Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets (UPDATE: Trump admin. deploying federal LE to cities) (1 Viewer)

[Dragon]

“All United States Marshals Service arrestees have public records of arrest documenting their charges. Our agency did not arrest or detain Mark James Pettibone.”

OPB sent DHS an extensive list of questions about Pettibone’s arrest including: What is the legal justification for making arrests away from federal property? What is the legal justification for searching people who are not participating in criminal activity? Why are federal officers using civilian vehicles and taking people away in them? Are the arrests federal officers make legal under the constitution? If so, how?

After 7 p.m. Thursday, a DHS spokesperson responded, on background, that they could confirm Wolf was in Portland during the day. The spokesperson didn’t acknowledge the remaining questions.

Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets

Federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland and detain protesters since at least July 14.

www.opb.org

This story is very troublesome.

 

[Eeyore]

My worry about the election and the polling of is that people don't tell the dirty truth about themselves. How many suburban housewives are going to openly talk about how enlightened they are and how they're voting for Biden but will vote for Trump because their vote is private? This is part of what happened last time and I see no reason why it won't happen again. It's that, and people are too lazy to vote.

 

[MT15]

This isn’t a game where you can keep score, SFL

Do you think most of the people commiting the violence, looting and vandalism are far right or far left?

This is a nonsensical view of a real problem that can be traced back to 3.5 years of Trump choosing to demonize his political opponents. Trump has absolutely played fear monger, ever since even before he started his campaign last time, really. He has talked this civil unrest into existence, in a way. He has never reached out or acknowledged that he needs to work for both sides of the political spectrum. Rather he dehumanizes people who happen to oppose him politically. When people feel dehumanized, they lash out. This applies to both sides of the political spectrum.

Lots of people have pretended for years that the vile hate that comes from him doesn’t really matter. I think we are reaping the consequences of that hate right now. This is Trump’s America, this is what he foments. He pretends to be for Law and Order, but he really just wants the power to punish his enemies, while ignoring any laws that he chooses for himself and his supporters.

It’s not just me who thinks Trump is trying to divide America:



To prove Ayo’s point he tweeted the crazy quotes below. Does he really think anyone believes that Kenosha would cease to exist if not for him? The only death in Kenosha right now can be attributed to one of his supporters.

Portland, while having some fringe elements on both sides for years, is a very livable city. He isn’t solving anything, he’s just making everything worse, IMO. Is America better today than when he was elected, or worse? Not much case for anything being better.

 

[CoolBrees]

SFL-

If you don’t mind I will answer your question for my city.

the protests are not peaceful, but they are nonviolent. As in property damage. There are those that believe that a peaceful protest only appeases the liberals who watch it but doesn’t accomplish anything. I believe an argument can be made for that. Some agitators do things like throw rocks and point lasers at police causing minor injury. All of that is uncoordinated and just some individuals. Like antifa.

As far as the real violence, that is most definitely right wing- Proud Boys. It is coordinated, and people get seriously injured and killed. It is their mantra for god sakes.

They show up to peaceful protests, start fights with police or fire weapons, then go to a bar and watch protesters take the abuse for their actions. Again this is what they have been doing for years.

 

[coldseat]

My worry about the election and the polling of is that people don't tell the dirty truth about themselves. How many suburban housewives are going to openly talk about how enlightened they are and how they're voting for Biden but will vote for Trump because their vote is private? This is part of what happened last time and I see no reason why it won't happen again. It's that, and people are too lazy to vote.

Yeah, I agree. I know of at least 2 friends who probably voted for Trump last time because he was Republican and "how bad could he be". I think there was a chance they would have voted for Biden this time. But with all of the misinformation and because they side Republican by nature of the conservative christian faith due to the pro-life, I have a feeling they've recently decided to vote for Trump. I don't think either of them are extremely political, but they likely listen to conservative news sources and are very attuned to their religious faith. Given all of the noise, I think they just want harmony (which is counter-intuitive to their choice, at least to me). It seems like they've just thrown their hands up and decided to go with the candidate who's on "God's side" because he appoints pro-life judges. It's a message reinforced by the Catholic Church, so it's not surprising to me. Disappointing that they aren't able to critically think their way through this mess, but not surprised.

This isn't something that will grow his support, but I wonder how many other conservative leaning Republicans/Independents will make the same calculations. This is specifically why I stopped being a one issue voter. It forces you to accept evil and division in order to obtain your goal.

 

[insidejob]

My worry about the election and the polling of is that people don't tell the dirty truth about themselves. How many suburban housewives are going to openly talk about how enlightened they are and how they're voting for Biden but will vote for Trump because their vote is private? This is part of what happened last time and I see no reason why it won't happen again. It's that, and people are too lazy to vote.

I was thinking this same exact train of thought over the weekend. I also wonder if it's possible that the opposite effect could be in play. Suburban housewives married to ardent Trump supporters who have basically voted for whoever their man has told them to for however long actually voting for Biden while pretending to support Trump and even claiming to have done so when asked after voting. I'm not a suburban housewife, but I have lied about who I voted for to family members just to keep the peace. And I'd repeat that lie whenever around them. May parents are too old to change their minds on things so I just keep the peace to avoid having some big blow up that ruins the relationship to the point of not speaking to them anymore. It's so weird because my sister is more liberal than I am and they don't expect her to fall in line with their politics. Then again, she had a "Newt Happens" t-shirt in high school while I was completely disinterested in politics altogether and just went with the direction the wind was blowing that day.

 

[Eeyore]

I wonder how this story of a brown "thug" vandalizing a place of business would be spun today?

Matthew
12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying(L) and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers(M) and the benches of those selling doves.

 

[insidejob]

I wonder how this story of a brown "thug" vandalizing a place of business would be spun today?

Matthew
12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying(L) and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers(M) and the benches of those selling doves.

That's brown Jesus. White Jesus was much nicer than Matthew described.

 

[The moose]

That's brown Jesus. White Jesus was much nicer than Matthew described.

Definitely the post of the day!

 

[CoolBrees]

I just don’t see all of this moving the dial to be honest. Trump supporters are going to MAGA. Those undecideds on the fence at this point is a such a small minority they don’t really even matter (much).

What I hope will happen is turn out. Fact is, if people simply show up and vote, Trump will get washed out.

at this point all he is doing is playing to his base and trying to drive down vote totals where he can win - just like last time but on steriods

But I really feel that this is a bad strategy. When you are running as the outsider the “what the hell do you have to lose?” Line can actually work. Or the they are basically the same; both bad and corrupt. This time, not so much. The candidates differences are like shooting a bullet and throwing it. They tried to tie corruption to Biden. That was a major failure. Tried to call him a socialist. People are so tired of that trope the word has lost all teeth.

To me the Dems need to let him talk and continue to have surrogates point out the neofascism; while Biden and Harris work to reach those who don’t normally vote. A simple but real uptick in voter turnout in the states he needs would give him a win in a walk.

Because if he (Trumplethinskin) wins, that will make Nostradamus correct (again). And we are in for truly dark times....for 25 years until the second coming.

 

[JimEverett]

I just don’t see all of this moving the dial to be honest. Trump supporters are going to MAGA. Those undecideds on the fence at this point is a such a small minority they don’t really even matter (much).

What I hope will happen is turn out. Fact is, if people simply show up and vote, Trump will get washed out.

at this point all he is doing is playing to his base and trying to drive down vote totals where he can win - just like last time but on steriods

But I really feel that this is a bad strategy. When you are running as the outsider the “what the hell do you have to lose?” Line can actually work. Or the they are basically the same; both bad and corrupt. This time, not so much. The candidates differences are like shooting a bullet and throwing it. They tried to tie corruption to Biden. That was a major failure. Tried to call him a socialist. People are so tired of that trope the word has lost all teeth.

To me the Dems need to let him talk and continue to have surrogates point out the neofascism; while Biden and Harris work to reach those who don’t normally vote. A simple but real uptick in voter turnout in the states he needs would give him a win in a walk.

Because if he (Trumplethinskin) wins, that will make Nostradamus correct (again). And we are in for truly dark times....for 25 years until the second coming.

That is the other side of these protests/riots/violent gatherings - whatever you want to call them. While I think they are helping Trump I can see the side that thinks the issues themselves will drive more pro-Democrats to the polls - in a way they did not in 2016.
I cannot remember if it was you or someone else on here who argued that Biden is the candidate Trump actually wanted because he could not turn out the votes - essentially he would be something similar to Clinton. That may be true, but these protests keep the issues in front of people and could very well be the catalyst that gets the huge turnout in Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc. that Democrats need to win those states.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah, I agree. I know of at least 2 friends who probably voted for Trump last time because he was Republican and "how bad could he be".

There's a flip side to this

How many of those Trump "Triers" (especially those that had voted for Obama) and thought "how bad could he be?" are horrified by the answer to that question?

During 2016 when trying to court the black vote Trump famously said, "What you have to lose?"

Well, we found out

In fact, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a commercial with that clip followed by clips of all the madness that has followed

 

[MT15]

That is the other side of these protests/riots/violent gatherings - whatever you want to call them. While I think they are helping Trump I can see the side that thinks the issues themselves will drive more pro-Democrats to the polls - in a way they did not in 2016.
I cannot remember if it was you or someone else on here who argued that Biden is the candidate Trump actually wanted because he could not turn out the votes - essentially he would be something similar to Clinton. That may be true, but these protests keep the issues in front of people and could very well be the catalyst that gets the huge turnout in Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc. that Democrats need to win those states.

I think, just based on his actions, that Trump himself would much rather have run against Bernie than Biden. He was willing to risk being impeached to try to keep Biden from being the nominee. He’s trying the same playbook he would have used against Bernie, but imo it won’t stick to Biden. Nobody outside of the Trump true believers will swallow the line that Biden is a socialist.

 

[MT15]

Well I was informed by one of my friends here “in the know” that the person who was shot last night was a felon who was arrested three years ago for carrying an illegal firearm to a Proud Boys rally for the person who killed two people on the Tri-met train after they stood up for two women of color. I am sure most of you remember that as one of the casualties was a military veteran.

I bring this up to again show the type of people that Trump is calling great Americans

Ive seen a picture online of the alleged victim, I won’t post it because we don’t know if that is him or not. Picture featured a couple of prominent swastikas, though.

 

[SaintForLife]

This isn’t a game where you can keep score, SFL



This is a nonsensical view of a real problem that can be traced back to 3.5 years of Trump choosing to demonize his political opponents. Trump has absolutely played fear monger, ever since even before he started his campaign last time, really. He has talked this civil unrest into existence, in a way. He has never reached out or acknowledged that he needs to work for both sides of the political spectrum. Rather he dehumanizes people who happen to oppose him politically. When people feel dehumanized, they lash out. This applies to both sides of the political spectrum.

Lots of people have pretended for years that the vile hate that comes from him doesn’t really matter. I think we are reaping the consequences of that hate right now. This is Trump’s America, this is what he foments. He pretends to be for Law and Order, but he really just wants the power to punish his enemies, while ignoring any laws that he chooses for himself and his supporters.

It’s not just me who thinks Trump is trying to divide America:



To prove Ayo’s point he tweeted the crazy quotes below. Does he really think anyone believes that Kenosha would cease to exist if not for him? The only death in Kenosha right now can be attributed to one of his supporters.

Portland, while having some fringe elements on both sides for years, is a very livable city. He isn’t solving anything, he’s just making everything worse, IMO. Is America better today than when he was elected, or worse? Not much case for anything being better.

I never claimed it was a game so I'm not sure why you threw out that strawman. It's very clear to everyone except the far left or to people who are in denial that most of the people that are commiting the violence, vandalism and looting are left wingers. I am aware that there are also some far right groups out there looking for a fight with antifa or whoever.

Your arguemnt about Trump trying to divide the country for the last 3.5 years is irrelevant to the discussion about the current riots and vandalism in response the the police brutality.

It's laughable to try to claim that the violence in response to the police brutality is due to Trump. I'm not surprised Trump is trying to use the situation to his advantage politically. I'm also not surprised about how the left is now trying to claim it's Trump's fault because they are seeing that it's hurting Biden and Democrats politically. The cat is out of the bag now. The Democrats looked the other way and now they won't be able to stop it. It might even help Trump get reelected.

 

[Nebaghead]

I never claimed it was a game so I'm not sure why you threw out that strawman. It's very clear to everyone except the far left or to people who are in denial that most of the people that are commiting the violence, vandalism and looting are left wingers. I am aware that there are also some far right groups out there looking for a fight with antifa or whoever.

Your arguemnt about Trump trying to divide the country for the last 3.5 years is irrelevant to the discussion about the current riots and vandalism in response the the police brutality.

It's laughable to try to claim that the violence in response to the police brutality is due to Trump. I'm not surprised Trump is trying to use the situation to his advantage politically. I'm also not surprised about how the left is now trying to claim it's Trump's fault because they are seeing that it's hurting Biden and Democrats politically. The cat is out of the bag now. The Democrats looked the other way and now they won't be able to stop it. It might even help Trump get reelected.

You don’t see how divisive rhetoric from the president has fanned the flames of violence? A large majority of the protestors are non violent, however these clowns who buy Trumps rhetoric, hook line and sinker are showing up to cause trouble. The president has done nothing to unite the country or address the issue, he has only made things worst. A little empathy and even some talk about justice reform would help. His DOJ Hs done nothing to investigate or curtail bad police practices.
He isn’t completely responsible for the violence but his policy’s and leadership or lack there of has gotten us to where things are.

 

[MT15]

SFL, your assertion about who is causing most of the violence leads me to think you are trying to keep score. That’s no straw man, it came from your comment, you brought it up. You confirmed it just now when you ascribe most of the blame to the left. You seem to be willing to give the folks on the right a pass. Which is a big mistake, IMO.

I truly believe that Trump’s hateful rhetoric has had a part to play on the increased racial tensions and the civil unrest. Are you saying it has played no part?

Trump’s divisiveness has emboldened the criminals on the far right, we’ve been enduring an uptick in hate crimes from the right ever since he was elected, IIRC. He also got rid of the federal efforts to hold police departments to account for bad actors. He encouraged police to “not be so nice” when they arrest someone. There’s been an increasing trend of crimes against minorities, since Trump got elected.

So when the anger about this state of affairs boils over, you’re going to say that the messaging from the WH has played no part? All of this is happening under Trump. It’s his responsibility, just like the US having fully 25% of the world’s Covid deaths are his responsibility. The buck stops with him.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Do you think most of the people commiting the violence, looting and vandalism are far right or far left?

Do you think most of the people committing the murders causing the "violence, looting and vandalism" are far right or far left?

 

[SaintForLife]

SFL, your assertion about who is causing most of the violence leads me to think you are trying to keep score. That’s no straw man, it came from your comment, you brought it up. You confirmed it just now when you ascribe most of the blame to the left. You seem to be willing to give the folks on the right a pass. Which is a big mistake, IMO.

I truly believe that Trump’s hateful rhetoric has had a part to play on the increased racial tensions and the civil unrest. Are you saying it has played no part?

Trump’s divisiveness has emboldened the criminals on the far right, we’ve been enduring an uptick in hate crimes from the right ever since he was elected, IIRC. He also got rid of the federal efforts to hold police departments to account for bad actors. He encouraged police to “not be so nice” when they arrest someone. There’s been an increasing trend of crimes against minorities, since Trump got elected.

So when the anger about this state of affairs boils over, you’re going to say that the messaging from the WH has played no part? All of this is happening under Trump. It’s his responsibility, just like the US having fully 25% of the world’s Covid deaths are his responsibility. The buck stops with him.

I'm sure Trumps rhetoric does contribute to the civil unrest and racial tensions. Like I said before, I'm not surprised that Trump is trying to use that to his advantage politically.

Do you really think that many Trump supporters are out there protesting against police brutality?

You are trying to deflect from the fact that the vast majority of peaceful and violent protestors are left wingers by talking about keeping score.

Its pure gaslighting to try to act like Trump is responsible for the left wingers commiting violence, looting and vandalism. I think it's perfectly reasonable to blame him for the right wing extremists out there commiting violence recently, but those pale in comparison to the left wingers burning down and destroying small businesses.