First presidential debate (17 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[Incumbent]

I’m not sure if this article was already shared, but I posted a Thread comment referencing it, so here’s the link. It’s nice to see one media outlet cut through the debate outrage and panic and correctly identify the much bigger problem and existential threat that is Trump. It won’t change anything but it’s exactly what needs to be said over and over.

There are a lot of reminders in this article of who Trump is and what he represents. There is so much bad surrounding him, how awful he was in office, that these reminders are necessary to keep in full view the dangers he poses. It’s worth the read.

“There was only one person at the debate who does not deserve to be running for president. The sooner Trump exits the stage, the better off the country will be.”

To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race | Editorial Board

Biden had a horrible night Thursday. But the debate about the debate is misplaced. The only person who should withdraw from the race is Trump.

www.inquirer.com

 

[Dragon]

I think that the republicans and their sponsors are pushing this story hard to get rid of Biden. Regardless of those 90 minutes he has done a great job and the fact that the republican press pushes so hard for his removal, shows that they fear him the most. People vote for results and Biden has provided those.

With regards to alternatives I really dont like that former west coast procecutor - mostly because we do not know what secrets he has in his closet and with his ex wife in a power position in the MAGA universe, you can be sure that she will be pushing every conspiracy and attack his character on many points and seem reliable to the voters due to being his ex-wife. While I do think Kamala would make a great president, I am not sure that she would garner enough votes to win. I could be wrong though. She has a lot of respect among the young voters and will probably draw a lot of them to vote

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

'It's a mess': Biden turns to family on his path forward after his disastrous debate

President Joe Biden is expected to discuss the future of his re-election campaign with family on Sunday, following a nationally televised debate that left many fellow Democrats worried about his ability to beat former President Donald Trump.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Incumbent]

If you're of the belief that Biden is in some (serious) trouble.. like I tend to think is probably the case.. then that roll of the dice into the unknown seems fairly justifiable imo.

I tend to believe it would create some excitement for the Democrats, something they desperately need right now, and maybe get some people to reassess who dismiss the notion of voting for Biden.

If Biden stays in and wins, great.. if he stays in and loses it'll have been fairly obvious in retrospect that he was a sinking ship.

That’s all certainly possible but excitement can fade pretty quickly. The difficulty is we’re talking about this in the abstract.

I mentioned this earlier, but what happens if the party sidesteps Harris and she reacts like Bernie, not immediately signaling strong unity? If they go with Harris, does that help with the people and in the places where the election will be won?

Obviously if Biden can’t go on or he’s hurting the party’s chances, a move becomes necessary. A lot of what we’re hearing right now is panic and unsourced speculation, though.

Probably the best next step, if Biden is staying in the race, is to go on prime time tv and do his part to reassure voters. If such an effort flopped, then tough decisions have to be made.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

I’m not sure if this article was already shared, but I posted a Thread comment referencing it, so here’s the link. It’s nice to see one media outlet cut through the debate outrage and panic and correctly identify the much bigger problem and existential threat that is Trump. It won’t change anything but it’s exactly what n"eeds to be said over and over.

There are a lot of reminders in this article of who Trump is and what he represents. There is so much bad surrounding him, how awful he was in office, that these reminders are necessary to keep in full view the dangers he poses. It’s worth the read.

“There was only one person at the debate who does not deserve to be running for president. The sooner Trump exits the stage, the better off the country will be.”

To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race | Editorial Board

Biden had a horrible night Thursday. But the debate about the debate is misplaced. The only person who should withdraw from the race is Trump.

www.inquirer.com

Not surprisingly I love the title "To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race".
Love that!
Naturally not happenin'....but I love that!

 

[LA - L.A.]

how much of that is due to all the media coverage saying he should drop out?

This seems to be a repeating pattern

They spend 2 straight weeks saying 24-7 how bad the economy is then ask people "How do you feel about the economy?" then report "A lot of people think the economy is bad"

Amen. What people are overlooking is that all of the major news outlets are owned by major corporations who's primary mission is to generate as much profit as they can and they don't care what they have to do to achieve that.

Creating conflict, controversy, anxiety and fear are the things that help them generate the most profit, so they are always doing it. The Joe's gotta go reporting is making them bank, because it's got the people who support Biden glued to reporting out of anxiety and it's got the Trump supporters glued to reporting out of gloating.

Close political races make them more money than lopsided ones, just like sporting events that are close contests do. Going back to the 1990's, news outlets have reported every presidential election in ways that gives the impression of a close race. It's not possible to know how much of that was reporting following the truth or did the reporting play a part in making it true.

Biden might lose if he's not replaced, but he also might win if he's not. A replacement candidate might win, but they also might lose. No one knows and rash decisions don't usually work out as intended.

 

[zztop]

how much of that is due to all the media coverage saying he should drop out?

This seems to be a repeating pattern

They spend 2 straight weeks saying 24-7 how bad the economy is then ask people "How do you feel about the economy?" then report "A lot of people think the economy is bad"

Basically my thought as well. They should ask people again in like 3 weeks, when all of this has died down.

If you're of the belief that Biden is in some (serious) trouble.. like I tend to think is probably the case.. then that roll of the dice into the unknown seems fairly justifiable imo.

I tend to believe it would create some excitement for the Democrats, something they desperately need right now, and maybe get some people to reassess who dismiss the notion of voting for Biden.

If Biden stays in and wins, great.. if he stays in and loses it'll have been fairly obvious in retrospect that he was a sinking ship.

I'm going to word this poorly, but I'm skeptical this could be a new thought that some people just suddenly had. I can't believe these same people calling for him to step down or be replaced were fine with him before the debate, and suddenly just flipped a switch after the debate. So I wonder if there were concerns prior, why did they let him essentially run unopposed? There should have been enough signs/concerns enough last year for someone else to step up to challenge him (no, Dean Philips did not really count). But seemingly he had overwhelming support last year. Leading up to the debate, they were fine, now suddenly not?

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Basically my thought as well. They should ask people again in like 3 weeks, when all of this has died down.



I'm going to word this poorly, but I'm skeptical this could be a new thought that some people just suddenly had. I can't believe these same people calling for him to step down or be replaced were fine with him before the debate, and suddenly just flipped a switch after the debate. So I wonder if there were concerns prior, why did they let him essentially run unopposed? There should have been enough signs/concerns enough last year for someone else to step up to challenge him (no, Dean Philips did not really count). But seemingly he had overwhelming support last year. Leading up to the debate, they were fine, now suddenly not?

Thank you for your post that WAS well worded!

 

[LA - L.A.]

If you're of the belief that Biden is in some (serious) trouble.. like I tend to think is probably the case.. then that roll of the dice into the unknown seems fairly justifiable imo.

I tend to believe it would create some excitement for the Democrats, something they desperately need right now, and maybe get some people to reassess who dismiss the notion of voting for Biden.

If Biden stays in and wins, great.. if he stays in and loses it'll have been fairly obvious in retrospect that he was a sinking ship.

Hindsight is always 20/20. The problem with hindsight is it's never around when you need to make a decision. It always waits to show up after you've already done what you decided to do. It'd be really helpful if hindsight would come around when we have to make a tough decision. Damn you, hindsight.

 

[bdb13]

That’s all certainly possible but excitement can fade pretty quickly. The difficulty is we’re talking about this in the abstract.

I mentioned this earlier, but what happens if the party sidesteps Harris and she reacts like Bernie, not immediately signaling strong unity? If they go with Harris, does that help with the people and in the places where the election will be won?

Obviously if Biden can’t go on or he’s hurting the party’s chances, a move becomes necessary. A lot of what we’re hearing right now is panic and unsourced speculation, though.

Probably the best next step, if Biden is staying in the race, is to go on prime time tv and do his part to reassure voters. If such an effort flopped, then tough decisions have to be made.

Harris would lose imo and negate a lot of that excitement. If she's bypassed and doesn't call for unity.. that'd be awful of her and it's possible I guess, but I just can't imagine her being selfish enough to do that but I guess anything is possible.
..
Yes, if he is staying in they need to put him out there and see if he can pull it together enough to give himself a chance.. it can't be more of what we saw on Thursday though. Just can't be.

 

[bdb13]

I'm going to word this poorly, but I'm skeptical this could be a new thought that some people just suddenly had. I can't believe these same people calling for him to step down or be replaced were fine with him before the debate, and suddenly just flipped a switch after the debate. So I wonder if there were concerns prior, why did they let him essentially run unopposed? There should have been enough signs/concerns enough last year for someone else to step up to challenge him (no, Dean Philips did not really count). But seemingly he had overwhelming support last year. Leading up to the debate, they were fine, now suddenly not?

Imo it's probably as simple as: Biden chose to run again, the people around him have maintained the idea that there has been no cognitive decline, and no other big players in the party were willing to take on Biden in the primary and make his cognitive health an issue.. and so the party has strongly stuck with him until now when, on a national stage and split-screened next to Trump, he performed so poorly.

 

[Incumbent]

Harris would lose imo and negate a lot of that excitement. If she's bypassed and doesn't call for unity.. that'd be awful of her and it's possible I guess, but I just can't imagine her being selfish enough to do that but I guess anything is possible.
..
Yes, if he is staying in they need to put him out there and see if he can pull it together enough to give himself a chance.. it can't be more of what we saw on Thursday though. Just can't be.

I’m not suggesting she would undermine the party deliberately but it doesn’t take much for the media to start spinning narratives, and misinformation campaigns to sow seeds of doubt. (All of which has been happening).

Best case scenario, if a change has to be made, is they identify a candidate who will poll strongly right from the start, give them some momentum to build on, and if that’s not Harris, she will quickly and unequivocally express her support. No idea who such a candidate is.

It’s fine for people to worry we can’t win with Biden - it’s justified until there’s reason to feel better - but those people also need to understand that a candidate switch now, or at anytime, doesn’t necessarily improve chances from what we hoped Biden could deliver.

 

[Dragon]

Remember that aside from Harris, anyone else would be untested and could not boast of the success that Biden/Harris has had these last 4 years. And as I wrote - Biden and Harris are know actors. Anyone new may have some skeletons in the closet unknown to the party and voters.

 

[SaintForLife]

I don’t want that to be your takeaway from our conversation yesterday. Polling is increasingly vulnerable to factors that do pose challenges to accuracy and reliability, and not all polling is equal.

But collectively, polling can contribute to necessary assessments and indicate trends, when taken in context and with an understanding of flaws. I don’t know anybody who doesn’t think the debate was a concern and isn’t interested in gaining a clearer understanding of Biden’s health and ability. It’s just that some people are reserving judgement until a bigger picture forms. As has been pointed out, and why it was shocking to many people, that was a version of Biden that people weren’t prepared for, despite his well known traits.

I do think if Biden has to step aside, it’s going to be very difficult for Democrats to regroup this late into the process. That’s a big concern for me. Things can look great on the surface but we don’t know yet how a black female former prosecutor, or a white male west coast governor, will be received by undecided voters and in swing states. We know Biden has done well enough with those groups. Moving forward with him may very well prove to not be tenable, though.

The reason it was shocking to many people(mostly Democrat voters) is because the Democrat politicians, the media and the White House have been lying or covering for Biden's condition for 3.5 years.

The media knew the debate was so bad and unable to be blamed on right wing edited videos that they couldn't keep up the charade.

 

[SaintForLife]

I think that the republicans and their sponsors are pushing this story hard to get rid of Biden. Regardless of those 90 minutes he has done a great job and the fact that the republican press pushes so hard for his removal, shows that they fear him the most. People vote for results and Biden has provided those.

With regards to alternatives I really dont like that former west coast procecutor - mostly because we do not know what secrets he has in his closet and with his ex wife in a power position in the MAGA universe, you can be sure that she will be pushing every conspiracy and attack his character on many points and seem reliable to the voters due to being his ex-wife. While I do think Kamala would make a great president, I am not sure that she would garner enough votes to win. I could be wrong though. She has a lot of respect among the young voters and will probably draw a lot of them to vote

I seriously doubt that the Republicans are pushing the story to get Biden to drop out. Why would they want Biden out especially after his debate performance? Trump's election chances went up even higher after the debate.

It's most likely Democrats who are pushing the story to get Biden to drop out because now they are worried Biden can't beat Trump.

 

[Incumbent]

Amen. What people are overlooking is that all of the major news outlets are owned by major corporations who's primary mission is to generate as much profit as they can and they don't care what they have to do to achieve that.

Creating conflict, controversy, anxiety and fear are the things that help them generate the most profit, so they are always doing it. The Joe's gotta go reporting is making them bank, because it's got the people who support Biden glued to reporting out of anxiety and it's got the Trump supporters glued to reporting out of gloating.

Definitely seeing signs of that on Threads. NYT has been facing a lot of backlash, even before the debate, for their reporting. Since the debate, their employees, and other media personalities and pundits, are getting heavily ratioed on their calls for Biden to be replaced. I’m not saying there isn’t real concern among voters, but the drumbeat of it is coming from the media and party outsiders telling Dems what they need to do. Concerns haven’t shown up with fundraising…yet, anyway.

 

[bdb13]

Remember that aside from Harris, anyone else would be untested and could not boast of the success that Biden/Harris has had these last 4 years. And as I wrote - Biden and Harris are know actors. Anyone new may have some skeletons in the closet unknown to the party and voters.

That is true.. but I also don't think those are necessarily destined to be negatives in and of themselves.. they could be, especially dependent upon the hypothetical replacement candidate, but I also think it's possible that some available space there with a person not directly tied to Biden/Harris paired with them being a new big player on the national scene.. I can just see the scenario where that works with the right candidate.

 

[DaveXA]

Remember that aside from Harris, anyone else would be untested and could not boast of the success that Biden/Harris has had these last 4 years. And as I wrote - Biden and Harris are know actors. Anyone new may have some skeletons in the closet unknown to the party and voters.

I would say that Gavin Newsom is absolutely not untested. I'd argue he's even more tested than Harris who's been mostly out of the spotlight during this administration. California politics is no walk in the park.

I like Gretchen Whitmer. I think she'd have the chops to handle herself well during a high pressure campaign. I would easily vote for either of them over both Trump and Biden.

Fwiw, Newsom is probably as vetted as Biden. He's got some drawbacks, but nothing too serious. I don't know enough about Gretchen to say her background isn't an issue.