that the perception dictates a lot of the vote, and the perception between a younger quicker Biden that wiped the floor with Paul Ryan years ago is sobering in comparison to now.

I’m not completely sure that the media’s reaction, at least what I’ve seen, to Biden’s abysmal debate performance was all ridiculous / unwarranted. I think there are fringe stories especially from the right wing crowd which are purposeful in their lying to try to spread that Biden is completely feeble and helpless. Untrue. I also think there are stories from Democrats that paint Biden as not strong enough to pull off a win in November with concerns about his health that have dated back a while that seem completely reasonable and better yet, responsible. These are not the same. I understand that because we draw unnervingly close to the election the two seem that way to some, but it’s important we don’t conflate. That being said, it was one debate. Unfortunately to many of the American public, we’ve seen that’s all it takes sometimes.

Biden’s still far and away, like miles and miles away, better than Trump. I think 98% or more (throwing out a guess) of Dems strongly and anxiously want him to win.

For those of us who are “making age an issue”, we are still going to vote for the guy, we just are truly, deeply concerned that this is not looking good. And we share the anxiety with those of you who aren’t as concerned with his age or health. We don’t see promising data and are scrambling to know what to do. It’s not just doom and gloom to be pessimistic do nothing whiners.

I’m in a state where Trump will win by a landslide. Other than my vote, and my spouse’s, what do normal people DO in this scenario to help this disaster not unfold?

My thought, and go ahead and drag this opinion through the mud if you want…
Option 1 (Very unlikely but easily best situation to me):
Dems need to initiate a process for replacement candidates NEXT WEEK . There was already a Fox News article (I know, I know) that mentioned Republicans were fearful of Dems replacing Biden with an energetic young candidate. I think this would be a shock but also potentially create a resurgence of support for fatigued Democrats and those who are “in the middle”. Again, like it or not many Americans vote based on demeanor and having a young gun who could punch Trump in the mouth on his rhetoric and chase his silly arse around on a debate stage, make him look like the feeble one — would be huge.

Option 2 (More likely):
Stick with Biden, start running brutal commercials like crazy about how GOP is criminalizing being a woman in regards to abortion, put Biden on whatever uppers you need to to get him SOTU like demeanor without ending him and have him fiery and intense, and maybe hope Trump scandals continue to multiply like roaches….

Idk guys, we need something. At this trajectory, something BIG has to change or Biden will lose in November. Polls don’t mean anything until they do.

Just my opinion
 
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I’m just going to state my opinion here because quite honestly, I think we could all see all of this infighting coming a mile away if we looked closely.

At least within the Democratic Party, I believe there is a lot of validity to all of the concerns we have (for those of us who think there are indeed big problems that need addressing to better the party).

Biden’s age and especially his stumbling over words, forgetting things, difficulty moving etc are not small issues, and the Democrats who point that out aren’t Biden haters or actively hurting the party. Do you remember when this was brought up many months ago? I think the warning bells have rung for a while now.

Criticism of one’s own to better it or better the process is indeed the highest form of flattery, because you are working to try to improve it, even if that means having hard conversations. I’ve seen a lot of animosity toward those bringing this up. More so than the supposed animosity for Biden. I think if you’ll dig a bit, you’ll find that most are more concerned that Democrats will lose in November and continue to lose massive amounts of ground to christofascist enablers than actually truly just dislike Biden to get a jab in.

And yes, I do think the media runs with things too and likes to propagate sensationalism. I’m not completely sure that the media’s reaction, at least what I’ve seen, to Biden’s abysmal debate performance was ridiculous / unwarranted. I think there are fringe stories especially from the right wing crowd which are purposeful in their lying to try to spread that Biden is completely feeble and helpless. Untrue. I also think there are stories from Democrats that paint Biden as not strong enough to pull off a win in November with concerns about his health that have dated back a while that seem completely reasonable and better yet, responsible. These are not the same. I understand that because we draw unnervingly close to the election the two seem that way to some, but it’s important we don’t conflate.

Biden’s still far and away, like miles and miles away, better than Trump. I think 98% or more (throwing out a guess) of Dems strongly and anxiously want him to win.

For those of us who are “making age an issue”, we are still going to vote for the guy, we just are truly, deeply concerned that this is not looking good. And we share the anxiety with those of you who aren’t as concerned with his age or health. We don’t see promising data and are scrambling to know what to do. It’s not just doom and gloom to be pessimistic do nothing whiners.

I’m in a state where Trump will win by a landslide. Other than my vote, and my spouse’s, what do normal people DO in this scenario to help this disaster not unfold?

My thought, and go ahead and drag this opinion through the mud if you want…
Option 1 (Very unlikely but easily best situation to me):
Dems need to initiate a process for replacement candidates next week. There was already a Fox News article (I know, I know) that mentioned Republicans were fearful of Dems replacing Biden with an energetic young candidate.

Option 2 (More likely):
Stick with Biden, start running brutal commercials like crazy about how GOP is criminalizing being a woman in regards to abortion, put Biden on whatever uppers you need to to get him SOTU like demeanor without ending him and have him fiery and intense, and maybe hope Trump scandals continue to multiply like roaches….

Idk guys, we need something. At this trajectory, something BIG has to change or Biden will lose in November. Polls don’t mean anything until they do.

Just my opinion
Nice post. Seems reasonable to me. I've been saying for a bit now that the Republicans want Biden to stay in. They won't say it out loud, but they'd rather take their chances vs Biden, even though they despise him. A young, energetic candidate would motivate voters to get to the polls. It would help down ballot as well, IMHO.

Really, imo, the only reason they want Biden out is because they want chaos in the Democratic party. There's no guarantee the party will unite behind another candidate. The DNC can't afford not to, and if they know what's good for them, they'll get behind the candidate who has the best chance of winning, whoever that is.

I don't buy that Biden is better vs Trump than the others. I believe the difference will become clear on election day.

In any case, I won't vote for Trump and will cast my vote for whoever will likely get the most votes against him. It will either be Biden or his replacement.
 
Failure again. Obama’s policies had the country in far better shape. The election of Trump was due to several things. The primary reason was racism, period. White fear of changing demographics drove enough people to vote that the electoral college, itself a sop to slaveholders from the establishment of the constitution, allowed a completely unsuitable and incompetent oaf to take office.

I don't disagree but I do think there is a bit more to it than that

We talked about the racism when Obama was first elected on PDB, several members said that they were Democrats, Parents were democrats, voted that way their whole lives, and would have sworn that their parents didn't have a racist bone in their body, until they refused to vote for Obama, and some said flat out I can't vote for a black man for president

Also talked about how membership in KKK and other white supremacy groups more than tripled after 2008

Trump came and threw a gas canister on the already growing fire of White fear and racism. He gave voice to people's fear and worst impulses.

Literally gave voice, their voice.

He Said the same crass, uncouth things they said themselves in private and said them in the same crass, uncouth way they said them

Trump said the quiet part out loud and gave permission for others to do the same

A switch went off in some people who all of a sudden were saying and doing things publicly that they never would have pre Trump.

Friends, family, neighbors, coworkers, children of friends, family neighbors and coworkers. Customers of businesses, employees of businesses, owners of businesses

On PDB we talked about the stark difference.

Someone - don't remember who it was, talked about how his son was either the only, or one of the few, black people in their group of friends who had been close since grade school. They are in high school when Trump emerged and things changed instantly for his son

Said how angry and helpless he felt, how upset and devastated his son was

If anyone else but Trump had won the 2016 nomination, I don't think we see nearly the same thing even though that fear and resentment was still present
 
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Give them both cognitive tests. They'll both likely will fail in some aspect.

At this point, do I want Biden to step aside? Yep. I think it's time. Will I vote for him if doesn't? Yep (won't matter in Louisiana anyway).

I'm afraid the polls aren't going to get better. Stories are already coming out of leaders now turning the Harris. Hell, maybe even Joe sees it as stories are also saying he's including her in everything now.
 
4th of July with Biden at the White House, He starts talking about 5 minutes into the video. This is not inspiring confidence.






This is over. No one asked this 81 year old man to run for a second term.

Another great post from J-Donk.
This....IS......over...
*
*
1720174970248.png


Did you quote me by accident or was there something you wanted to say, Steve.
I did mean to quote @J-DONK . I did not mean to quote LA. I have 6 guests in the house at the moment and we just got back from traveling last night. My mind is pulled in many directions.
I will take this opportunity to say:
HALEY : Miss me yet?
Steve: I am NOT MAGA but anything MAGA says that is anti Biden is also supported by me.
I am anti Biden but still anti Trump.
Many Folks have recently become: BORN
Biden....Oughta....Retire....Now
*
"BORN" came to me last night.
@MT15 keeps calling me MAGA so I was inspired by her to dream up something more accurate.
Maybe I should try to get BORN to go national.
Kind of catchy....yes?
 
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You cannot speak for me. i do not hold the opinion you are saying I hold. I guess lying comes with the territory once you become a Trump voter. The shoe certainly fits you well.
I just used many of YOUR words ABOUT ME and removed my name and instead inserted your user name and tweaked it.
Did you NOT notice that? You are telling others what I believe and what I feel.
You said STEVE IS MAGA. Steve feels this. Steve believes this but he won't admit it. So I just mocked you by saying @MT15 believes this, etc.
I just gave you a taste of your own medicine. I just held up a mirror so you could see what you did in your post to me.
Yet you didn't get it.
 
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I’ve given up responding to him. He’s hopeless and posting misogyny regularly. He’s just another MAGA only he likes to pretend he’s better than they are, while I think he’s worse. Regular MAGA can claim they were deceived by Trump’s lies. Steve knows full well what Trump is. He just doesn’t care about any of it.

He was a troll from day one.....and he so often played the victim that I had no doubt he was a MAGA BS artist.....what a sad excuse for a human.....
 
Honestly, J-Donk, you are seeing what you want to see at this point. You are putting style over function. Yes, he talks haltingly, and isn’t as clear enunciating his words as he used to be. But what he is saying makes sense. The content is fine.
With all due respect, I don't think some folks here see Biden's performance in the debate as a game changer or election killer. I do. Much of his content during the debate was fine. In fact, the substance hit on a lot of key points. It was not the message, but the delivery. The one clip alone where he froze and talked about COVID and Medicare and whatever else was a mic drop. It was very, very substantial in my opinion. I'm not sure he can recover from it, honestly.

Biden, post-debate, says he doesn't debate like he used to. That 90 minutes does not take away what he's done for 3.5 years. That's totally true! But you are campaigning to run for President for the NEXT 4 years. The fear of a President without aa sound mind that can lead and make decisions going forward is a HUGE concern. If Biden looked and talked like he did in 2019, Trump would be toast. Trump would not have a chance. Unfortunately, Biden is not that man. Father time has clearly had an effect on him.

I'm very seriously worried that THIS Biden will not be able to beat Trump in November. And that is unacceptable. We can't let Trump back into the White House. It's not just short term pain.....it could change this country forever.
 
I’m in a state where Trump will win by a landslide. Other than my vote, and my spouse’s, what do normal people DO in this scenario to help this disaster not unfold?

My thought, and go ahead and drag this opinion through the mud if you want…
Option 1 (Very unlikely but easily best situation to me):
Dems need to initiate a process for replacement candidates NEXT WEEK . There was already a Fox News article (I know, I know) that mentioned Republicans were fearful of Dems replacing Biden with an energetic young candidate. I think this would be a shock but also potentially create a resurgence of support for fatigued Democrats and those who are “in the middle”. Again, like it or not many Americans vote based on demeanor and having a young gun who could punch Trump in the mouth on his rhetoric and chase his silly arse around on a debate stage, make him look like the feeble one — would be huge.

Option 2 (More likely):
Stick with Biden, start running brutal commercials like crazy about how GOP is criminalizing being a woman in regards to abortion, put Biden on whatever uppers you need to to get him SOTU like demeanor without ending him and have him fiery and intense, and maybe hope Trump scandals continue to multiply like roaches….

Idk guys, we need something. At this trajectory, something BIG has to change or Biden will lose in November. Polls don’t mean anything until they do.

Just my opinion
Solid post here. I totally agree with you about option 1.....I think Biden is unlikely to recover from the disaster that happened a week ago. I've never been a political person, but I'm all in now. I think Trump is THAT BAD of an option. I just fear he will win if Biden is opposite him on the ballot.
 
So she says he is fit, but what someone says about personal interaction is outweighed by what he portrays in public. I think he is still mentally fine based on what I've seen in some unscripted, yet low pressure public interactions, however not as fine as he was in 2020. Many people can seem to plateau healthwise and and maintain their mind their whole lives. When I watch Hillary and Bernie interact, they seem just as capable as they were 10 years ago, but that doesn't seem to be the case with Biden. In addition, Biden seems physically much older than he did in 2020. Even if he were to finish another term, it'll be a struggle, and it could be bad for the country if he's just hanging on. We need someone that can vigorously do the job. Trump will be a disaster, but people aren't worried about his vigor. They're worried that he will be a vigorous and vengeful authoritarian that will be unchecked. Another Trump term will end worse than his first term, and that was awful, especially as Trump loses his mind and then gets led by racists like Stephen Miller. We should be opposing Trump with an opponent with the fewest concerns as possible.
 
So she says he is fit, but what someone says about personal interaction is outweighed by what he portrays in public. I think he is still mentally fine based on what I've seen in some unscripted, yet low pressure public interactions, however not as fine as he was in 2020. Many people can seem to plateau healthwise and and maintain their mind their whole lives. When I watch Hillary and Bernie interact, they seem just as capable as they were 10 years ago, but that doesn't seem to be the case with Biden. In addition, Biden seems physically much older than he did in 2020. Even if he were to finish another term, it'll be a struggle, and it could be bad for the country if he's just hanging on. We need someone that can vigorously do the job. Trump will be a disaster, but people aren't worried about his vigor. They're worried that he will be a vigorous and vengeful authoritarian that will be unchecked. Another Trump term will end worse than his first term, and that was awful, especially as Trump loses his mind and then gets led by racists like Stephen Miller. We should be opposing Trump with an opponent with the fewest concerns as possible.

Why is vigor the most important attribute for a president? I understand why it matters, but the most important quality? It sure seems like that's the only qualification for many people and the media these days independent of anything else.

Every opponent to Trump is going to have their "concerns" or problems. None are going to be perfect. Eventually voters are going to have to get past some of that if they want to stop Trump from winning the presidency.
 
Another great post from J-Donk.
This....IS......over...
*
*

I did mean to quote @J-DONK . I did not mean to quote LA. I have 6 guests in the house at the moment and we just got back from traveling last night. My mind is pulled in many directions.
I will take this opportunity to say:
HALEY : Miss me yet?
Steve: I am NOT MAGA but anything MAGA says that is anti Biden is also supported by me.
I am anti Biden but still anti Trump.
Many Folks have recently become: BORN
Biden....Oughta....Retire....Now
*
"BORN" came to me last night.
@MT15 keeps calling me MAGA so I was inspired by her to dream up something more accurate.
Maybe I should try to get BORN to go national.
Kind of catchy....yes?
I would think J-Donk is simply thrilled by your sudden wave of approval for him.

:ROFLMAO:
 
Why is vigor the most important attribute for a president? I understand why it matters, but the most important quality? It sure seems like that's the only qualification for many people and the media these days independent of anything else.

Every opponent to Trump is going to have their "concerns" or problems. None are going to be perfect. Eventually voters are going to have to get past some of that if they want to stop Trump from winning the presidency.
Vigor is not the most important, but it is important. Perhaps as important is the energy to do the job. The question people will ask themselves before they vote is can Biden do the job effectively. Many people don't think he can, and in a close race against a man that threatens to end our way of life, that is a big problem. Of course every candidate will have concerns or problems, but not all concerns nor problems are weighted equally. Per the polling, an existential threat is being weighed less heavily by voters to low vigor and energy, so saying they have to get past it, won't make it so to some voters that may tip the scale to crazy. I don't think an existential threat will be weighed less heavily against any of the other concerns of other candidates.
 

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