Does Trump ever do any jail time? (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

    Optimus Prime

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    Everything I've seen and heard says that the split second Donald Trump is no longer president there will be flood of charges waiting for him

    And if he resigns and Pence pardons him there are a ton of state charges as an understudy waiting in the wings if the fed charges can't perform

    What do you think the likelihood of there being a jail sentence?

    In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, in every political thriller I've ever read about a criminal and corrupt president there is ALWAYS some version of;

    "We can't do that to the country",

    "A trial would tear the country apart",

    "For the nation to heal we need to move on" etc.

    Would life imitate art?

    Even with the charges, even with the proof the charges are true will the powers that be decide, "we can't do that to the country"?
     
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    I’ve seen a lot of speculation that there is so much financial involvement with the mob that he knows if he tells everything he would be killed. 🤷‍♀️
     
    DaveXA said:
    Sherriff


    Yeah, I would think so. Would be interesting to see if he flips.
    Click to expand...

    Michael Cohen was on record saying he wouldn't turn against Trump no matter what

    When the matter on deck was a long time in prison he flipped

    But as Cohen said Trump rarely told you explicitly what to do and why he wanted it done.

    Trump suggested, hinted and implied , and there was no doubt what he wanted you to do but if the question is "Did Donald Trump tell you plainly to do X?" the answer is almost always no.

    And Trump gets to say "I never said that"
     
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    I will have my own personal holiday when Trump's children flip and testify against him to save their own arses. Criminal charges may be coming for the Trump children who worked at the Trump organization.

    www.theguardian.com

    The Trump kids look likely to turn on their dad – and I suspect Ivanka will go first | Arwa Mahdawi

    The former president is not in immediate danger of jail, but his problems are piling up fast. Not least the fact that, in his family, loyalty means nothing, says Guardian columnist Arwa Mahdawi
    www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

    It's an opinion article but I'm really looking forward to when they announce charges against Ivanka. No way in hell she goes to jail for Donald J Trump.
     
    He may, but I know a few people who voted for him that are really hoping he doesn’t run. All this stolen election stuff has soured them.
     
    Donald Trump managed to evade legal accountability throughout his presidency. That might be about to change — and the newest sign comes in a brief filed by the Justice Department.

    It doesn’t directly address the former president, yet has ominous implications for his ability to avoid responsibility for his role in the Jan. 6 insurrection.


    The Justice filing came in a lawsuit in which Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) and a number of Capitol Police officers have sued Trump and others for their roles in the insurrection.

    One of those named in the suit, Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), claimed that he is immune from personal liability under a law known as the Westfall Act, which shields federal officials acting within the scope of their employment.


    U.S. District Judge Amit P. Mehta asked for the Justice Department’s position, and, in a filing Tuesday, the department resoundingly rejected Brooks’s view. This is a correct — indeed, an unavoidable — interpretation of the law.

    It is a view that is directly relevant to Trump’s potential liability in the Swalwell lawsuit and other pending litigation, and a welcome departure from the position endorsed by the Justice Department in the defamation lawsuit filed against Trump by writer E. Jean Carroll……

     
    Optimus Prime said:
    Donald Trump managed to evade legal accountability throughout his presidency. That might be about to change — and the newest sign comes in a brief filed by the Justice Department.

    It doesn’t directly address the former president, yet has ominous implications for his ability to avoid responsibility for his role in the Jan. 6 insurrection.


    The Justice filing came in a lawsuit in which Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) and a number of Capitol Police officers have sued Trump and others for their roles in the insurrection.

    One of those named in the suit, Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), claimed that he is immune from personal liability under a law known as the Westfall Act, which shields federal officials acting within the scope of their employment.


    U.S. District Judge Amit P. Mehta asked for the Justice Department’s position, and, in a filing Tuesday, the department resoundingly rejected Brooks’s view. This is a correct — indeed, an unavoidable — interpretation of the law.

    It is a view that is directly relevant to Trump’s potential liability in the Swalwell lawsuit and other pending litigation, and a welcome departure from the position endorsed by the Justice Department in the defamation lawsuit filed against Trump by writer E. Jean Carroll……

    Click to expand...

    Good. Whether it's taxes, incitement or just plain treason, that orange scumbag needs to burn.
     
    From the Post

    I'll say it again, there needs to be an investigation
    ====================


    As evidence of Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election mounts, the time has come for the Justice Department to begin, if it hasn’t already, a criminal investigation of the former president’s dangerous course of conduct. Attorney General Merrick Garland has worked to restore the badly frayed public trust in a nonpartisan DOJ.

    But failing to investigate Trump just to demonstrate objectivity would itself be a political decision — and a grave mistake. If we are to maintain our democracy and respect for the rule of law, efforts to overturn a fair election simply cannot be tolerated, and Trump’s conduct must be investigated.

    The publicly known facts suffice to open an investigation, now. They include Trump’s demand that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger “find” 11,780 votes to declare he won that state’s election; Trump’s pressure on acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen as well as Vice President Mike Pence to advance the “big lie” that the election was stolen; the recently revealed phone call in which Trump directed Rosen to “just say the election was corrupt, [and] leave the rest to me,” and public statements by Trump and associates such as Rudolph W. Giuliani and Rep. Mo Brooks on Jan. 6 to incite the mob that stormed the Capitol.

    None of these facts alone proves a crime beyond a reasonable doubt, but together they clearly merit opening a criminal investigation, which would allow prosecutors to obtain phone and text records, emails, memos and witness testimony to determine whether Trump should be charged.

    One possible charge is conspiracy. It is a federal crime for individuals to agree to defraud the United States by interfering with governmental functions. Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III included such a conspiracy in his indictment against the Internet Research Agency, alleging the Russian group engaged in a conspiracy aimed at “impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions” of government agencies.

    An investigation could also explore whether Trump agreed with others — Giuliani, Brooks and possibly members of his inner circle — to obstruct Congress’s function of exercising its statutory duty to certify the election results on Jan. 6. By using disinformation to sow unfounded doubt, Trump and his allies may have tried to induce members of Congress to vote against certifying the election results, creating enough chaos to throw the election to the House, where Republicans controlled a majority of state delegations.

    Another plausible charge is obstruction of an official proceeding. The relevant statute makes it a crime to corruptly obstruct, influence or impede any official proceeding or attempt to do so. Agreeing with others to obstruct the Jan. 6 vote certification for a wrongful purpose and the commission of any act in furtherance of that agreement would suffice to prove a violation, putting Trump at the heart of a conspiracy, with his public statements and tweets constituting overt acts.

    A related but distinct charge is the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, “RICO,” which has often been used beyond its original intended target of organized crime. To prove RICO, the DOJ would need to establish that Trump was associated with an enterprise affecting interstate commerce, such as the office of the presidency, and committed at least two racketeering acts. One such act is extortion, which encompasses transmitting a threat to harm another’s reputation with intent to extract something of value. Trump’s conversations with Raffensperger, in which he suggested the secretary of state might have committed a crime and “that’s a big risk to you,” could fit that definition.

    Equally fit charges for investigation include violating the federal voter fraud statute and coercing federal employees to violate the Hatch Act by working to advance his political candidacy. Trump’s well-documented efforts to pressure state officials not to certify Biden’s election could run afoul of the voter fraud law, which prohibits anyone from defrauding the residents of a state of a fair election by tabulating false ballots, although Trump might argue that he believed he had won in those states.............

     
    For what it’s worth
    ================
    A Brookings Institution report by multiple legal experts (summarized for The Post) looks at former president Donald Trump’s possible criminal liability in Georgia, stemming from his call after the 2020 election demanding that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger “find” just enough Trump ballots to flip the state’s electoral votes.

    We should consider what the basis for charges would be, why it is more critical than ever to pursue prosecution and why, regardless of Georgia’s actions, the Justice Department must pursue a wide-ranging investigation and, if warranted, prosecution based on Trump’s entire scheme.


    The Brookings report makes a strong case. “We conclude that Trump’s post-election conduct in Georgia leaves him at substantial risk of possible state charges predicated on multiple crimes,” the authors find.

    “These charges potentially include criminal solicitation to commit election fraud; intentional interference with performance of election duties; conspiracy to commit election fraud; criminal solicitation; and state RICO violations.”


    In addition to other state crimes identified by the authors (such as criminal solicitation outside the election code), there may even be basis for extortion charges arising from Trump’s menacing suggestion that Raffensperger and his general counsel, Ryan Germany, could be prosecuted for not finding votes.

    “That’s a criminal offense,” Trump told Raffensperger. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.” Given that Trump headed the executive branch and routinely urged the Justice Department to do his bidding, a reasonable person in Raffensperger’s shoes might have considered that a threat……….

     
    Optimus Prime said:
    For what it’s worth
    ================
    A Brookings Institution report by multiple legal experts (summarized for The Post) looks at former president Donald Trump’s possible criminal liability in Georgia, stemming from his call after the 2020 election demanding that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger “find” just enough Trump ballots to flip the state’s electoral votes.

    We should consider what the basis for charges would be, why it is more critical than ever to pursue prosecution and why, regardless of Georgia’s actions, the Justice Department must pursue a wide-ranging investigation and, if warranted, prosecution based on Trump’s entire scheme.


    The Brookings report makes a strong case. “We conclude that Trump’s post-election conduct in Georgia leaves him at substantial risk of possible state charges predicated on multiple crimes,” the authors find.

    “These charges potentially include criminal solicitation to commit election fraud; intentional interference with performance of election duties; conspiracy to commit election fraud; criminal solicitation; and state RICO violations.”


    In addition to other state crimes identified by the authors (such as criminal solicitation outside the election code), there may even be basis for extortion charges arising from Trump’s menacing suggestion that Raffensperger and his general counsel, Ryan Germany, could be prosecuted for not finding votes.

    “That’s a criminal offense,” Trump told Raffensperger. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.” Given that Trump headed the executive branch and routinely urged the Justice Department to do his bidding, a reasonable person in Raffensperger’s shoes might have considered that a threat……….

    Click to expand...
    Maybe someone should remind Trump of his right to remain silent.

    He could plead the 5th, and still incriminate himself just by the prosecution playing rally videos.
     
    Optimus Prime said:
    For what it’s worth
    ================
    A Brookings Institution report by multiple legal experts (summarized for The Post) looks at former president Donald Trump’s possible criminal liability in Georgia, stemming from his call after the 2020 election demanding that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger “find” just enough Trump ballots to flip the state’s electoral votes.

    We should consider what the basis for charges would be, why it is more critical than ever to pursue prosecution and why, regardless of Georgia’s actions, the Justice Department must pursue a wide-ranging investigation and, if warranted, prosecution based on Trump’s entire scheme.


    The Brookings report makes a strong case. “We conclude that Trump’s post-election conduct in Georgia leaves him at substantial risk of possible state charges predicated on multiple crimes,” the authors find.

    “These charges potentially include criminal solicitation to commit election fraud; intentional interference with performance of election duties; conspiracy to commit election fraud; criminal solicitation; and state RICO violations.”


    In addition to other state crimes identified by the authors (such as criminal solicitation outside the election code), there may even be basis for extortion charges arising from Trump’s menacing suggestion that Raffensperger and his general counsel, Ryan Germany, could be prosecuted for not finding votes.

    “That’s a criminal offense,” Trump told Raffensperger. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.” Given that Trump headed the executive branch and routinely urged the Justice Department to do his bidding, a reasonable person in Raffensperger’s shoes might have considered that a threat……….

    Click to expand...

    Dear Joe. You know why Democrats lose? This. Failing to pursue egregious, treasonous crimes in order to 'spare the nation the spectacle." It just proves that you lack the courage of your convictions.
    You know why Barry got *crushed* in 2010? It wasn't Obamacare, it was failing to hold *anyone* responsible for the *massive, systemic fraud* that led to the Collapse.
    Don't make that mistake. Don't let equality before the law end on your watch.
     
    Optimus Prime said:
    For what it’s worth
    ================
    A Brookings Institution report by multiple legal experts (summarized for The Post) looks at former president Donald Trump’s possible criminal liability in Georgia, stemming from his call after the 2020 election demanding that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger “find” just enough Trump ballots to flip the state’s electoral votes.

    We should consider what the basis for charges would be, why it is more critical than ever to pursue prosecution and why, regardless of Georgia’s actions, the Justice Department must pursue a wide-ranging investigation and, if warranted, prosecution based on Trump’s entire scheme.


    The Brookings report makes a strong case. “We conclude that Trump’s post-election conduct in Georgia leaves him at substantial risk of possible state charges predicated on multiple crimes,” the authors find.

    “These charges potentially include criminal solicitation to commit election fraud; intentional interference with performance of election duties; conspiracy to commit election fraud; criminal solicitation; and state RICO violations.”


    In addition to other state crimes identified by the authors (such as criminal solicitation outside the election code), there may even be basis for extortion charges arising from Trump’s menacing suggestion that Raffensperger and his general counsel, Ryan Germany, could be prosecuted for not finding votes.

    “That’s a criminal offense,” Trump told Raffensperger. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.” Given that Trump headed the executive branch and routinely urged the Justice Department to do his bidding, a reasonable person in Raffensperger’s shoes might have considered that a threat……….

    Click to expand...
    Trump really needs to be prosecuted for these actions, otherwise future presidents will believe they can get away with it, and possibly go even further, since this would establish that Trump didn't even cross the line. He obviously did plot to overthrow the election, and that is over the line if we want to retain democracy.
     

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