First presidential debate (3 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    I’ve already said there is no way I’m voting for Biden. There isn’t a single election that matters where I live that isn’t a R landslide, so my vote isn’t important.

    I do want Biden to win if he’s the Trump alternative, it’s just not going to happen.

    The electoral college format sucks but I think even the symbolic stand against MAGA has importance.

    I’m voting blue in a red state because I’m not going to spend the next four months warning about the dangers of MAGA and then sit this one out. I’m also not going to spend the next four months dragging the only side that can stop Trump.
     
    I think a great analogy would be drawing 4 cards in 5 card draw when all we have Jack high.

    It’ll be one card, though, and it has to be a better card. Biden is struggling but he’s not sunk yet. It’s not a given that an alternate candidate will outperform him.
     
    Also, you don't seem to take in account something simple. Things can get a lot worse under Biden.

    I do take that into account and have shared those concerns in this thread.

    Others don’t seem to want to take into account the possibility that Democratic chances can get worse with another candidate. All of this is based on a great deal of uncertainty.
     
    Voters who will abandon democracy and vulnerable citizens because of a war between Hamas and Israel are in a cult.

    Yawn.

    If I lived in a state that mattered, i'd be voting for Biden.

    My vote has no relevance.
     
    The electoral college format sucks but I think even the symbolic stand against MAGA has importance.

    I’m voting blue in a red state because I’m not going to spend the next four months warning about the dangers of MAGA and then sit this one out. I’m also not going to spend the next four months dragging the only side that can stop Trump.

    Biden on the ticket guarantees MAGA taking over all three branches of government.

    We're going to get a dozen more amoral morons like MTG and Bobert, and dozens more amoral smart people like Josh Hawley and Lindsey Graham. They will appoint two more justices to SCOTUS.

    Taking Biden off the ticket gives us a tiny chance which is infinitely better than no chance.

    If Biden wins it will be because something comes out about Trump that is worse than anything we've seen and is undeniable by everyone but the most diehard cultists, not because Biden beat Trump.
     
    I’m having to assume what you meant. Most people are disagreeing about the best way for Democrats to move forward, not acting out of an unbreakable loyalty to Biden.
    That’s why his and others comments are so completely out of line, imo. Just egregiously arrogant.
     
    Others don’t seem to want to take into account the possibility that Democratic chances can get worse with another candidate. All of this is based on a great deal of uncertainty.

    Who in your mind deserves blame if Democrats run Biden in a few months and lose?
     
    Who in your mind deserves blame if Democrats run Biden in a few months and lose?

    Biden + his family + inner circle

    I've said this before but also the primary process.

    Biden not running in 2016 may have cost us the election

    No one running against Biden 2024 may cost us the election.

    This attitude, or atmosphere, or whatever the ostracization that happens from taking a shot needs to end. Competition is healthy for the party. It's part of the process that will give us the best candidate. It should be encouraged, not discouraged.
     
    If I lived in a state that mattered, i'd be voting for Biden.

    My vote has no relevance.

    I think there’s more to it than that. I’m a middle aged white guy who is terrified of what a Trump victory will mean for my wife, millions of other women, and to vulnerable groups of people in our society. I will do what I can to help Biden (or any other candidate) get elected. Donations, volunteering, and discussions about what is at stake, and encouraging people to support the Democratic ticket. It’s more than just my one vote.
     
    There is no chance Biden wins short of something like video of Trump raping a child coming out. In that case it wouldn’t matter who the nominee was.

    MAGA is about to have all three branches of government.
    You dont know that and the polls do not support your claim
     
    I think there’s more to it than that. I’m a middle aged white guy who is terrified of what a Trump victory will mean for my wife, millions of other women, and to vulnerable groups of people in our society. I will do what I can to help Biden (or any other candidate) get elected. Donations, volunteering, and discussions about what is at stake, and encouraging people to support the Democratic ticket. It’s more than just my one vote.

    No offense to anyone, I don't understand arguing against Biden, and then also say your not voting for him. I'll vote for whoever is up there. I just disagree about our chances with JRB.
     
    Who in your mind deserves blame if Democrats run Biden in a few months and lose?

    If the Democratic ticket loses, I will blame everybody who didn’t vote for the Democratic ticket. I understand what the stakes of this election are and that transcends the name on the ballot.

    Some are assuming there is a clearly better alternate path. I’m saying, repeatedly, I don’t know.
     
    You dont know that and the polls do not support your claim
    The polls most certainly do do show that. The polls currently show Trump at close to 300 electoral votes. That would bring comfortable majorities for him in the house and senate.
     
    I think there’s more to it than that. I’m a middle aged white guy who is terrified of what a Trump victory will mean for my wife, millions of other women, and to vulnerable groups of people in our society. I will do what I can to help Biden (or any other candidate) get elected. Donations, volunteering, and discussions about what is at stake, and encouraging people to support the Democratic ticket. It’s more than just my one vote.

    Supporting Joe Biden at this moment guarantees a Trump victory.
     
    If the Democratic ticket loses, I will blame everybody who didn’t vote for the Democratic ticket. I understand what the stakes of this election are and that transcends the name on the ballot.

    Some are assuming there is a clearly better alternate path. I’m saying, repeatedly, I don’t know.

    Noted. Do you think that the Democratic Party itself deserves any blame in this?

    I’m asking because I think the appeal of a party to provide voters an attractive alternative is a huge part of this. I’ve been saying for years that the Democrats seem to not mind moving in a more conservative direction if they need to. And many of us haven’t been happy with that trend.
     
    I think it might take Nancy, Chuck, Jefferies, and Obama having an intervention at this point to get him to step down.

    It feels like having to take the keys away from a belligerent old guy.

    He also doesn't seem to grasp that history won't remember him or his family as "Oh well he tried his goodest."
     
    The idea that if everyone who had doubts would just be quiet and not voice their concerns
    What I am trying to say is that all these crazy ideas being floated by pundits, and donors publicly are actually damaging the democratic cause in this election. Not to mention it is probably only making Biden more stubborn about dropping out, I have a feeling. If donors and politicians have concerns they need to voice them in private to Biden himself, or the cabinet who can actually do something about it. But all these ideas - some sort of reality TV event hosted by Bill Clinton and Obama, or else hosted by Oprah and Taylor Swift, or simply pretending the primaries didn’t happen and starting over - make the Democratic Party look like a clown show.

    We don’t have a mechanism to replace him, really, even if he steps aside. We would be throwing out every primary result. These were valid primaries no different than any other times an incumbent president runs for office. But the idea that some people (pundits, pollsters, an actor) can force Biden off the ticket is literally insane. It goes against everything that democracy stands for.

    And the response that there wasn’t really a primary is just signaling a willingness to throw out elections when you don’t like the result. But people who want to consider the actual election results are in a cult?

    Biden is currently doing the job, he is not senile, no matter how much some people want him to be so they can just get rid of him. People are actually saying they would use polling as an excuse to force a legitimate candidate who has locked up the nomination in the normal manner off the ticket? And then calling people who disagree, or at least want to pump the brakes cultists is just too much.

    Nobody in here is in a cult. That’s a smear tactic and I think there’s a good chance it is being used to try to silence those of us who have views different than the ones using the smear. It’s been very disheartening and disillusioning to me to see how quickly people on the left have gone there because they don’t like people disagreeing
     
    Noted. Do you think that the Democratic Party itself deserves any blame in this?

    I’m asking because I think the appeal of a party to provide voters an attractive alternative is a huge part of this. I’ve been saying for years that the Democrats seem to not mind moving in a more conservative direction if they need to. And many of us haven’t been happy with that trend.

    I frequently don’t get what I want in elections, whether it’s the candidates or the outcomes. You’d be preaching to the choir.

    Complaining about the choices at election time is too late. I realize there is a special set of circumstances that cracks that door open now, but if Biden is replaced, it’s not going to be with a further left candidate. (And Biden has some accomplishments that frankly surprised me given the dysfunction of congress and having to find paths that worked.)

    I usually vote for the more progressive candidate in the primary, and then the candidate who still most closely aligns with my beliefs, or who I think will do the least amount of damage to the future of the vision I have for our country.

    All that to say, I’m a progressive who has accepted that this is a marginally center-right country and progress happens slower than I’d like.
     

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