First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[Lapaz]

I agree.



It’s possible and a concern of mine.



Every candidate comes with negatives. That’s simply a fact. People behind the scenes have to figure out which possible candidate is most likely to overcome their negatives. It might not be Biden. It might not be anybody.

I’m not sure why you have to include the insults. I’d like to think all of us want the same election outcome, even if we disagree about how to get there.

The insults are irritating from both sides, and just turns people off.

I was pleased to see Biden's performance at NATO. It wasn't perfect, but he clearly shows he's still in command. I've always thought he was still fine today, but I've also thought he is showing a concerning decline, and I think there is a good chance that he will do a poor job in another term, and might not survive it. I also think that the sitters think this as well, but if they're still sitting, it's unlikely for Biden to win them over with anything less than lot's more near perfect engagements. I think the odds are high that Biden will have more occasions like the debate, and he won't be near perfect. I think engagements like NATO are the best we will get, and minor gaffs like he had at NATO will prevent him from making up ground. The problem is he has a lot of ground to make up, because he needs to be up by a few percentage points nationally to win. I think the odds are very high that Biden will lose, because the focus is all on his infirmity, and that focus will not change. NATO could've been a nail in the coffin, but he survived it. He didn't get out of the coffin, and I can't imagine him getting out of that coffin. I'm convinced that only a younger and healthy candidate will get the focus back to issues, and Democrats would win that argument.

Biden may pull it out, but then what happens if and/or when he declines to the point that he can barely do the job? Will they have to remove him at some point using the 25th amendment? Do you think his staff would embarrass him like that? Do you think Biden would recognize his diminishment during his 2nd term, or just drag himself to the end? That will be bad for the country, and dangerous.

 

[Dragon]

There are a lot of logistics involved and TBH Sam has been angry with Biden for months..

I don't like the precedent it would create either. Biden has won the nomination and unless they find him unable to perform the job - I don't like that donors and the press can just force a candidate out who has legally and rightfully won a nomination. This would have died down 2 weeks ago if it was Trump. Think about that and about what the motives are of those who is driving this frenzy

 

[SFIDC3]

That doesn’t even make sense

It makes zero sense, all this hasn't changed my stance whatsoever, I'm voting whomever is running against Trump....full stop....and I think some folks who are arguing over this are severely underestimating the power of the women's vote in this country.....Trump is about to find out that karma is a biotch......IMO

 

[Heathen]

I hear you. There's no obvious best path forward.

There's so many known and unknown dynamics, factors and players in play, that it's impossible for anyone to know enough to have a well informed opinion or make a well informed decision, and I don't mean us here. I mean the people with the decision making power and those who can influence them.

I just hope the people who are looking out for the greater public good have the most say in choosing the path forward. If Biden drops out, I hope he's able to accept it and be at peace with it and that he's treated with dignity and respect. If Biden stays in, I hope people are able to accept it and rally around him.

I hope that people rise to the occasion to show true leadership and to move forward in in a calm and focused manner, free of drama and grandstanding. I hope we get a quick and unanimous decision on what the path forward will be.

Agreed fully. Well said.

 

[Lapaz]

There are a lot of logistics involved and TBH Sam has been angry with Biden for months..

I don't like the precedent it would create either. Biden has won the nomination and unless they find him unable to perform the job - I don't like that donors and the press can just force a candidate out who has legally and rightfully won a nomination. This would have died down 2 weeks ago if it was Trump. Think about that and about what the motives are of those who is driving this frenzy

I understand that he won, but winning the nomination would be more meaningful if he had been challenged by real competitors. The party just decided that he should be the nominee. It was just a formality. It would've been a different story today if he had beaten a few real candidates. People would point to that as proof that he gives the party the best chance. He didn't face competition. That's tradition for incumbents, but the party should've recognized that his age was unprecedented.

 

[LA - L.A.]

It makes zero sense, all this hasn't changed my stance whatsoever, I'm voting whomever is running against Trump....full stop....and I think some folks who are arguing over this are severely underestimating the power of the women's vote in this country.....Trump is about to find out that karma is a biotch......IMO

I agree about the vote of the women. I think the only way Trump wins if is Republicans are able to suppress the vote more than they ever have before or Putin.

That little bastage and his ruthless dirty tricks are always sitting there in the back of my mind. I strongly believe that Putin sees getting Trump back in the White House as an existential necessity. I think Putin is toast if the Democratic candidate wins and I think Putin knows that, so he's going to pull out all the stops to either sway the election to Trump or sabotage it completely to throw us into disarray and crisis.

 

[Dragon]

I agree about the vote of the women. I think the only way Trump wins if is Republicans are able to suppress the vote more than they ever have before or Putin.

That little bastage and his ruthless dirty tricks are always sitting there in the back of my mind. I strongly believe that Putin sees getting Trump back in the White House as an existential necessity. I think Putin is toast if the Democratic candidate wins and I think Putin knows that, so he's going to pull out all the stops to either sway the election to Trump or sabotage it completely to throw us into disarray and crisis.

Which is why I am extremely nerveous of the legal challenges that a potential replacement would face. They only need to keep him/her off the ballot in 1 state for it to throw the election to Trump. And we know that many of the courts are compromised

 

[Optimus Prime]

This is like deciding whether to go for it on 4th and short or kick the field goal

Whatever you do if you win it was the right call

If you lose you're an idiot and obviously should have done the other

 

[SamAndreas]

What do they all have in common?

 

[LA - L.A.]

I understand that he won, but winning the nomination would be more meaningful if he had been challenged by real competitors.

So Obama winning the nomination in 2012 wasn't "meaningful?" Why do you or any other individual get to decide which elections are "meaningful" and which ones aren't? Where in the Constitution does it say that we only have to honor "meaningful" elections? Where in federal and state election law does it say we only have to honor "meaningful" elections?

I think this view you're expressing is a Machiavellian excuse to ignore elections that you don't like the outcome of. I think you would probably not hold this view if it was happening to your favorite candidate, like say Bernie Sanders 8 years ago. I think you have this view to rationalize to yourself that forcing the person you don't like out is okay. I think you're choosing not to see this very unprecedented and very big deal, that opens a political Pandora's box.

You may tell yourself Biden being forced out is the will of the people, but it really isn't. It's the will of a handful of political and financial elites that are inserting themselves in place of the will of the people, while ignoring that the only tool we've ever used to determine the actual will of the people are elections.

What's being proposed and eagerly supported is a lot more plutocratic than it is democratic. It creates a precedent and blueprint for other financial elites to overturn the outcome of elections. That's a dangerous precedent and it will be exploited. The justification for removing Biden is that he can't win. Being too old and unfit are just the reasons given for why he can't win, it is not the reason he's being forced out.

So the precedent is set. The wealthy can use their wealth to force any primary winner out just by claiming they can't win. Whether or not a candidate can win is unprovable and unknowable. No one proved Biden can't win, they only claimed he can't win. There's no way to prove anyone can win or not. It's a completely subjective opinion. Polls were the only "evidence" presented. Polls don't prove a candidate can or can not win. The wealthy can influence and outright control polls if they want.

We open a very dangerous door that threatens our future democracy by doing what is about to be done. Maybe that's a feature and not a bug.

The party just decided that he should be the nominee. It was just a formality.

That just isn't true at all. The party did not prevent anyone from running against Biden. Biden had several opponents on the ballot in every state. People ran against Biden and they all lost badly to him because the overwhelming majority of voters supported and voted for Biden.

Bernie Sanders could have run. He chose not to run and to support Biden instead. The same is true of Hilary, Elizabeth Warren, Salwell, and so on. They all could have run, but they chose to support Biden instead. One of the reasons they didn't challenge him is because they didn't think they could beat him if they did. People who thought they could beat Biden, ran against him and lost.

It would've been a different story today if he had beaten a few real candidates.

Whoever you consider "real candidates" chose not to run against Biden. A big part of why they chose not to run against him is because they didn't think they could beat him.

People would point to that as proof that he gives the party the best chance.

Primary elections are not held to figure out who gives the party the best chance to win in the general election. Primary elections are held to give people a chance to pick who they want to represent them. The voters chose Biden and they had other choices on the ballot. You just repeated and endorsed the argument the wealthy class will use to over ride the will of voters in the future.

"If the voters don't choose the person I think has the best chance to win, then I will over ride the will of the voters to put in the person I think has the best chance to win." That's what they'll say and they won't necessarily be sincere when they say it. They could say that while putting in their candidate solely for self serving reasons.

Primary elections are supposed to be all about letting people have a voice in choosing who they want to represent them. They are not supposed to be about choosing the candidate who a handful of people believe has the best chance to win. The people voted for Biden to represent them. A handful of people decided to over ride the voters. It will happen again and it won't have anything to do with being too old or unfit.

 

[Lapaz]

Which is why I am extremely nerveous of the legal challenges that a potential replacement would face. They only need to keep him/her off the ballot in 1 state for it to throw the election to Trump. And we know that many of the courts are compromised

I don't see how it could be illegal for a party to put whatever qualified ticket they want on the ballot. There isn't a contract breach. Voters may feel wronged, but it isn't illegal. Also, deep red states don't matter, so many states could do it without hurting the democratic nominee.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Which is why I am extremely nerveous of the legal challenges that a potential replacement would face. They only need to keep him/her off the ballot in 1 state for it to throw the election to Trump. And we know that many of the courts are compromised

Agree and share your nervousness. They don't even have to win to do damage. The lawsuits themselves might decrease voter turnout because it makes people disillusioned and feel disenfranchised.

 

[Lapaz]

What do they all have in common?

Let me guess their comonality...they're all racist men. How dare they! /s

 

[SamAndreas]

I don't see how it could be illegal for a party to put whatever qualified ticket they want on the ballot. There isn't a contract breach. Voters may feel wronged, but it isn't illegal. Also, deep red states don't matter, so many states could do it without hurting the democratic nominee.

Hmmm, do you lose many arguments?

 

[SamAndreas]

Let me guess their comonality...they're all racist men. How dare they! /s

Where did you come up with that racist part?

You phrased it like it was to be stuffed into someone's mouth, not something coming out of own mouth.

But it did come out of your mouth.

 

[Lapaz]

Where did you come up with that racist part?

You phrased it like it was to be stuffed into someone's mouth, not something coming out of own mouth.

But it did come out of your mouth.

Okay, so they're all white men. The racism comes from the notion that black voters want Biden to stay in the race, and feel like their position is being discounted. I think the implication is that it is racist. Tell me why it matters that it is all white men pictured?

 

[LA - L.A.]

I don't see how it could be illegal for a party to put whatever qualified ticket they want on the ballot. There isn't a contract breach.

This is not the whole truth, it's only a partial truth. When the party nomination system was exclusively privately run, what you said was the whole truth. When the parties started having states run their primary system, things changed. Their are not state laws that do create contracts with voters that vary from state to state. In the first round of voting at the convention, some delegates from some states are required by state law to vote for the primary winner from their state, even if that candidate withdraws. Biden is going to get votes in the first round of voting from all the delegates from all of those states. The only way around it is for those states to change their laws.

Voters may feel wronged, but it isn't illegal. Also, deep red states don't matter, so many states could do it without hurting the democratic nominee.

Under some state laws it very much would be illegal and a breach of contract that the party has with that state that pays for and runs their elections for them.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Okay, so they're all white men. The racism comes from the notion that black voters want Biden to stay in the race, and feel like their position is being discounted. I think the implication is that it is racist. Tell me why it matters that it is all white men pictured?

You're the one that saw racism. You're the one who's mind went straight to racism.

My first impression was a bunch of geeky men. Look at them again, they're all a bunch of geeks or nerds, whichever you prefer. I also know most of them are wealthy entertainers, there's a few I don't recognize.