First presidential debate (3 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    No it isn't.

    You know you don't know what you're trying to convince yourself you know. You're trying to convince yourself, because you're terrified of admitting to yourself you don't know what will happen. Just like the rest of us don't know what will happen.

    That's why you get so hostile toward people who disagree with you. It's also why you can't stop yourself from insulting people who disagree with you. You feel threatened by people disagreeing with you, so you lash out at them.
    another post full of “you”’s that I don’t give a shirt about.
     
    Sorry i can't.

    Support for Biden at this moment is support for Trump.
    This is irrational. Everyone who wants Biden to stay in the race is committed to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee ends up being. You won’t even vote for president. This is just lashing out at people you don’t agree with, when you yourself have less of a commitment to defeat Trump than we do.
     
    This is irrational. Everyone who wants Biden to stay in the race is committed to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee ends up being. You won’t even vote for president. This is just lashing out at people you don’t agree with, when you yourself have less of a commitment to defeat Trump than we do.

    If Biden is on the ticket, Trump becomes president.

    None of our votes are going to impact the election unless you live in one if the 5 states that matter.
     
    I'm not sure your basis for making this claim. Plenty of rank and file voters, like myself, have doubts about Biden's continued candidacy. You see that on this very thread. I don't give a **** about what big donors want - I simply want Trump to lose, whatever it takes.

    As for the politicians, I don't think they're motivated by big donors so much as self-interest - they don't want to lose their own elections as part of the collateral damage. If anything, big donors pulling back from Biden would potentially mean that money going to down ballot races instead.
    I saw the story about donors setting up a PAC to entice politicians to call for Biden to step aside. I am well aware that the debate actually triggered this, but the sustained arc of this seems weird to me. This story is sustained long past even the Access Hollywood tapes, as I remember. Every Trump scandal dies down very quickly, this cycle is two weeks now, without any further horrible performances. In fact, Biden has done everything they said he needed to do, and after every one the goalpost is moved.

    After every time Biden goes out and is fine there are more defections. And mostly fairly obscure politicians who presumably don’t interact with him personally. Then I read that this PAC is promising money to support any politician who will publicly call on Biden to step down.

    It’s speculation, sure. But it makes sense.
     
    According to MSNBC, the elite behind the move to get rid of Joe is black. His name is Barack Obama.

    It's so cynical and disgusting to try and make this about race.
    According to me MSNBC is liberal Fox News, I have more sense than to more than just occasionally notice what they say. I stay away from both of them.

    Both of them make their viewers to become stressed over over their narrative and chachertrazations. I don't go to churches for the same reason. They try to tell me what to believe and what to think. I'm not going to tune that kind garbage into my life.
     
    No it isn't.

    You know you don't know what you're trying to convince yourself you know. You're trying to convince yourself, because you're terrified of admitting to yourself you don't know what will happen. Just like the rest of us don't know what will happen.

    That's why you get so hostile toward people who disagree with you. It's also why you can't stop yourself from insulting people who disagree with you. You feel threatened by people disagreeing with you, so you lash out at them.

    another post full of “you”’s that I don’t give a shirt about.

    If you truly don't care, why did you respond?

    It doesn't make sense.

    I didn’t even read it.
    It's obvious you've read all of my posts.

    Why are you acting like you didn't? That's one of the weirdest things I've seen someone do.
     
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    If Biden is on the ticket, Trump becomes president.
    I don’t believe that. You won’t change my mind by calling me names or just restating your opinion without any supporting facts or even trying to say why you think what you do.

    I have phone banked for democratic candidates, I have donated to ActBlue. Accusing me of supporting Trump just shows you are responding with pure emotion and not thinking clearly.
     
    If Biden is on the ticket, Trump becomes president.
    That's certainly been your consistent opinion.

    None of our votes are going to impact the election unless you live in one if the 5 states that matter.
    So what happens if none of us who, aren't Trump supporters, don't vote in the other 45 states, because it doesn't matter if we vote?

    The things you say here won't have any impact on the election, but that doesn't stop you from posting here. So why stop yourself from voting? Who knows, if more people like you decide to vote, you all just might be surprised.
     
    I don’t believe that. You won’t change my mind by calling me names or just restating your opinion without any supporting facts or even trying to say why you think what you do.

    I have phone banked for democratic candidates, I have donated to ActBlue. Accusing me of supporting Trump just shows you are responding with pure emotion and not thinking clearly.

    I know you don't believe it, and I couldn't care less if I change anyone's mind.

    None of us are going to have anything to do with whether or not Biden is on the ticket. Our minds don't matter.
     
    I know you don't believe it, and I couldn't care less if I change anyone's mind.

    None of us are going to have anything to do with whether or not Biden is on the ticket. Our minds don't matter.
    But yet you seem to feel it is worth your time to hurl insults at those of us who don’t agree with your opinions. Inconsistent.
     
    I saw the story about donors setting up a PAC to entice politicians to call for Biden to step aside. I am well aware that the debate actually triggered this, but the sustained arc of this seems weird to me. This story is sustained long past even the Access Hollywood tapes, as I remember. Every Trump scandal dies down very quickly, this cycle is two weeks now, without any further horrible performances. In fact, Biden has done everything they said he needed to do, and after every one the goalpost is moved.

    After every time Biden goes out and is fine there are more defections. And mostly fairly obscure politicians who presumably don’t interact with him personally. Then I read that this PAC is promising money to support any politician who will publicly call on Biden to step down.

    It’s speculation, sure. But it makes sense.
    J-Donk also had posted a bunch of articles on a daily basis about how wealthy donors were withholding money to force Biden out. If wealthy donors aren't elite, then I don't know what is. If threatening to withhold donations for everyone unless Biden dropped out isn't trying to pressure Biden to drop out, then I don't know what is.

    J-Donk was happy and cheering the wealthy donors pressuring Biden. He supported their efforts for days and wanted them to be successful. As soon as they were successful and he read your accurate assessment of it being wealthy elites forcing Biden out, he gets upset with you for pointing that out and accuses you of being "Blue Maga" for promoting "conspiracies," after he had spent days pointing out it was happening, cheering it on, and hoping they'd succeed.

    He so badly wanted Biden forced out of the race, that I don't think he fully took in the big picture view of the means that were taking place, because he was only focused on the ends.
     
    Yesterday is the best we’re going to get from Joe at this point. That is his ceiling.

    There will be more days like the debate between now and the election.

    It is irresponsible to have him on the ticket, regardless of what the idiots and deluded say.
    Say you were me, would you then be one of the "idiots and deluded" of whom you speak???

    Therein lies your communication failings.
     
    Yesterday is the best we’re going to get from Joe at this point. That is his ceiling.

    I agree.

    There will be more days like the debate between now and the election.

    It’s possible and a concern of mine.

    It is irresponsible to have him on the ticket, regardless of what the idiots and deluded say.

    Every candidate comes with negatives. That’s simply a fact. People behind the scenes have to figure out which possible candidate is most likely to overcome their negatives. It might not be Biden. It might not be anybody.

    I’m not sure why you have to include the insults. I’d like to think all of us want the same election outcome, even if we disagree about how to get there.
     
    I’m split on the issue of forcing out Biden. I have feelings on both sides of this.

    On one hand, this seems to set a dangerous precedent. As an example, I could see a candidate more in line with my preference of politics, like a progressive, mobbed out of the nomination by moderates who simply don’t like them and believe they hold the power to squelch them out as needed. . It seems clear it’s not fair to Biden to have folks turn on him. It might not to fair to the party either - it could be more detrimental, as some have pointed out.

    On the other, I think there is certainly an argument from much evidence to be had that Biden isn’t near the strongest candidate to defeat Trump, and every day we let this go on just solidifies another Trump presidency. Again, it’s not about Biden’s positions at this point. Most know them. It’s about his PR gaffes that have and continue to happen and how the public perceives them and how the Trump campaign is capitalizing off them. I think that if you want to defeat Trump and you don’t see Biden as being the guy, you are trying anything you can to win.

    That being said, time continues to pass. Biden will have to be forced out, it seems, if it happens at all. If this continues, it becomes a game of diminishing returns where askiing him to stand down a month now no longer is in a way to actually replace him, but just adds dead weight. Now, that timing? I don’t have the exact numbers to tell you what time is left to do anything productive if anything is to be done at all. Some people say everyone who speaks out now is that dead weight. Some say it’s necessary but time is certainly running out. Every day I think the hype around getting him to stand down starts to die down, I hear more rumblings about it.

    This isn’t going to be pretty in any way you look at it, IMO. I hate saying that.
     
    I’m split on the issue of forcing out Biden. I have feelings on both sides of this.

    On one hand, this seems to set a dangerous precedent. As an example, I could see a candidate more in line with my preference of politics, like a progressive, mobbed out of the nomination by moderates who simply don’t like them and believe they hold the power to squelch them out as needed. . It seems clear it’s not fair to Biden to have folks turn on him. It might not to fair to the party either - it could be more detrimental, as some have pointed out.

    On the other, I think there is certainly an argument from much evidence to be had that Biden isn’t near the strongest candidate to defeat Trump, and every day we let this go on just solidifies another Trump presidency. Again, it’s not about Biden’s positions at this point. Most know them. It’s about his PR gaffes that have and continue to happen and how the public perceives them and how the Trump campaign is capitalizing off them. I think that if you want to defeat Trump and you don’t see Biden as being the guy, you are trying anything you can to win.

    That being said, time continues to pass. Biden will have to be forced out, it seems, if it happens at all. If this continues, it becomes a game of diminishing returns where askiing him to stand down a month now no longer is in a way to actually replace him, but just adds dead weight. Now, that timing? I don’t have the exact numbers to tell you what time is left to do anything productive if anything is to be done at all. Some people say everyone who speaks out now is that dead weight. Some say it’s necessary but time is certainly running out. Every day I think the hype around getting him to stand down starts to die down, I hear more rumblings about it.

    This isn’t going to be pretty in any way you look at it, IMO. I hate saying that.
    I hear you. There's no obvious best path forward.

    There's so many known and unknown dynamics, factors and players in play, that it's impossible for anyone to know enough to have a well informed opinion or make a well informed decision, and I don't mean us here. I mean the people with the decision making power and those who can influence them.

    I just hope the people who are looking out for the greater public good have the most say in choosing the path forward. If Biden drops out, I hope he's able to accept it and be at peace with it and that he's treated with dignity and respect. If Biden stays in, I hope people are able to accept it and rally around him.

    I hope that people rise to the occasion to show true leadership and to move forward in a calm and focused manner, free of drama and grandstanding. I hope we get a quick and unanimous decision on what the path forward will be.
     
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