Does Trump ever do any jail time? (2 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

    Optimus Prime

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    Everything I've seen and heard says that the split second Donald Trump is no longer president there will be flood of charges waiting for him

    And if he resigns and Pence pardons him there are a ton of state charges as an understudy waiting in the wings if the fed charges can't perform

    What do you think the likelihood of there being a jail sentence?

    In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, in every political thriller I've ever read about a criminal and corrupt president there is ALWAYS some version of;

    "We can't do that to the country",

    "A trial would tear the country apart",

    "For the nation to heal we need to move on" etc.

    Would life imitate art?

    Even with the charges, even with the proof the charges are true will the powers that be decide, "we can't do that to the country"?
     
    Last edited:
    Article on merrick garland
    =====================

    One of the most difficult issues facing any democratic leader is whether to prosecute a predecessor for alleged wrongdoing. Imprisoning a rival can look like vindictiveness and spark a violent backlash (as in South Africa). But not prosecuting a corrupt leader can be an invitation to even greater abuses.

    “Our research on prosecuting world leaders,” write three University of Washington researchers, “finds that both sweeping immunity and overzealous prosecutions can undermine democracy.”

    That is the thorny dilemma confronting Attorney General Merrick Garland now that the House has voted to hold former Trump White House aide Stephen K. Bannon in criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to cooperate with an investigation of the events of Jan. 6.

    Whether or not the Justice Department prosecutes Bannon will signal whether Garland will remain content to target the rank-and-file terrorists who invaded the Capitol — to date some 650 suspects have been arrested — or whether he will go after the capos who incited the insurrection……

    There is a long list of alleged offenses for which Trump should be investigated. Trump’s former attorney, Michael Cohen, was sentenced to three years in prisonin part for violating campaign finance laws by paying off two of Trump’s rumored girlfriends during the 2016 campaign. Yet Trump (“Individual 1”) has never been charged. Schiff asks: “So what’s the argument that the guy that did the coordinating and did the directing gets a pass?”

    Then there were all the examples of alleged obstruction of justice uncovered by then-special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. More than 1,000 former prosecutors concluded that “the conduct of President Trump described in special counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting president, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.” Trump is no longer president. So why isn’t he being indicted?

    The Ukrainegate scandal offered more examples of potential criminality by Trump, including violations of the bribery and campaign finance statutes.
    Trump faces even more potential exposure for his role in the Jan. 6 insurrection.

    New York University law professor Ryan Goodman, co-editor of the Just Security blog, told me that Trump may have, at a minimum, violated federal laws against impeding or disrupting “the orderly conduct of government business” or an “official proceeding.” It might even be possible to charge the ex-president with more serious offenses such as a seditious conspiracy “to overthrow … the Government of the United States” and “insurrection against the authority of the United States.”……


     
    Optimus Prime said:
    Article on merrick garland
    =====================

    One of the most difficult issues facing any democratic leader is whether to prosecute a predecessor for alleged wrongdoing. Imprisoning a rival can look like vindictiveness and spark a violent backlash (as in South Africa). But not prosecuting a corrupt leader can be an invitation to even greater abuses.

    “Our research on prosecuting world leaders,” write three University of Washington researchers, “finds that both sweeping immunity and overzealous prosecutions can undermine democracy.”

    That is the thorny dilemma confronting Attorney General Merrick Garland now that the House has voted to hold former Trump White House aide Stephen K. Bannon in criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to cooperate with an investigation of the events of Jan. 6.

    Whether or not the Justice Department prosecutes Bannon will signal whether Garland will remain content to target the rank-and-file terrorists who invaded the Capitol — to date some 650 suspects have been arrested — or whether he will go after the capos who incited the insurrection……

    There is a long list of alleged offenses for which Trump should be investigated. Trump’s former attorney, Michael Cohen, was sentenced to three years in prisonin part for violating campaign finance laws by paying off two of Trump’s rumored girlfriends during the 2016 campaign. Yet Trump (“Individual 1”) has never been charged. Schiff asks: “So what’s the argument that the guy that did the coordinating and did the directing gets a pass?”

    Then there were all the examples of alleged obstruction of justice uncovered by then-special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. More than 1,000 former prosecutors concluded that “the conduct of President Trump described in special counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting president, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.” Trump is no longer president. So why isn’t he being indicted?

    The Ukrainegate scandal offered more examples of potential criminality by Trump, including violations of the bribery and campaign finance statutes.
    Trump faces even more potential exposure for his role in the Jan. 6 insurrection.

    New York University law professor Ryan Goodman, co-editor of the Just Security blog, told me that Trump may have, at a minimum, violated federal laws against impeding or disrupting “the orderly conduct of government business” or an “official proceeding.” It might even be possible to charge the ex-president with more serious offenses such as a seditious conspiracy “to overthrow … the Government of the United States” and “insurrection against the authority of the United States.”……


    Click to expand...

    During impeachment, some Republicans said that if Trump committed crimes, he should be prosecuted after he leaves office, but that the Impeachment was just a political show.

    Now many of those same Republicans say that prosecuting Trump the private citizen, is just a political show.

    We really should stop giving a shirt what those people say.
     
    It’s not what the the politicians say that matters, at least to me. It’s what the normal people believe.

    Sometimes I feel like we are still hanging in the balance between resuming a somewhat normal life and hurtling over a very bad precipice. The majority of people in this country, and what they believe, will most likely determine which way we go.

    I want Trump to be prosecuted. But it’s not something that is cut and dried.
     
    MT15 said:
    It’s not what the the politicians say that matters, at least to me. It’s what the normal people believe.

    Sometimes I feel like we are still hanging in the balance between resuming a somewhat normal life and hurtling over a very bad precipice. The majority of people in this country, and what they believe, will most likely determine which way we go.

    I want Trump to be prosecuted. But it’s not something that is cut and dried.
    Click to expand...
    I think people like Bannon, Roger Stone, and all the other players are more important to prosecute than Trump.

    Trump running for president again, would be terrible for the country though, so if the only way to stop that is to prosecute him, then they should.
     
    I agree with that. Maybe the best course is to put those guys behind bars first, and maybe some other folks who helped Trump out, and by then Trump’s culpability will be so obvious that it will actually happen.
     
    Trump's basic defense strategy is difficult for a prosecutor to overwhelm.

    It's difficult to out stink a skunk.
     
    We’ll see if any of them ever give a deposition
    ====================
    NEW YORK (AP) — The New York attorney general’s office confirmed Monday that it has subpoenaed former President Donald Trump and his two eldest children, Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr., demanding their testimony in an investigation into the family’s business practices.

    Attorney General Letitia James’ office said in a court filing that it recently issued subpoenas seeking the Trumps’testimony and documents as part of a yearslong civil probe involving matters including “the valuation of properties owned or controlled” by Trump and his company.

    Monday’s filing, made public as the Trumps gear up to fight the subpoenas, was the first time that investigators publicly disclosed that they are also seeking information from Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr., both trusted allies of their father who’ve been executives in his family’s Trump Organization……..

    apnews.com

    Trump, Ivanka, Don Jr. subpoenaed in New York AG's probe

    New York’s attorney general recently issued subpoenas to former President Donald Trump and his two eldest children in connection with an ongoing civil investigation into the family’s business practices.
    apnews.com apnews.com
     
    I thought I read that they are not going to honor the subpoenas? Maybe I just dreamed that.
     
    The moose said:
    My take is fight them forever and not even pay your defense. That is the family way as far as I can tell.
    Click to expand...

    That plan may stop working if Alan Dershowitz is too busy looking for a defense attorney to rape the law on your behalf, and Michael Cohen is too busy talking to the FBI to pay off and/or threaten people for you.
     
    From George Conway
    =================
    …….The Justice Department has plenty of statutory tools available to make sure Trump doesn’t get away with what he did.

    Most notably, it could invoke one of the same provisions it has applied to individual rioters: Title 18, section 1512(c)(2) of the U.S. Code punishes “whoever corruptly … obstructs … or impedes any official proceeding.”

    The statute makes clear that an “official proceeding” includes one “before the Congress.” At least one judge handling Jan. 6 cases has already held that it includes Congress’s joint session for counting electoral votes.


    That Trump himself wasn’t present at the Capitol doesn’t shield him from liability for obstructing the electoral vote count or for any other crimes committed that day.

    The criminal code provides that whoever “aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures” the commission of an offense, or “willfully causes … another” to commit an offense, “is punishable as a principal," as though they had directly committed the deed himself.

    A number of criminal law experts have noted that you can aid and abet a crime simply by doing nothing — if you have a duty to intervene but don’t.

    A bystander who watches a store break-in and does nothing hasn’t committed a crime. The store security guard who sees the break-in and does nothing, knowing that his dereliction is allowing the crime to proceed, has.


    As president, Trump had the duty to intervene. Instead, as the Jan. 6 select congressional committee is learning, he spent hours watching the mayhem on TV.

    And that dereliction of duty, along with his open and manifest desire to stop the electoral-vote count, should suffice to make him guilty of a crime.

    The evidence is already bad for him, and it can only get worse……

     
    I do not think Trump will be convicted of any crime, and I think doubly that he will never serve a moment in jail. Trump has ALL the privileges in his corner. This is America he is a Wealthy White Man and an elected Politician and a TV celebrity. If ever there was a combination of all the possible things to not pay for your crimes, he is a perfect storm.
     
    Trump absolutely deserves to be in jail. I will be pleasantly surprised if it happens.
     
    If they have evidence of this why wouldn’t you pursue a civil suit?
    ================

    NEW YORK (AP) — The New York attorney general’s office late Tuesday told a court its investigators had uncovered evidence that former President Donald Trump’s company used “fraudulent or misleading” asset valuations to get loans and tax benefits.

    The court filing said state authorities haven’t yet decided whether to bring a civil lawsuit in connection with the allegations, but that investigators need to question Trump and his two eldest children as part of the probe.

    Trump and his lawyers say the investigation is politically motivated.

    In the court documents, Attorney General Letitia James’ office gave its most detailed accounting yet of a long-running investigation of allegations that Trump’s company exaggerated the value of assets to get favorable loan terms, or misstated what land was worth to slash its tax burden.

    The Trump Organization, it said, had overstated the value of land donations made in New York and California on paperwork submitted to the IRS to justify several million dollars in tax deductions.


    The company misreported the size of Trump’s Manhattan penthouse, saying it was nearly three times its actual size — a difference in value of about $200 million, James’ office said, citing deposition testimony from Trump’s longtime financial chief Allen Weisselberg, who was charged last year with tax fraud in a parallel criminal investigation……..

    apnews.com

    New York AG says Trump's company misled banks, tax officials

    The New York attorney general’s office says its civil investigation has uncovered evidence that former President Donald Trump's company used “fraudulent or misleading” asset valuations to get loans and tax benefits.
    apnews.com apnews.com
     
    If you’re a politician in legal trouble:

    If the people investigating you are of the opposite party it’s a baseless political witch hunt

    If they are from the same party they are traitorous backstabbers obviously in the bag for the other party
     

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