First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[Incumbent]

Supporting Joe Biden at this moment guarantees a Trump victory.

I understand that’s your opinion.

 

[MT15]

I think it might take Nancy, Chuck, Jefferies, and Obama having an intervention at this point to get him to step down.

It feels like having to take the keys away from a belligerent old guy.

He also doesn't seem to grasp that history won't remember him or his family as "Oh well he tried his goodest."

This is exactly what should happen if he is as dire as some people say. Or get the Cabinet involved. Floating crazy reality TV scenarios and sniping at him in public is just the worst way to do this.

 

[Incumbent]

I think it might take Nancy, Chuck, Jefferies, and Obama having an intervention at this point to get him to step down.

It feels like having to take the keys away from a belligerent old guy.

He also doesn't seem to grasp that history won't remember him or his family as "Oh well he tried his goodest."

I’m asking because I realize I don’t know the answer. Who, in the party, has had a one-on-one with Biden and emerged from that emphatic that he shouldn’t run?

 

[J-DONK]

What I am trying to say is that all these crazy ideas being floated by pundits, and donors publicly are actually damaging the democratic cause in this election. Not to mention it is probably only making Biden more stubborn about dropping out, I have a feeling. If donors and politicians have concerns they need to voice them in private to Biden himself, or the cabinet who can actually do something about it. But all these ideas - some sort of reality TV event hosted by Bill Clinton and Obama, or else hosted by Oprah and Taylor Swift, or simply pretending the primaries didn’t happen and starting over - make the Democratic Party look like a clown show.

We don’t have a mechanism to replace him, really, even if he steps aside. We would be throwing out every primary result. These were valid primaries no different than any other times an incumbent president runs for office. But the idea that some people (pundits, pollsters, an actor) can force Biden off the ticket is literally insane. It goes against everything that democracy stands for.

And the response that there wasn’t really a primary is just signaling a willingness to throw out elections when you don’t like the result. But people who want to consider the actual election results are in a cult?

Biden is currently doing the job, he is not senile, no matter how much some people want him to be so they can just get rid of him. People are actually saying they would use polling as an excuse to force a legitimate candidate who has locked up the nomination in the normal manner off the ticket? And then calling people who disagree, or at least want to pump the brakes cultists is just too much.

Nobody in here is in a cult. That’s a smear tactic and I think there’s a good chance it is being used to try to silence those of us who have views different than the ones using the smear. It’s been very disheartening and disillusioning to me to see how quickly people on the left have gone there because they don’t like people disagreeing

You replied to his comment but you could use his comment as a summary of this explanation.

This 100% sounds like a blue MAGA.

The blame if Biden loses won't be on pundits, and insiders who pleaded with him to step down.

It's asinine to even suggest it.

Some of you on this board sound insane right now.

 

[Dragon]

The polls most certainly do do show that. The polls currently show Trump at close to 300 electoral votes. That would bring comfortable majorities for him in the house and senate.

Non of the other potential candidates scores higher than Biden - NONE

 

[CoolBrees]

He is entitled to his opinion, but if he is such a huge fundraiser and close to Biden, wouldn’t it be better to communicate this privately? I am pretty tired of men telling me that Biden needs to go with no serious plan for a replacement. The men who are gung-ho on replacement, especially those who are calling for some sort of open primary process or some sort of reality show type super debate with moderators ranging from absurd to worse, are really getting on my nerves.

They are willing to gamble everything for this long shot idea of replacing a candidate after the primaries have been held, and the candidate has won the nomination, for all intents and purposes. It’s never been done before, not successfully. These pundits and celebrities won’t suffer one iota of discomfort if Trump is elected. To them this is just an acceptable gamble.

For a whole lot of regular people, the stakes are just too high. If Biden decides to step aside, that would be one thing. But from what I can tell, public calls for him to step aside are having the opposite effect. They are stiffening his resolve to stay in. I don’t blame him. He’s done an excellent job.

So to George Clooney, respectfully, shut up.

You and I go way back. I hope you know me well enough to know I am sincere,

I don't have social media other than this site, SSF and LinkedIn. I don't even have cable let alone watch cable news. I read Reuter's, AP for news.

I watched the whole debate, from beginning to end, live and I have watched every gut wrenching moment again, twice since. Each time hoping to see something different.

I agree with Clooney, and I too have been one of his biggest supporters (on this site, not to the magnitude Clooney has). I too, share in his heartbreak of the situation.

Despite my longevity here and SR my post history is relatively short, so it isn't hard to find me standing up for Biden's economy and his job performance.

I dont think you are in the tank for Biden. I think you are saying what you think will save America.

You can disagree with how we defeat this threat, fine. But to act like people just need to shut up and vote is going to cause a disaster neither of us want.

As George said, much more succinctly that I:
"Stop telling 51 million people we didn't see what we all saw."

He loves Joe Biden and is with him a lot. He has been the head of the three largest fundraisers for Biden for crying out loud. He isn't some pundit. He is speaking from his experience knowing Joe Biden for over 20 years.

If you haven't rewatched the debate, please do. It's even more jarring to me because I knew what was coming and hoped I had overreacted.

I am not advocating removing Biden; I don't see anyone doing that to be honest. That can't be done as it would completely seal our fate and tear the left and the country apart.

I am advocating for him to save America one more time like he did in 2020.

And I do believe a hyper campaign would allow the DNC to change the topic from Joe Biden's age and acumen to the visions the candidates have while attacking Trump from multiple fronts. Vision only. No mud slinging.

And an open convention would be exciting with each getting a night as the keynote before the vote. And out of the convention the party would be united behind a single ticket with no real time to conduct opposition research.

I wish it was different . I would rather have it first and goal up 4 at the 2 minute warning and get to run it in from the goal line. That is what I was expecting until debate night.

Now, I am suggesting we take the ball at our own 30 down 4 because it is better than trying to run out the clock in a prevent.

I love Joe, but time is undefeated.

 

[J-DONK]

Non of the other potential candidates scores higher than Biden - NONE

The rest of the candidates can complete sentences, and thoughts.

 

[Dragon]

The rest of the candidates can complete sentences, and thoughts.

So can Biden and has shown it multiple times after the debate...

Fact still is that Biden is the one with the best numbers against Trump....

 

[J-DONK]

So can Biden and has shown it multiple times after the debate...

Fact still is that Biden is the one with the best numbers against Trump....

He has failed almost every single time since that debate.

Most of that polling appears to be simply exposure. Kamala is second, Newsome third, Whitmer fourth. That's exactly the order of their national presence.

 

[Incumbent]

You replied to his comment but you could use his comment as a summary of this explanation.

This 100% sounds like a blue MAGA.

The blame if Biden loses won't be on pundits, and insiders who pleaded with him to step down.

It's asinine to even suggest it.

Some of you on this board sound insane right now.

That is terribly unfair. There are a lot of opinions I read on this board, from people on my side of the aisle, that I strongly disagree with, but don’t instinctively proclaim them cultists or Blue MAGA.

I understand MT15’s concern that the swift public calls for Biden to step aside are probably doing more harm than good, even if they get the intended result.

If Biden stays in, and is nominated through the formal process, what is the lane back to unification for all these people proclaiming he can’t win or shouldn’t be in the race? I heard one elected official say Biden can’t win and literally nothing would have been lost by simply phrasing that as I have concerns that Biden can’t win. Anybody who claims to know with certainty who can or can’t win is talking out of their ***.

I do fear that we could be creating fractures that won’t be easily repaired in time.

 

[not2rich]

If the Democratic ticket loses, I will blame everybody who didn’t vote for the Democratic ticket. I understand what the stakes of this election are and that transcends the name on the ballot.

Some are assuming there is a clearly better alternate path. I’m saying, repeatedly, I don’t know.

I agree. It's not the media's or the Democratic party's responsibility to protect the country against Trump - that's on American voters.

That said, I do have a certain level of anger and resentment toward Biden and the Democratic party for allowing the situation to come to this. In a fantasy world, I'd want a Shapiro/Whitmer ticket right now, but in the real world I recognize alternative options are risky or unrealistic if not impossible at this point. The only alternative I KNOW is possible is for Biden to resign the Presidency, right now, and Harris becomes President... and then we see what happens next. And honestly, I'll take that over where this looks to be heading.

Because if Biden isn't going to to that, or announce he's withdrawing his candidacy, I don't see any world where Biden's approval ratings improve between now and November. He's not capable of changing the perception of anyone who's decided he's too old, and if anything that perception will only get worse as we move forward. As the election nears, Democratic Senators and representatives are going to realize at some point that Biden is going to take some of them down with him, they'll finally panic for real and want to actually force him out, and by then it will be too late. In this scenario, our only hope is what J-Donk alluded to - maybe not quite Trump raping a kid, but Trump's approval ratings have to take a significant hit for some reason. Maybe focusing on Project 2025 will do that, but I'm not optimistic.

 

[MT15]

You replied to his comment but you could use his comment as a summary of this explanation.

This 100% sounds like a blue MAGA.

The blame if Biden loses won't be on pundits, and insiders who pleaded with him to step down.

It's asinine to even suggest it.

I’m not suggesting that - I’m once again pointing out a political reality. All this crazy talk in public is damaging the Democratic Party. You want to talk about down ballot effects? Fine - this crazy talk is hurting the party. Make the case in private. Gather Obama, Clinton, whoever you need to convince him. But public sniping at him is ridiculous.

You and I go way back. I hope you know me well enough to know I am sincere,

I don't have social media other than this site, SSF and LinkedIn. I don't even have cable let alone watch cable news. I read Reuter's, AP for news.

I watched the whole debate, from beginning to end, live and I have watched every gut wrenching moment again, twice since. Each time hoping to see something different.

I agree with Clooney, and I too have been one of his biggest supporters (on this site, not to the magnitude Clooney has). I too, share in his heartbreak of the situation.

Despite my longevity here and SR my post history is relatively short, so it isn't hard to find me standing up for Biden's economy and his job performance.

I dont think you are in the tank for Biden. I think you are saying what you think will save America.

You can disagree with how we defeat this threat, fine. But to act like people just need to shut up and vote is going to cause a disaster neither of us want.

As George said, much more succinctly that I:
"Stop telling 51 million people we didn't see what we all saw."

He loves Joe Biden and is with him a lot. He has been the head of the three largest fundraisers for Biden for crying out loud. He isn't some pundit. He is speaking from his experience knowing Joe Biden for over 20 years.

If you haven't rewatched the debate, please do. It's even more jarring to me because I knew what was coming and hoped I had overreacted.

I am not advocating removing Biden; I don't see anyone doing that to be honest. That can't be done as it would completely seal our fate and tear the left and the country apart.

I am advocating for him to save America one more time like he did in 2020.

And I do believe a hyper campaign would allow the DNC to change the topic from Joe Biden's age and acumen to the visions the candidates have while attacking Trump from multiple fronts. Vision only. No mud slinging.

And an open convention would be exciting with each getting a night as the keynote before the vote. And out of the convention the party would be united behind a single ticket with no real time to conduct opposition research.

I wish it was different . I would rather have it first and goal up 4 at the 2 minute warning and get to run it in from the goal line. That is what I was expecting until debate night.

Now, I am suggesting we take the ball at our own 30 down 4 because it is better than trying to run out the clock in a prevent.

I love Joe, but time is undefeated.

I have so much respect for you, you know that. I’m fine with your thinking - I get it totally. But the cable news shows and Twitter are a cesspool already. And then to come here and get called a cultist and blue MAGA is just about too much to take.

The truth is it has to be Biden’s decision. Other than declaring him mentally incompetent and removing him from office, there’s no way to force him off the ballot at this point in time. And publicly calling him out just gets him more fired up about staying and makes the entire party look like a clown show. This needs to be handled with dignity. I realize it’s too late for that already, though.

I don’t think it will go well if Harris is by-passed and it’s very easy to see that a whole bunch of male pundits are itching to get past her. They’ve gone on record in some places. This would split the party wide open and for sure Trump would win. Or even if women and black people and other minorities suck it up and vote for the replacement, the democrats will have lost in so many other ways by pushing Harris to the side.

Ideally, if Biden steps aside he will enthusiastically support Harris as his replacement, and she can choose a VP from the list of great choices.

I don’t really want a drama-filled convention. Nope, I want something that will uplift people and sell the democratic platform.

Love you, man.

 

[samiam5211]

Non of the other potential candidates scores higher than Biden - NONE

Every one of them is 100x capable of improving their support than Biden is.

Biden won't be on the ticket.

 

[bdb13]

I agree. It's not the media's or the Democratic party's responsibility to protect the country against Trump - that's on American voters.

That said, I do have a certain level of anger and resentment toward Biden and the Democratic party for allowing the situation to come to this. In a fantasy world, I'd want a Shapiro/Whitmer ticket right now, but in the real world I recognize alternative options are risky or unrealistic if not impossible at this point. The only alternative I KNOW is possible is for Biden to resign the Presidency, right now, and Harris becomes President... and then we see what happens next. And honestly, I'll take that over where this looks to be heading.

Because if Biden isn't going to to that, or announce he's withdrawing his candidacy, I don't see any world where Biden's approval ratings improve between now and November. He's not capable of changing the perception of anyone who's decided he's too old, and if anything that perception will only get worse as we move forward. As the election nears, Democratic Senators and representatives are going to realize at some point that Biden is going to take some of them down with him, they'll finally panic for real and want to actually force him out, and by then it will be too late. In this scenario, our only hope is what J-Donk alluded to - maybe not quite Trump raping a kid, but Trump's approval ratings have to take a significant hit for some reason. Maybe focusing on Project 2025 will do that, but I'm not optimistic.

The anger towards the Biden administration and/or the Democratic party for being in this position is warranted.

They didn't level with the public as to Biden 's current abilities - misled actually in my view as they consistently said that there was no issue - and then put him out there to be completely exposed in the first big event of the 2024 campaign.

They've screwed up, that's for sure.

 

[Incumbent]

I agree. It's not the media's or the Democratic party's responsibility to protect the country against Trump - that's on American voters.

That said, I do have a certain level of anger and resentment toward Biden and the Democratic party for allowing the situation to come to this. In a fantasy world, I'd want a Shapiro/Whitmer ticket right now, but in the real world I recognize alternative options are risky or unrealistic if not impossible at this point. The only alternative I KNOW is possible is for Biden to resign the Presidency, right now, and Harris becomes President... and then we see what happens next. And honestly, I'll take that over where this looks to be heading.

Because if Biden isn't going to to that, or announce he's withdrawing his candidacy, I don't see any world where Biden's approval ratings improve between now and November. He's not capable of changing the perception of anyone who's decided he's too old, and if anything that perception will only get worse as we move forward. As the election nears, Democratic Senators and representatives are going to realize at some point that Biden is going to take some of them down with him, they'll finally panic for real and want to actually force him out, and by then it will be too late. In this scenario, our only hope is what J-Donk alluded to - maybe not quite Trump raping a kid, but Trump's approval ratings have to take a significant hit for some reason. Maybe focusing on Project 2025 will do that, but I'm not optimistic.

I share those concerns and I also wish Biden had chosen to be a one-term president. There are a number of things I wish had gone differently, including; Clinton had won in 2016, one of the younger candidates got the nomination in 2020. People looking for who to blame now, don’t overlook the big steps that got us here.

All the public spectacle feels like taking a wrecking ball to whatever chances we have. I do have to remind myself that there is a lot more going on than we see. Maybe Biden isn’t giving a private audience to people he should? Or maybe the behind the scenes interactions aren’t raising alarm?

I’d like to buy into the excitement of a contested convention but I absolutely don’t see that happening. If it happens, and it elevates the ticket with voters, I will be elated and relieved to be wrong. One fear I have is if we go the contested route and Harris doesn’t emerge as the nominee, we will do insurmountable harm within the base, and I’m not at all convinced she’d be our strongest candidate.

 

[Lapaz]

What I am trying to say is that all these crazy ideas being floated by pundits, and donors publicly are actually damaging the democratic cause in this election. Not to mention it is probably only making Biden more stubborn about dropping out, I have a feeling. If donors and politicians have concerns they need to voice them in private to Biden himself, or the cabinet who can actually do something about it. But all these ideas - some sort of reality TV event hosted by Bill Clinton and Obama, or else hosted by Oprah and Taylor Swift, or simply pretending the primaries didn’t happen and starting over - make the Democratic Party look like a clown show.

We don’t have a mechanism to replace him, really, even if he steps aside. We would be throwing out every primary result. These were valid primaries no different than any other times an incumbent president runs for office. But the idea that some people (pundits, pollsters, an actor) can force Biden off the ticket is literally insane. It goes against everything that democracy stands for.

And the response that there wasn’t really a primary is just signaling a willingness to throw out elections when you don’t like the result. But people who want to consider the actual election results are in a cult?

Biden is currently doing the job, he is not senile, no matter how much some people want him to be so they can just get rid of him. People are actually saying they would use polling as an excuse to force a legitimate candidate who has locked up the nomination in the normal manner off the ticket? And then calling people who disagree, or at least want to pump the brakes cultists is just too much.

Nobody in here is in a cult. That’s a smear tactic and I think there’s a good chance it is being used to try to silence those of us who have views different than the ones using the smear. It’s been very disheartening and disillusioning to me to see how quickly people on the left have gone there because they don’t like people disagreeing

The primaries were a joke. The only opposition was Williamson and Phillips. Williamson is bizarre and Phillips was a rookie that barely anyone knew, and had no chance against the incumbent. If Biden had been speaking incoherently as regularly when the primaries started, I think he might've gotten serious competition. I agree with Clooney that we shouldn't ignore new information. I don't think we can force Biden out, but the pressure campaign may convince him to bow out.

I think Harris is the best bet, but the fact that we have never had a process to choose another candidate, doesn't prevent one from being developed. My idea is do a nationwide campaign with ranked choice voting so it would happen once. Beyond that, there are more controversial things that I would implement, because I'm tired of winning the popular vote by a huge amount, yet losing due to swing states, so I want to cater to them at least to beat Trump. To that end, I would prefer to weigh the choices of the purple states more than the deep blue and red states. I would use the results of the 2020 election. States that voted for or against Biden by more than 10 points would be weighted less than the states that were closer, because they will decide the election. California, Mass, Hawaii, Alabama, Mississippi, are entrenched no matter who the candidate is. Maybe we can just do this for the VP that the swing states prefer.

It's not just the polling, but that is a very good reason to take drastic action. There is not much that is going to damage the cause. We are near bottomed out. By the way, the insults have been flying in both directions from both sides.

 

[bdb13]

Maybe Biden isn’t giving a private audience to people he should? Or maybe the behind the scenes interactions aren’t raising alarm?

I was going to mention the former there, I remember reading how in the debate's aftermath some Democrats were surprised/frustrated that they weren't hearing from Biden directly.

I don't know who he has and has not had meetings with inside the party in the time since (outside of the group of governors), but I would not be surprised at all if it's being controlled in order to prevent an elected Democrat from meeting with him and immediately coming with "yeah, I saw it firsthand and we have to make a change."

 

[J-DONK]

That is terribly unfair. There are a lot of opinions I read on this board, from people on my side of the aisle, that I strongly disagree with, but don’t instinctively proclaim them cultists or Blue MAGA.

I understand MT15’s concern that the swift public calls for Biden to step aside are probably doing more harm than good, even if they get the intended result.

If Biden stays in, and is nominated through the formal process, what is the lane back to unification for all these people proclaiming he can’t win or shouldn’t be in the race? I heard one elected official say Biden can’t win and literally nothing would have been lost by simply phrasing that as I have concerns that Biden can’t win. Anybody who claims to know with certainty who can or can’t win is talking out of their ***.

I do fear that we could be creating fractures that won’t be easily repaired in time.

The idea that people can't voice their concern or it will hurt the incumbent's chances for re-election, ergo they are at fault if he loses.

NO

NOPE

NEVER

I reject that completely.

That's pure blue maga.