Euthanasia; Yeah or Nay? (1 Viewer)

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    Farb

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    This is becoming a talking point or will be soon. I personally have no issue with medical assisted suicide in a hospice care environment. There is a push, and this is in Canada, to include the mentally ill, disabled, and even the homeless. That I cannot get behind. What does everyone else think about it?

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...-of-abuse-is-becoming-ever-more-apparent.html

    How does the unthinkable become not only thinkable, but seemingly inevitable? How do we normalize things we recently considered not just abnormal, but horrifying?

    The question arises because a major Canadian medical organization is pushing the idea of allowing doctors to do something that’s long been considered unthinkable and abnormal: killing infants who are born with conditions that make survival impossible.

    The Quebec College of Physicians made the case for this before a parliamentary committee studying changes to Canada’s law on medical assistance in dying (MAID), a.k.a. assisted suicide.

    To be clear, the college’s proposal involves only newborns with severe malformations whose chance for life is “basically nil.” It wouldn’t be a license to kill babies. But let’s also be clear about this: authorizing doctors to actively euthanize infants — rather than allowing nature to take its course — does cross a line once thought inviolable.


    The college suggests blurring things in other ways, too. It supports extending MAID to “mature minors,” i.e. teenagers aged 14 to 17, and wants us to think about allowing euthanasia for old people who are just “tired of living.”

    Now, Canada’s laws on MAID have long been stretched far beyond the original (and praiseworthy) concept of sparing terminally ill people from unnecessary agony at the end of their lives, allowing a so-called “death with dignity.” When the law was passed in 2016 it didn’t specify that a person must be terminally ill to qualify for a medically assisted death, and last year it was amended to remove the requirement that death be “reasonably foreseeable.”

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/famil...ssion-wasn-t-fit-for-assisted-death-1.4609016

    A British Columbia man who struggled with depression and showed no signs of facing an imminent demise was given a medically-assisted death despite desperate pleas from his loved ones, family members say.

    Alan Nichols was admitted to Chilliwack General Hospital in June, at age 61, after he was found dehydrated and malnourished. One month later, he died by injection.

    Days before his death, family members begged Nichols, a former school janitor who lived alone and struggled with depression, not to go through with the procedure. They still don’t know why doctors approved the life-ending procedure and insist that Nichols did not fit the government criteria of facing an “imminent death.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/canad...law-include-mentally-ill-enable-mature-minors
     
    Seems counter-intuitive for someone clinically diagnosed with depression to have the competence to determine they want to commit suicide. The minimum age should probably remain at 18 although, let's be honest, that's a somewhat arbitrary number.

    For everyone else who is mentally sound/competent, yes, it should be an option. Whether they are disabled or homeless or whatever else should not come in to play as a reason not to allow them to make a knowing choice. Quite simply, it's no one else's life but their own. The concept of the state's general interest in life in the abstract is baloney.
     
    As long as they don't let capitalism get ahold of it and start marketing it to people to convince them that they should kill themselves, i don't see a problem with having this type of service available.
     
    Man I'm for all this on paper, but it wouldn't take much for it to go off the rails, and become dystopian society running man levels of bad real quick.
     
    Seems counter-intuitive for someone clinically diagnosed with depression to have the competence to determine they want to commit suicide. The minimum age should probably remain at 18 although, let's be honest, that's a somewhat arbitrary number.

    For everyone else who is mentally sound/competent, yes, it should be an option. Whether they are disabled or homeless or whatever else should not come in to play as a reason not to allow them to make a knowing choice. Quite simply, it's no one else's life but their own. The concept of the state's general interest in life in the abstract is baloney.
    I would argue that a person is not mentally sound/competent if they have a desire to end their own life at all. Wouldn't the thought being moved to action be the same as depression?
     
    I would argue that a person is not mentally sound/competent if they have a desire to end their own life at all. Wouldn't the thought being moved to action be the same as depression?

    I don't know that I agree with that. I think a person who's life has been really shirtty, difficult, lonely and unloved could make a rational decision that they'd rather not just live life any more and would seek an end of life remedy. That person could be depressed but at the same time want to act rationally to end their life.

    Having said that, I don't necessarily think the government should aid in that decision or allow for it legally by doctor's absent a real, terminal illness. Mostly for the same dystopian reasons that @J-DONK mentioned. I'd much rather the government invest in mental health services and in social services to make peoples lives better and encourage its citizens to seek a more fulfilling life situation by connecting with others.

    In the end, if people in that situation want to really end their life, they will find a way to commit suicide absent doctors or government aid.
     
    As long as they don't let capitalism get ahold of it and start marketing it to people to convince them that they should kill themselves, i don't see a problem with having this type of service available.
    well, if covid taught us anything, big pharma is going to big pharma and bureaucrats and politicians will suckle at the teet of capitalism.
     
    well, if covid taught us anything, big pharma is going to big pharma and bureaucrats and politicians will suckle at the teet of capitalism.

    And the bros in their trailers will defend the economic system.
     
    I don't know that I agree with that. I think a person who's life has been really shirtty, difficult, lonely and unloved could make a rational decision that they'd rather not just live life any more and would seek an end of life remedy. That person could be depressed but at the same time want to act rationally to end their life.

    Having said that, I don't necessarily think the government should aid in that decision or allow for it legally by doctor's absent a real, terminal illness. Mostly for the same dystopian reasons that @J-DONK mentioned. I'd much rather the government invest in mental health services and in social services to make peoples lives better and encourage its citizens to seek a more fulfilling life situation by connecting with others.

    In the end, if people in that situation want to really end their life, they will find a way to commit suicide absent doctors or government aid.
    In my opinion, you just described a depressed person.

    But you are correct, those that want to commit suicide will do so regardless of what the state and medical community wants to happen. I think the state and medical should exhaust all efforts in making that individual healthy and happy and want to live. Anything other than that is an over reach IMO.
     
    I am a believer in allowing terminally ill individuals make those decisions for themselves.

    However, I have a hard time with the idea assisting someone who is not terminal. That person should be given as much help as possible.

    And it is true that if a person is suicidal there is a good chance they will try regardless of intervention. However, I don’t think the state should be helping them to end their lives, quite the contrary.
     
    I am a believer in allowing terminally ill individuals make those decisions for themselves.

    However, I have a hard time with the idea assisting someone who is not terminal. That person should be given as much help as possible.

    And it is true that if a person is suicidal there is a good chance they will try regardless of intervention. However, I don’t think the state should be helping them to end their lives, quite the contrary.
    Everyone take note, @CoolBrees and I agree 100% on this!

    Well said. I couldn't agree more. I will make a conservative out of you yet :) ;)

    edited to add: I know this is not a conservative vs liberal issue, just some good natured fun.
     
    Late to this, but yeah, I don’t want the government doing anything to assist suicides. I do not have a problem with a terminally ill person seeking out a doctor willing to give them the pills they would need to avoid a long, lingering and painful illness though.

    I could see pressure being brought to bear on people who are ill to go this route, though, and I would hate to see that.
     
    Seems counter-intuitive for someone clinically diagnosed with depression to have the competence to determine they want to commit suicide. The minimum age should probably remain at 18 although, let's be honest, that's a somewhat arbitrary number.

    For everyone else who is mentally sound/competent, yes, it should be an option. Whether they are disabled or homeless or whatever else should not come in to play as a reason not to allow them to make a knowing choice. Quite simply, it's no one else's life but their own. The concept of the state's general interest in life in the abstract is baloney.

    I recall someone doing this in Europe a few years back.


    Aurelia's doctors would not endorse her requests for euthanasia. So she applied to the Levenseindekliniek - the End of Life Clinic - in The Hague. This is a place of last resort for those whose applications have been rejected by their own psychiatrist or GP. The clinic oversaw 65 of the 83 deaths approved on psychiatric grounds in the Netherlands last year, though only about 10% of psychiatric applications are approved, and the process can take years.
     
    I would argue that a person is not mentally sound/competent if they have a desire to end their own life at all. Wouldn't the thought being moved to action be the same as depression?
    I'm not a psychiatrist but I'm sure you can have people that want to commit suicide that don't necessarily suffer from depression. To quote George Carlin: "Some people just want to get the [eff] out of here."

    As far as the state's involvement... just watch Soylent Green. It'll be commonplace soon enough!
     
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    Everyone take note, @CoolBrees and I agree 100% on this!

    Well said. I couldn't agree more. I will make a conservative out of you yet :) ;)

    edited to add: I know this is not a conservative vs liberal issue, just some good natured fun.
    The trick is that the GOP and Conservatism parted ways decades ago.
    People you may think of as Liberals are often just OG Conservatives who hate what the Republican party has become.
     
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/conn...nt-to-get-medically-assisted-suicide-in-state

    Granted, this was terminal but she was a non-resident. Over/under on when this becomes a 'human right' argument and takes on the Canadian model. I predict after the election.
    I think the state/community/society should provide aid and comfort to those facing terminal illness who have decided to end life on their terms instead of a terminal disease's terms.

    I think the state/community/society should remain neutral if someone chooses to end their life for any other reasons. That means the state/community/society should refrain from providing comfort or aid, but they should also refrain from criminalizing or stigmatizing it.

    Choosing to end one's life is the ultimate act of self-determination and am fully supportive of every having the inalienable right of self-determination.

    We all engage in some form of activity that we know will decrease our life span, so we are all quite literally slowly, incrementally committing suicide. A death by a thousand cuts is still death.
     
    The trick is that the GOP and Conservatism parted ways decades ago.
    People you may think of as Liberals are often just OG Conservatives who hate what the Republican party has become.
    I agree. Exact same with the Democrats and liberals. I considered myself a democrat way back in the early 20teens.
     

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