Euthanasia; Yeah or Nay? (2 Viewers)

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    Farb

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    This is becoming a talking point or will be soon. I personally have no issue with medical assisted suicide in a hospice care environment. There is a push, and this is in Canada, to include the mentally ill, disabled, and even the homeless. That I cannot get behind. What does everyone else think about it?

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...-of-abuse-is-becoming-ever-more-apparent.html

    How does the unthinkable become not only thinkable, but seemingly inevitable? How do we normalize things we recently considered not just abnormal, but horrifying?

    The question arises because a major Canadian medical organization is pushing the idea of allowing doctors to do something that’s long been considered unthinkable and abnormal: killing infants who are born with conditions that make survival impossible.

    The Quebec College of Physicians made the case for this before a parliamentary committee studying changes to Canada’s law on medical assistance in dying (MAID), a.k.a. assisted suicide.

    To be clear, the college’s proposal involves only newborns with severe malformations whose chance for life is “basically nil.” It wouldn’t be a license to kill babies. But let’s also be clear about this: authorizing doctors to actively euthanize infants — rather than allowing nature to take its course — does cross a line once thought inviolable.


    The college suggests blurring things in other ways, too. It supports extending MAID to “mature minors,” i.e. teenagers aged 14 to 17, and wants us to think about allowing euthanasia for old people who are just “tired of living.”

    Now, Canada’s laws on MAID have long been stretched far beyond the original (and praiseworthy) concept of sparing terminally ill people from unnecessary agony at the end of their lives, allowing a so-called “death with dignity.” When the law was passed in 2016 it didn’t specify that a person must be terminally ill to qualify for a medically assisted death, and last year it was amended to remove the requirement that death be “reasonably foreseeable.”

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/famil...ssion-wasn-t-fit-for-assisted-death-1.4609016

    A British Columbia man who struggled with depression and showed no signs of facing an imminent demise was given a medically-assisted death despite desperate pleas from his loved ones, family members say.

    Alan Nichols was admitted to Chilliwack General Hospital in June, at age 61, after he was found dehydrated and malnourished. One month later, he died by injection.

    Days before his death, family members begged Nichols, a former school janitor who lived alone and struggled with depression, not to go through with the procedure. They still don’t know why doctors approved the life-ending procedure and insist that Nichols did not fit the government criteria of facing an “imminent death.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/canad...law-include-mentally-ill-enable-mature-minors
     
    I think it would be more humane than not for the option to be available to go the route of assisted suicide in situations like terminal late stage cancer.

    I had a family member who was dying of cancer and in the last day or two she was asking for the family to throw her off the balcony to end it. Just unnecessary suffering for all there.
    There is a good discussion to be had in that case and one that I would probably agree with you on. I had a loved one that was at the end and the doctor gave them something to make them 'comfortable' and also helped speed it along. No problem with that.
    The issue I want to point out with this thread how the slippery slope that is often viewed as consipiracy theories and what not have already happened in other countries.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64004329
    As Canada prepares to expand its euthanasia law to include those with mental illness, some Canadians - including many of the country's doctors - question whether the country's assisted death programme has already moved too far, too fast.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maid-bill-senate-amendments-1.5924163
    The Trudeau government has agreed with the Senate that Canadians suffering solely from grievous and incurable mental illnesses should be entitled to medical assistance in dying — but not for another two years.

    The two-year interlude is six months longer than what was proposed by senators.


    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-maid-assisted-suicide-homeless
    One third of Canadians are apparently fine with prescribing assisting suicide for no other reason than the fact that the patient is poor or homeless.
     
    Single payer is not “state sponsored”.

    The rest is none of your business.

    You cannot be pro-life if:

    You support capital punishment. To use your term that is state sponsored murder.

    You do not care what happens to a baby after it is born. You certainly can be anti-abortion but not caring what happens after a baby is born is not pro-life. Gain some intellectual honesty.
    Who pays the bill?

    Who pays the bill?

    I can, and I am.
    One is an innocent life, one is a danger to society.

    Can you show me how I don't care what happens to the baby after it born or is that just a MK Ultra talkng point for you? I am very anti-abortion (call it medical murder) and also pro-life.
     
    Who pays the bill?

    Who pays the bill?

    I can, and I am.
    One is an innocent life, one is a danger to society.

    Can you show me how I don't care what happens to the baby after it born or is that just a MK Ultra talkng point for you? I am very anti-abortion (call it medical murder) and also pro-life.
    None of your business.

    Do you support Food Stamps, Medicaid, Head Start and any other programs designed to help poor people including children?

    You don’t pay the bill. That is a Cato/Heritage/anti-tax/libertarian brainwashing talking point.

    You support state sanctioned murder by supporting capital punishment. You are not pro-life. If you do not support assistance to children and families after birth including potential lifetime care for severely disabled children who are born with birth defects then you are not pro-life.

    Euthanasia is not a danger to society nor are trans people. The only danger to society is conservatism.
     
    Who pays the bill?

    Who pays the bill?

    I can, and I am.
    One is an innocent life, one is a danger to society.

    Can you show me how I don't care what happens to the baby after it born or is that just a MK Ultra talkng point for you? I am very anti-abortion (call it medical murder) and also pro-life.

    Farb is so widely inconsistent with his views it's hilarious.

    We KNOW that innocent people get wrongly convicted, and sentenced to death. I think it's around 4%.

    Capital punishment is the state taking some amount of innocent lives. It's one of the major talking points against capital punishment.

    P.S. This is really good counterpoint. I expect to be told to go look for his reply on this issue on the PDB board.
     
    Last edited:
    There is a good discussion to be had in that case and one that I would probably agree with you on. I had a loved one that was at the end and the doctor gave them something to make them 'comfortable' and also helped speed it along. No problem with that.
    The issue I want to point out with this thread how the slippery slope that is often viewed as consipiracy theories and what not have already happened in other countries.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64004329
    As Canada prepares to expand its euthanasia law to include those with mental illness, some Canadians - including many of the country's doctors - question whether the country's assisted death programme has already moved too far, too fast.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maid-bill-senate-amendments-1.5924163
    The Trudeau government has agreed with the Senate that Canadians suffering solely from grievous and incurable mental illnesses should be entitled to medical assistance in dying — but not for another two years.

    The two-year interlude is six months longer than what was proposed by senators.


    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-maid-assisted-suicide-homeless
    One third of Canadians are apparently fine with prescribing assisting suicide for no other reason than the fact that the patient is poor or homeless.

    In general I think people should be allowed to have autonomy over their lives and be allowed to make decisions like these for themselves.. though I will say that in cases of severe, debilitating depression and so on.. if you haven't, for example, thrown psychedelics at it yet you haven't fully exhausted everything that could help and so I would be uncomfortable in making it easier for someone like that to end their own life when there are actually still reasons to hold out hope that it can be better.
     
    In general I think people should be allowed to have autonomy over their lives and be allowed to make decisions like these for themselves.. though I will say that in cases of severe, debilitating depression and so on.. if you haven't, for example, thrown psychedelics at it yet you haven't fully exhausted everything that could help and so I would be uncomfortable in making it easier for someone like that to end their own life when there are actually still reasons to hold out hope that it can be better.
    I think almost everyone is reasonable about this stuff. Bodily autonomy is vital to having a free society. Too many people these days are willing to interfere with it. It’s wrong.
     
    None of your business.

    Do you support Food Stamps, Medicaid, Head Start and any other programs designed to help poor people including children?

    You don’t pay the bill. That is a Cato/Heritage/anti-tax/libertarian brainwashing talking point.

    You support state sanctioned murder by supporting capital punishment. You are not pro-life. If you do not support assistance to children and families after birth including potential lifetime care for severely disabled children who are born with birth defects then you are not pro-life.

    Euthanasia is not a danger to society nor are trans people. The only danger to society is conservatism.
    You have obviously not familiar with anything you mentioned above and my stance on them but you do manage to to cram a lot of MSNBC talking points in there so you must be proud.

    Do you think there are people that don't belong in society?

    What does Trans have to do with euthanasia?

    Do you believe in having an age of sexual consent? If you do, then your argument of 'none of your business' is hypocritical, but as with most alt-left beliefs, that is a given. Do you believe in an age of consent?
     
    Farb is so widely inconsistent with his views it's hilarious.

    We KNOW that innocent people get wrongly convicted, and sentenced to death. I think it's around 4%.

    Capital punishment is the state taking some amount of innocent lives. It's one of the major talking points against capital punishment.

    P.S. This is really good counterpoint. I expect to be told to go look for his reply on this issue on the PDB board.
    I am against the state taking any innocent life. That is my inconsistent views to you? euthanasia for the mentally ill compared to capital punishment? LOL. I would say do better but....nevermind, good job.

    Do you think there are people that don't belong in society?

    No, it is not a good counter point. It is an old and tired counter point, the fact that you believe this to be a 'good' one is kind of sad actually.
     
    Maybe it would be helpful if you could just honestly articulate what you are trying to say without the “gotcha” attempts?
     
    I think almost everyone is reasonable about this stuff. Bodily autonomy is vital to having a free society. Too many people these days are willing to interfere with it. It’s wrong.
    No you don't. You don't feel the same about vaccines. You were/are in favor of the state forcing someone to take a vaccine.
     
    I am against the state taking any innocent life. That is my inconsistent views to you? euthanasia for the mentally ill compared to capital punishment? LOL. I would say do better but....nevermind, good job.

    Do you think there are people that don't belong in society?

    No, it is not a good counter point. It is an old and tired counter point, the fact that you believe this to be a 'good' one is kind of sad actually.
    I am for capital punishment in theory but not in practice due to the fact that we know innocent people have been executed by the state.

    And I can't really think of a much worse crime than for the state to take the life of an innocent person.. at least if they're in prison for life there's still an opportunity to correct it.
     
    No you don't. You don't feel the same about vaccines. You were/are in favor of the state forcing someone to take a vaccine.
    Maybe you could show me where I said that? There are and have always been religious exemptions. As I recall, I was fine with the military requiring vaccines, because they always have. And I was fine with places deciding to exclude people who refused vaccines. Even the hospital where I worked had religious exceptions. You had to get tested every two weeks, or something like that.

    There are always a few people who cannot take vaccines for medical reasons.

    But I don’t want to hijack the thread.
     
    Maybe it would be helpful if you could just honestly articulate what you are trying to say without the “gotcha” attempts?
    I believe euthanasia is evil if it the 'answer' to solving a mental illness, poverty, homelessness or any other symptom that might be inconvenient. Terminal illness to ease the last moments of a dying person is another issue. This was how it started but as usual, the slippery slope has proven to be real. If I must pick one, I choose no euthanasia since I won't support the mentally ill, poor or depressed people electing to killing themselves with the help of the medical/pharmaceutical/state for problems and conditions that are solvable or treatable.
     
    I believe euthanasia is evil if it the 'answer' to solving a mental illness, poverty, homelessness or any other symptom that might be inconvenient. Terminal illness to ease the last moments of a dying person is another issue. This was how it started but as usual, the slippery slope has proven to be real. If I must pick one, I choose no euthanasia since I won't support the mentally ill, poor or depressed people electing to killing themselves with the help of the medical/pharmaceutical/state for problems and conditions that are solvable or treatable.
    Okay, thank you. I agree that there needs to be policies in place to prevent abuse. I think nations that allow assisted suicide have such policies. I would have to look it up, but I think it involves counseling, a second or third physician’s approval and such.

    I don’t think we have seen abuses like you seem to think we have. Do you have any data about that?
     
    I believe euthanasia is evil if it the 'answer' to solving a mental illness, poverty, homelessness or any other symptom that might be inconvenient. Terminal illness to ease the last moments of a dying person is another issue. This was how it started but as usual, the slippery slope has proven to be real. If I must pick one, I choose no euthanasia since I won't support the mentally ill, poor or depressed people electing to killing themselves with the help of the medical/pharmaceutical/state for problems and conditions that are solvable or treatable.
    I get what you're saying but in my opinion you're putting too much emphasis on the slippery slope. Could it "slip" to that here? Yeah, I guess it could.. but that would be a different battle for a different time than euthanasia for a person in a terminal, absolutely no hope situation.

    And I'd rather help those people find peace than focus on the hypothetical.
     
    I am against the state taking any innocent life. That is my inconsistent views to you? euthanasia for the mentally ill compared to capital punishment? LOL. I would say do better but....nevermind, good job.

    Do you think there are people that don't belong in society?

    No, it is not a good counter point. It is an old and tired counter point, the fact that you believe this to be a 'good' one is kind of sad actually.

    This is not hard Farb, you can follow along. Stop trying to reframe.

    Fact 1. You are pro-capital punishment.
    Fact 2. The justice system if flawed and kills innocent people.
    Conclusion: You are for the state taking innocent lives.

    You can't be pro-capital punishment, and also talk about sanctity of "innocent" lives.

    It's already been brought up in this thread that if you are for the state taking lives, why can't people have the autonomy do it themselves.

    You can always sit down, and rethink your position. Feel free to change your view on capital punishment since it's not consistent with your abortion stance, or euthanasia.

    P.S. You are drowning in this thread, and grasping at nonsense.
     

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