First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    I’m having to assume what you meant. Most people are disagreeing about the best way for Democrats to move forward, not acting out of an unbreakable loyalty to Biden.

    No, many people in this thread are in denial about Joe Biden's mental capability.

    shirt on the polls all you want, but Biden is about 8 points from where he needs to be nationally, and he is incapable of motivating the electorate.

    The fear of Trump well is spent. No one who isn't already going to vote out of fear of Trump is going to vote because we try to make them more afraid of Trump.

    People need something to vote for, and Biden does not have the capability to be that.
     
    No, many people in this thread are in denial about Joe Biden's mental capability.

    shirt on the polls all you want, but Biden is about 8 points from where he needs to be nationally, and he is incapable of motivating the electorate.

    The fear of Trump well is spent. No one who isn't already going to vote out of fear of Trump is going to vote because we try to make them more afraid of Trump.

    People need something to vote for, and Biden does not have the capability to be that.

    And that’s the disagreement I’m talking about.

    So people who don’t see this the way you do are cultists? That’s…interesting.
     
    Correct.
    And that’s the disagreement I’m talking about.

    So people who don’t see this the way you do are cultists? That’s…interesting.

    Anyone who thinks Biden is fit to run for reelection, or even be the President at this moment, is in a cult.
     

    So if people disagree with you about Biden they are in the Blue MAGA cult? What are the motivations and objectives of this cult?

    I believe everybody in this discussion who has expressed uncertainty about forcing Biden out has made it clear they will vote for the Democratic ticket, regardless.
     
    If the 2020 version of Joe Biden is running against Trump in 2024, it wouldn't be a race. The only reason Trump has a chance is because he's running against the 2024 version of Joe Biden. Call it whatever you want, but that's the facts.

    2024 Joe Biden can still beat Trump......but it's a toss up and Biden is playing from behind.
     
    I have concerns about Biden as the candidate. I have concerns about a contested convention and trying to sell voters on a new candidate in four months. I don’t see a certain way forward.

    Personally I think a new candidate would give the party life - even with 3/4 months before the election. I don’t think changing up the candidate will be a net negative, and yes - I fully understand the implications and complexity, as well as the downsides to this scenario as well. Even with that, it’s It feels like we’re looking the other way while the Biden administration white knuckles a hugely important election.
    If the 2020 version of Joe Biden is running against Trump in 2024, it wouldn't be a race. The only reason Trump has a chance is because he's running against the 2024 version of Joe Biden. Call it whatever you want, but that's the facts.

    2024 Joe Biden can still beat Trump......but it's a toss up and Biden is playing from behind.

    Exactly.
     
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    If the 2020 version of Joe Biden is running against Trump in 2024, it wouldn't be a race. The only reason Trump has a chance is because he's running against the 2024 version of Joe Biden. Call it whatever you want, but that's the facts.

    2024 Joe Biden can still beat Trump......but it's a toss up and Biden is playing from behind.

    The 2024 version of Trump is certainly awful.

    The 2012 version of Obama was in a close race to the end against Romney. Gallup’s final election survey had it Romney 49% Obama 48%.

    This is a circular conversation at this point. Both candidates are old and showing signs of their age. Nobody disputes that. The disagreement is which path is best for Democrats. I’m increasingly uncertain.
     
    So if people disagree with you about Biden they are in the Blue MAGA cult? What are the motivations and objectives of this cult?

    I believe everybody in this discussion who has expressed uncertainty about forcing Biden out has made it clear they will vote for the Democratic ticket, regardless.

    There is a 0% chance that if Biden is on the ticket, the Dems win.

    Trump has significantly outperformed the polls in every general election that he has been on the ballot. Trump is currently polling about +10 from where he was polling this time in 2020.

    Joe needed to make up ground with the debate. Even if he had just had a draw, we'd be in serious trouble. Instead, he had the worst presidential debate in history. It was miles worse than Nixon against JFK.

    The only undecided voters in this election are those who haven't decided whether or not to vote. They aren't going to be motivated by telling them that Trump is an existential threat. If they don't already believe that by now, they aren't going to believe it. We aren't going to get those people off the couch by running a grandpa who is clearly loosing his ability to be fully functional.

    There isn't much chance that the dems will be able to pull off switching the ticket without screwing things up, but not much chance is better than no chance.

    So yes, people who are trying to argue that Biden isn't going senile, and think that he can beat Trump, are in a cult, and they are going to ensure a MAGA takeover of all three branches of government and a Trump dictatorship.
     
    Personally I think a new candidate would give the party life - even with 3/4 months before the election. I don’t think changing up the candidate will be a net negative, and yes - I fully understand the implications and complexity, as well as the downsides to this scenario as well. Even with that, it’s It feels like we’re looking the other way while the Biden administration white knuckles a hugely important election.


    Exactly.

    That’s a feeling and it might be right. It might not. The limited polling we have isn’t painting a certain picture of that at all. J-Donk posted recent polling numbers that showed all of the top mentioned candidates trailing Biden against Trump.

    Will it be exciting and unifying for the party if they pass up Harris? Does Harris have the nationwide appeal to win the election?
     
    Correct.


    Anyone who thinks Biden is fit to run for reelection, or even be the President at this moment, is in a cult.
    I'm on board that we would be better off with Biden not running for re-election, but it is totally wrong to label the democratic party as a cult. I think Biden was treated like every other incumbent, especially those that had done a good job, so I get why few wouldn't speak of infirmity until recently. Democrats were giving Biden a longer glideslope than most. The fact that many democrats are now willing to speak out without losing their jobs or reputation shows it isn't a cult. Biden's biggest fault is his infirmity, not the litany of Trump's flaws, which are contrary to everything the Republican party has stood for. People support Trump obsequiously. Biden is a very traditional democrat that is admired for his character and actions, but most Democrats aren't obsequious.

    I don't believe Biden will be able to do the job well for 4 more years, and we have a better chance with many other candidates, but many people that don't want him to step down have varied reasons. I think some of their reasons have validity, which is not cultish. Cults don't have debates. They just salute their leader.
     
    There is a 0% chance that if Biden is on the ticket, the Dems win.

    Trump has significantly outperformed the polls in every general election that he has been on the ballot. Trump is currently polling about +10 from where he was polling this time in 2020.

    Joe needed to make up ground with the debate. Even if he had just had a draw, we'd be in serious trouble. Instead, he had the worst presidential debate in history. It was miles worse than Nixon against JFK.

    The only undecided voters in this election are those who haven't decided whether or not to vote. They aren't going to be motivated by telling them that Trump is an existential threat. If they don't already believe that by now, they aren't going to believe it. We aren't going to get those people off the couch by running a grandpa who is clearly loosing his ability to be fully functional.

    There isn't much chance that the dems will be able to pull off switching the ticket without screwing things up, but not much chance is better than no chance.

    So yes, people who are trying to argue that Biden isn't going senile, and think that he can beat Trump, are in a cult, and they are going to ensure a MAGA takeover of all three branches of government and a Trump dictatorship.

    Thank you for moving on from the one-liners and accusations and putting together a substantive post. I think you make some fair points. Saying Biden has a 0% is a completely arbitrary opinion, however, but one you’re entitled to. (Pollsters don’t agree with you, fwiw).

    I have concerns about whether Biden can win the election so I don’t need to be convinced to accept that. I think the options are few, though, and don’t fill me with a great deal of conference, either.

    I don’t agree that people can’t be persuaded to understand the harm of Trump’s vision for the country. We are all dialed in a lot more than the average person. There are indications that a lot of people don’t know about Project 25 and Agenda 47, or don’t understand them very well, yet.
     
    But he's kept Dee Snider




    It doesn't make sense when people say we need Biden because Trump is so horrible, because Biden is not the only democrat that would fight Trump's agenda, and many more are more likely to beat Trump, since the focus would be Trump's horrible policies, rather than if Trump's opponent can survive.

    P.S. I wholeheartedly agree with George Clooney's article. I encourage everyone to read it.
     
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    I'm on board that we would be better off with Biden not running for re-election, but it is totally wrong to label the democratic party as a cult. I think Biden was treated like every other incumbent, especially those that had done a good job, so I get why few wouldn't speak of infirmity until recently. Democrats were giving Biden a longer glideslope than most. The fact that many democrats are now willing to speak out without losing their jobs or reputation shows it isn't a cult. Biden's biggest fault is his infirmity, not the litany of Trump's flaws, which are contrary to everything the Republican party has stood for. People support Trump obsequiously. Biden is a very traditional democrat that is admired for his character and actions, but most Democrats aren't obsequious.

    I don't believe Biden will be able to do the job well for 4 more years, and we have a better chance with many other candidates, but many people that don't want him to step down have varied reasons. I think some of their reasons have validity, which is not cultish. Cults don't have debates. They just salute their leader.

    I’m not calling all of the democrats cultists.

    The Republican Party had a pretty intense debate going on in 2016 back when only some of them weren’t in a cult.
     

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