First presidential debate (2 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[SamAndreas]

Okay, so they're all white men. The racism comes from the notion that black voters want Biden to stay in the race, and feel like their position is being discounted. I think the implication is that it is racist. Tell me why it matters that it is all white men pictured?

When I saw them the first thing that came to my mind was they all look soft as butter. They all look like men, but not a manly man among them.

I wondering if any of them could drive a nail without smashing their thumb. What would they do if they had a flat tire in the rain.

Privilege seems to be apparent as a commonality amoung them, all of them looked privileged.

I figured it out now, they are all privileged elites.

 

[DaveXA]

It makes zero sense, all this hasn't changed my stance whatsoever, I'm voting whomever is running against Trump....full stop....and I think some folks who are arguing over this are severely underestimating the power of the women's vote in this country.....Trump is about to find out that karma is a biotch......IMO

Hell hath no fury...I hope that truism hold in this case.

 

[Dragon]

I don't see how it could be illegal for a party to put whatever qualified ticket they want on the ballot. There isn't a contract breach. Voters may feel wronged, but it isn't illegal. Also, deep red states don't matter, so many states could do it without hurting the democratic nominee.

Because each state has their own rules on who can be on the ballot and the deadlines they have to meet. Do you even remotely believe that a Biden replacement would get an excemption from the rules in red states?

 

[LA - L.A.]

When I saw them the first thing that came to my mind was they all look soft as butter. They all look like men, but not a manly man among them.

I wondering if any of them could drive a nail without smashing their thumb. What would they do if they had a flat tire in the rain.

Hell what would they do if they had to change a faucet or the springs on a garage door.

Privilege seems to be apparent as a commonality amoung them, all of them looked privileged.

I figured it out now, they are all privileged elites.

I wish them all the best when climate change forces us all to rely on hunting and gathering again and they can't get mani-pedi's anymore. /satire

 

[LA - L.A.]

It makes zero sense, all this hasn't changed my stance whatsoever, I'm voting whomever is running against Trump....full stop....and I think some folks who are arguing over this are severely underestimating the power of the women's vote in this country.....Trump is about to find out that karma is a biotch......IMO

When did karma become a biotech?

Also, Republicans are just adding more fuel to the fire.

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI) on Thursday accused “the angry feminist movement” of emasculating men and said the U.S. should “work our way back” to 1960 if former President Donald Trump wins in November.

In a House floor speech that could have been lifted from Margaret Atwood’s dystopian novel The Handmaid’s Tale, Grothman went after supporters of government-funded childcare programs and said President Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty “took the purpose out of the man’s life, because now you have a basket of goodies for the mom.” He added, “They’ve taken away the purpose of the man to be part of a family. And if we want to get America back to, say, 1960, where this was almost unheard of, we have to fundamentally change these programs.”

Grothman said “the breakdown of the family” was caused by the U.S. government in the 1960s and “people like Angela Davis, well-known communist, people like the feminists who were so important in the 1960s.”

“So I hope the press corps picks up on this, and I hope Republican and Democrat leadership put together some sort of plan for January, in which we work our way back to where America was in the 1960s,” he added.

Grothman, a fervent supporter of Trump, hailed the overturning of Roe v. Wade in June 2022, saying after the decision: “Over the years, millions of children have had their dreams stolen before seeing the light of the day. But today marks a brighter future for the hearts and minds of unborn children, women, and families.

“I commend the six justices who voted to overturn Roe for having the courage to base their decision on sound legal principles rather than a fashionable line of thinking that rules academia, Hollywood, and the mainstream media.”.................

MSN

 

[DaveXA]

Because each state has their own rules on who can be on the ballot and the deadlines they have to meet. Do you even remotely believe that a Biden replacement would get an excemption from the rules in red states?

Interesting question. My thought is, do red states even matter in an electoral college system?

 

[coldseat]

I’m split on the issue of forcing out Biden. I have feelings on both sides of this.

On one hand, this seems to set a dangerous precedent. As an example, I could see a candidate more in line with my preference of politics, like a progressive, mobbed out of the nomination by moderates who simply don’t like them and believe they hold the power to squelch them out as needed. . It seems clear it’s not fair to Biden to have folks turn on him. It might not to fair to the party either - it could be more detrimental, as some have pointed out.

On the other, I think there is certainly an argument from much evidence to be had that Biden isn’t near the strongest candidate to defeat Trump, and every day we let this go on just solidifies another Trump presidency. Again, it’s not about Biden’s positions at this point. Most know them. It’s about his PR gaffes that have and continue to happen and how the public perceives them and how the Trump campaign is capitalizing off them. I think that if you want to defeat Trump and you don’t see Biden as being the guy, you are trying anything you can to win.

That being said, time continues to pass. Biden will have to be forced out, it seems, if it happens at all. If this continues, it becomes a game of diminishing returns where askiing him to stand down a month now no longer is in a way to actually replace him, but just adds dead weight. Now, that timing? I don’t have the exact numbers to tell you what time is left to do anything productive if anything is to be done at all. Some people say everyone who speaks out now is that dead weight. Some say it’s necessary but time is certainly running out. Every day I think the hype around getting him to stand down starts to die down, I hear more rumblings about it.

This isn’t going to be pretty in any way you look at it, IMO. I hate saying that.

This is exactly how I'm feeling, thanks for posting this. I've largely stayed out of this thread since the debate because it's become such a circular firing squad with pro/anti-Biden sides drawn and an inability to see the other sides point. To be honest I don't really know what is best course for defeating Trump in the election at this point. Biden has been mostly a good president that has lead our country through some very difficult and turbulent times. Not only has he had to deal with once in a lifetime crisis like COVID (which I currently have), inflation, Russia's war on Ukraine and Hamas attack on Israel and subsequent war, but he's also had to deal with constant obstruction for Trump and the Republicans. I haven't agreed with all of his policies (manly how he dealt with the Israel/Hamas conflict), but all things considered he really has accomplished a lot. I shudder to think were we would be today if Trump had won in 2020. It seems like the anti-Biden crowd have largely forgotten all of that and grown resentful of Biden because of either how he's dealt with the Israel/Hamas conflict or because of fear of him losing the election because of his age and lapses.

On the other side of the coin, the pro-Biden side has become almost obstinate in their defense of Biden and their belief that Biden is the only Democrat candidate that can win the election. They continue to cast aside valid concerns about his age, any age related mental decline and his ability to serve another 4 years as president. As well as whether or not he can convince those middle of the road voters to vote for him. Even as most of those concerns have come from people who have been loyal Biden supporters for 4 years and have had recent interactions with him.

Then there's the media at large who have turned all of their attention and coverage of Biden and his eminent demise, as if almost hoping for it. We've long known that coverage of Trump/Biden has been asymmetric, but it has kicked into overdrive since the debate. I was reading this article on CNN yesterday about the new conference and they're even now making justifications for Trump's non-existent campaigning, even as Biden has done just about every form of public campaigning in the last 2 weeks.

Part of Biden’s problem at the debate last month is that he was not able to effectively counter Trump, call out the former president’s lies and distinguish himself from his predecessor while he was standing just feet away from him.

He didn’t have the same problem on Thursday, lashing out at Trump’s record and his lack of public events since the debate.

“My schedule has been full bore. I’ve done — where’s Trump been? Riding on his golf cart, filling out his scorecard before he hits the ball? I mean, look. He’s done virtually nothing,” Biden said.

But Trump hasn’t had to do anything since then. With the bulk of the national attention on Biden and his missteps, Trump and his campaign have made a strategic point of letting the president continue digging himself in a hole.

Takeaways from Biden’s critical NATO news conference | CNN Politics

President Joe Biden on Thursday participated in the most high-stakes news conference of his political career on the sidelines of the NATO summit, aiming to convince his detractors and supporters that is he able to serve another four years in office.

edition.cnn.com

I realize that this is somewhat typical media behavior of pushing controversy for clicks and profit, but you'd think given the stakes of this election and their duty the media would be a little more balanced in its coverage.

I myself do not know what the best course of action is for the Democrats, but I know that Biden is the only one who can make the decision to step aside. I like many others, have real concerns about Biden's ability to serve another 4-year term given what we've seen recently and his continued lapses. While I realize that the election of a president isn't just about the one person but about the entire administration and his policies, going into an election with the rationalization that "even if you think Biden is too old, his administration and policies are better", isn't a very strong hand to be playing. Voters have a right to expect that the person whom they elect as president is going serve his entire term and be able to work late and handle crisis at 2 am in the morning if required. Then on the flip side of that I have no confidence that the Democrats would be able to pull of a switch at the this late stage. We've already had runaway speculation of who should replace Biden, many of them ignoring realities of what it takes to run an election. The last time Democrats did this, it was a mess and they lost the election. Why would this time be different, especially when you consider Biden is without a doubt the most qualified candidate?

Here are a few things that I do believe:
1.) Biden is the only one that can make the decision to step aside, he's earned that much. I think it's reasonable for voters and supporters to express their concerns and even frustrations with is candidacy, but that shouldn't turn into resentment of Biden. If he stays in the race, he will need our support to defeat Trump. Ultimately that is the most important thing.

2.) If Biden does step aside, I don't believe having a mini-primary is the best course of action. This sounds good in theory with the potential to drive excitement, but I think it also has the potential to drive division and discontent with people siloing into camps for their perspective candidates. It doesn't leave the request amount of time for people to leave behind their discontent to rally around the chosen candidate. Thus it has the potential to fracture the Democratic coalition even further.

3.) The second point leaves me to believe that Harris is really the only logical and realistic candidate to replace Biden as the presidential candidate. This would require a coming together from all sides to support her, will that happen?

4.) I think Biden may still be able to beat Trump, but I am not convinced of that. Harris has less negatives than Trump or Biden and has the national name recognition as well. I think she can beat Trump, but it would really require unity among the Democrats to support her and that is not their strong suit.

5.) A wet paper bag is more qualified than Trump to be president.

 

[Incumbent]

Interesting question. My thought is, do red states even matter in an electoral college system?

I understand why your you’re asking but I would say anything that would disenfranchise millions of voters matters. The bigger concern, though, is the effect it could have for down ballot races.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Okay, this is just getting nerve-rackingly confusing.

Gavin Newsom tells "CBS News Sunday Morning" he is "all in" with President Biden

Preview: In an interview airing July 14, the California governor says he deletes all requests to enter the presidential race.

www.cbsnews.com

Biden, Jeffries meet as some House Democrats call on him to leave 2024 campaign

A growing number of Democrats, particularly those with tough races, are calling on President Biden to exit the 2024 presidential campaign.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[DaveXA]

I understand why your you’re asking but I would say anything that would disenfranchise millions of voters matters. The bigger concern, though, is the effect it could have for down ballot races.

I'm not really sure how it would affect down ballot. I think people who plan on voting at gonna vote regardless. I could be wrong tho.

 

[DaveXA]

Okay, this is just getting nerve-rackingly confusing.

Gavin Newsom tells "CBS News Sunday Morning" he is "all in" with President Biden

Preview: In an interview airing July 14, the California governor says he deletes all requests to enter the presidential race.

www.cbsnews.com

Biden, Jeffries meet as some House Democrats call on him to leave 2024 campaign

A growing number of Democrats, particularly those with tough races, are calling on President Biden to exit the 2024 presidential campaign.

www.cbsnews.com

Newsom doesn't surprise me. He's been pretty consistent in his support of Biden. I think he's sticking with Biden until he actually drops out.

I don't think he wants people to think he's trying to run for President.

 

[Incumbent]

I'm not really sure how it would affect down ballot. I think people who plan on voting at gonna vote regardless. I could be wrong tho.

Presidential elections tend to turn out the most voters. If the Democratic candidate isn’t on the ballot, it could suppress enthusiasm for other races, some of which could be competitive. If one side gets to vote for their presidential candidate, and the other doesn’t, it creates an uneven playing field that could impact all races.

 

[DaveXA]

Presidential elections tend to turn out the most voters. If that’s not on the ballot, it could suppress enthusiasm for other races, some of which could be competitive. If one side gets to vote for their presidential candidate, and the other doesn’t, it creates an uneven playing field that could impact all races.

If no one is on the ballot, sure, but someone will be on the ballot. I don't think the DNC is gonna allow a blank ballot to happen regardless of the state. That wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Incumbent]

If no one is on the ballot, sure, but someone will be on the ballot. I don't the DNC is gonna allow a blank ballot to happen regardless of the state. That wouldn't make any sense.

I had edited it to specify the Democratic candidate, which is the hypothetical being discussed. If Dems in Texas can’t vote for their party’s nominee like Republicans can, I think that could very likely have a negative impact. Margins in some races are razor thin. There is no way I think voters will be just as enthusiastic to go stand in line to vote if their presidential candidate isn’t on the ballot, and I absolutely think that would hurt somebody like Colin Allred who is in a tight race against Ted Cruz.

 

[Incumbent]

To be clear, I’m only speaking to the hypothetical. I don’t know how different state rules might come into play.

 

[Dragon]

Besides some supposedly red states actually voted Biden last time

 

[GrandAdmiral]

What do they all have in common?

I don't mind being the ink spot on that sheet of paper if you think there's a problem and Obama is too scared to do so.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Okay, this is just getting nerve-rackingly confusing.

Biden, Jeffries meet as some House Democrats call on him to leave 2024 campaign

A growing number of Democrats, particularly those with tough races, are calling on President Biden to exit the 2024 presidential campaign.

www.cbsnews.com

And from that...