Euthanasia; Yeah or Nay? (1 Viewer)

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    Farb

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    This is becoming a talking point or will be soon. I personally have no issue with medical assisted suicide in a hospice care environment. There is a push, and this is in Canada, to include the mentally ill, disabled, and even the homeless. That I cannot get behind. What does everyone else think about it?

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...-of-abuse-is-becoming-ever-more-apparent.html

    How does the unthinkable become not only thinkable, but seemingly inevitable? How do we normalize things we recently considered not just abnormal, but horrifying?

    The question arises because a major Canadian medical organization is pushing the idea of allowing doctors to do something that’s long been considered unthinkable and abnormal: killing infants who are born with conditions that make survival impossible.

    The Quebec College of Physicians made the case for this before a parliamentary committee studying changes to Canada’s law on medical assistance in dying (MAID), a.k.a. assisted suicide.

    To be clear, the college’s proposal involves only newborns with severe malformations whose chance for life is “basically nil.” It wouldn’t be a license to kill babies. But let’s also be clear about this: authorizing doctors to actively euthanize infants — rather than allowing nature to take its course — does cross a line once thought inviolable.


    The college suggests blurring things in other ways, too. It supports extending MAID to “mature minors,” i.e. teenagers aged 14 to 17, and wants us to think about allowing euthanasia for old people who are just “tired of living.”

    Now, Canada’s laws on MAID have long been stretched far beyond the original (and praiseworthy) concept of sparing terminally ill people from unnecessary agony at the end of their lives, allowing a so-called “death with dignity.” When the law was passed in 2016 it didn’t specify that a person must be terminally ill to qualify for a medically assisted death, and last year it was amended to remove the requirement that death be “reasonably foreseeable.”

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/famil...ssion-wasn-t-fit-for-assisted-death-1.4609016

    A British Columbia man who struggled with depression and showed no signs of facing an imminent demise was given a medically-assisted death despite desperate pleas from his loved ones, family members say.

    Alan Nichols was admitted to Chilliwack General Hospital in June, at age 61, after he was found dehydrated and malnourished. One month later, he died by injection.

    Days before his death, family members begged Nichols, a former school janitor who lived alone and struggled with depression, not to go through with the procedure. They still don’t know why doctors approved the life-ending procedure and insist that Nichols did not fit the government criteria of facing an “imminent death.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/canad...law-include-mentally-ill-enable-mature-minors
     
    I get what you're saying but in my opinion you're putting too much emphasis on the slippery slope. Could it "slip" to that here? Yeah, I guess it could.. but that would be a different battle for a different time than euthanasia for a person in a terminal, absolutely no hope situation.

    And I'd rather help those people find peace than focus on the hypothetical.
    I think we can look at the beginning of this thread to now and see the opinion have already changed for some people. I don't think the slippery slope argument is an invalid one. We can check back on this thread in about 6 months.
     
    Okay, thank you. I agree that there needs to be policies in place to prevent abuse. I think nations that allow assisted suicide have such policies. I would have to look it up, but I think it involves counseling, a second or third physician’s approval and such.

    I don’t think we have seen abuses like you seem to think we have. Do you have any data about that?
    I posted articles showing proposed legislation in Canada. What other proof do you require?
     
    I think we can look at the beginning of this thread to now and see the opinion have already changed for some people. I don't think the slippery slope argument is an invalid one. We can check back on this thread in about 6 months.
    It's another one where in theory I'm OK with it but in practice I'm not.

    In theory I think you should be able to end your life whenever you want to, but in practice I do not believe that assisted suicide should be available to any and all individuals for any and all reasons.
     
    This is not hard Farb, you can follow along. Stop trying to reframe.

    Fact 1. You are pro-capital punishment.
    Fact 2. The justice system if flawed and kills innocent people.
    Conclusion: You are for the state taking innocent lives.

    You can't be pro-capital punishment, and also talk about sanctity of "innocent" lives.

    It's already been brought up in this thread that if you are for the state taking lives, why can't people have the autonomy do it themselves.

    You can always sit down, and rethink your position and this point. Feel free to change your view on capital punishment since it's not consistent with your abortion stance.

    P.S. You are drowning in this thread, and grasping at nonsense.
    Sure. I am drowning, you are owning me and all that.

    One person kills another person and will kill again. The other is baby.
    Abortion and capital punishment are not the same thing. If they are then if you support abortion, you should have zero problem with capital punishment, right? If not, please explain.
     
    Sure. I am drowning, you are owning me and all that.

    One person kills another person and will kill again. The other is baby.
    Abortion and capital punishment are not the same thing. If they are then if you support abortion, you should have zero problem with capital punishment, right? If not, please explain.
    What if they didn't kill anybody and are actually innocent?
     
    It's another one where in theory I'm OK with it but in practice I'm not.

    In theory I think you should be able to end your life whenever you want to, but in practice I do not believe that assisted suicide should be available to any and all individuals for any and all reasons.
    I respect that. I think you are more of a libertarian and that is not meant as an insult at all, so please don't take it as such.
     
    I posted articles showing proposed legislation in Canada. What other proof do you require?
    That was over a year ago. And your articles are slanted, easy to see that. Do you have an update? Surely in over a year, you have proof of this slippery slope?
     
    I respect that. I think you are more of a libertarian and that is not meant as an insult at all, so please don't take it as such.
    Yeah I'm not sure what label would fit most for me, I know that years ago Bill Maher considered himself a libertarian and I thought "no, I don't think so."

    You know, I actually don't like labels lol but I don't take offense at all. I just try to view everything as its own issue along with attempting to strip away the politics from it so that I can make my own judgments.
     
    You have obviously not familiar with anything you mentioned above and my stance on them but you do manage to to cram a lot of MSNBC talking points in there so you must be proud.

    Do you think there are people that don't belong in society?

    What does Trans have to do with euthanasia?

    Do you believe in having an age of sexual consent? If you do, then your argument of 'none of your business' is hypocritical, but as with most alt-left beliefs, that is a given. Do you believe in an age of consent?
    No, it is not hypocritical. It is none of YOUR business.

    Instead of a smart aleck comment which is deflection, state your position on the programs I mentioned. Prove that you are pro-life.

    As regards people who don’t belong in society, who gets to decide? You? No, thanks. Others? Possibly. But what does belonging in society have to do with state sanctioned murder? You simply want the state to murder those YOU deem not worthy of living.

    Regarding abortion, I am not going to tell a women whose baby has no chance of living that she cannot make that decision. It is not YOUR business.

    Trans has to do with euthanasia in that neither is any of YOUR business. You are entitled to any opinion you personally want to have. Legislation regarding them is something else.

    As regards age of consent? More deflection. Very often trans children’s parents ARE involved despite RW religionist agitprop. Age of consent for sexual relations is a well established concept despite RW whack jobs like the fool from MO (can’t recall his name) who said that there are children who married at age twelve and who are thriving.

    Stop deflecting and stop bringing Cato/Heritage/religionist talking points around.
     
    Sure. I am drowning, you are owning me and all that.

    One person kills another person and will kill again. The other is baby.
    Abortion and capital punishment are not the same thing. If they are then if you support abortion, you should have zero problem with capital punishment, right? If not, please explain.

    Farb the (re)framer.

    I'm going to copy/paste since you won't address the point, and try to keep reframing it so you don't have to answer.

    Fact 1. You are pro-capital punishment.
    Fact 2. The justice system if flawed and kills innocent people.
    Conclusion: You are for the state taking innocent lives.

    Maybe you really are that slow: Innocent people get found murder, and sentenced to death. They are then executed. How are they different from a baby?

    You made the point of not wanting to tax payer dollars being used to take innocent lives. That's been happening for a long time.

    This is not some slapstick argument. It's one of the major arguments against capital punishment.

    How close am I to being redirected to a decade old post on your musing for capital punishment?
     
    Who pays the bill?

    Who pays the bill?

    I can, and I am.
    One is an innocent life, one is a danger to society.

    Can you show me how I don't care what happens to the baby after it born or is that just a MK Ultra talkng point for you? I am very anti-abortion (call it medical murder) and also pro-life.
    who pays the bill if you have a heart attack?
    who pays the bill if you have cancer?

    do you know what insurance is? I'm not thinking you do.
     
    you simply cannot be pro life and support capital punishment.
    the term he is looking for is anti abortion.
    Pro life doesn't have an astrix. pro life except . lol .
    most "pro life" people would have no problem people getting shot down over stealing a tv from Walmart or stealing a radio out of a car if you are pro life, you would condem any one who did that instead of saying stuff like, well they deserved it, they shouldn't have .
    also, you can't say you are pro life and being for capital punishment when it's FACT that innocent people have been put to death because of human error with investigations or because of circumstantial evidence
     
    Sure. I am drowning, you are owning me and all that.

    One person kills another person and will kill again. The other is baby.
    Abortion and capital punishment are not the same thing. If they are then if you support abortion, you should have zero problem with capital punishment, right? If not, please explain.

    What if they didn't kill anybody and are actually innocent?

    I'm sure this was an oversight, Farb, but it's a great question. I would like to hear your answer, given your firmly held positions.
     
    Forgot to ask.

    Does Farb support the military involved in hot war which also includes providing weapons to belligerents?

    Or does Pro Life only count in certain circumstances?
     
    I had a loved one that was at the end and the doctor gave them something to make them 'comfortable' and also helped speed it along. No problem with that.
    Once again, conservatives show that they have no concept of empathy for other peoples’ situation, but somehow manage to rationalize the situation when it affects them directly.

    The doctor literally euthanized your loved one. Making someone comfortable and speeding along the process is literally euthanasia.
     
    My last surviving grandmother, who lived to be almost 95, was bedridden for 5 years. She could not get up, could not clean herself, or go to the bathroom on here own, could barely feed herself. Her memory was mostly gone, her ability to think was mostly gone. I remember thinking how I would never want to be in a situation like that, that I would definitely opt-out if I were in her position.

    The thing I wonder about is, being in a situation like that, I would not be able to think about that option, or make a sound decision to opt-out. So who would make the decision? Because you would think the person suffering would need consent, but at that stage, one could not process things. Nobody would make that decision for the person.

    How is one suppose to acknowledge/agree to something like that with 'sound mind' while not having a sound mind? It would have to be asked/requested by the individual, but by the time it got to a certain stage, that would not really be a thought and I think it would be difficult to convince the ones to administer it... that the person would actually be aware of what they are asking them to do. I think hospice is a middle ground to all this, because they are there to make the person as comfortable as possible.
     

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