Critical race theory (10 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[Farb]

In the US, outcomes for white people are much different than from black people who are born into the same circumstances. Also, Black people are generally born into less optimal circumstances than white people. I don't think i need to pull any statistics' for us to accept that general statement.

Do you believe that this disparity in outcomes is just a natural result of characteristics that are intrinsic to these two groups of people?

I guess I will agree to the above, but I don't think 'white supremacy' plays a part. Maybe on a day to day interaction if you interact with a out and out racist like Joy Reid on MSNBC but the vast majority of Americans...no.

I don't think white is any different from black. The disparity of outcomes comes from a lot of factors. Government intervention has greatly, probably more than anything else, helped create and maintain that disparity. As a black American, education is all but free and a black citizen is sought out over white and even Asian. Self betterment and a change of culture is needed but they vote for the racist that promise them everything and deliver nothing but more free money, there by making the majority of black dependent on the state. Remember, these dolts are telling you that poor black people are incapable of getting an ID to vote. The bigotry of low expectations is real and alarming. Good news is that people are waking up ot this. This is not a just a black community problem, it is in every community. You can simply look at the marriage/child birth rates to see this. Government free stuff = family unit crumbling. Family unit crumbling = society crumbling.

So no, the color of your skin or what is between your legs does not determine your life's outcome regardless how often the institutions in this country tells you they do.

 

[Farb]

I'm gonna flip this right back around regarding the thread topic:

I have yet to find anything indicating CRT was some pervasive force in education before it became some Fox talking point. - "hard to demonstrate all but impossible to prove but it affects every part of our lives in a negative way all day every day.
Are we just to take the right's word on this?"

This was well played.

 

[samiam5211]

I guess I will agree to the above, but I don't think 'white supremacy' plays a part. Maybe on a day to day interaction if you interact with a out and out racist like Joy Reid on MSNBC but the vast majority of Americans...no.

I don't think white is any different from black. The disparity of outcomes comes from a lot of factors. Government intervention has greatly, probably more than anything else, helped create and maintain that disparity. As a black American, education is all but free and a black citizen is sought out over white and even Asian. Self betterment and a change of culture is needed but they vote for the racist that promise them everything and deliver nothing but more free money, there by making the majority of black dependent on the state. Remember, these dolts are telling you that poor black people are incapable of getting an ID to vote. The bigotry of low expectations is real and alarming. Good news is that people are waking up ot this. This is not a just a black community problem, it is in every community. You can simply look at the marriage/child birth rates to see this. Government free stuff = family unit crumbling. Family unit crumbling = society crumbling.

So no, the color of your skin or what is between your legs does not determine your life's outcome regardless how often the institutions in this country tells you they do.

So what are you saying is the reason for the disparity?

You said black people need cultural change. Why is that? How did it end up that way? When did it end up that way?

 

[Farb]

So what are you saying is the reason for the disparity?

You said black people need cultural change. Why is that? How did it end up that way? When did it end up that way?

I also pointed out that this is not just a black issue but an all groups issue.
The reason, IMO, is the government purposely cultivating citizens to rely on them as opposed to relying on themselves, family, church and community. Once the government became 'Dad' that made the real Dad expendable so you are left with a generation of people, especially young men that have no idea what it takes to actually be a man. Hence the rise in violent crime and sexual assault. Get the government out of the home and you will see a change across the board.

 

[brandon]

I am still waiting for someone to show me the law/policy today in our society/laws that show systemic racism.

Government intervention has greatly, probably more than anything else, helped create and maintain that disparity.

Oops.

 

[Farb]

Failed again.

Sheriffs IN THE US arose particularly in the South from slave patrols. Take a reading comprehension course. Further in that is the concept of sheriff/policing arises from maintaining the power holders in a political economic setting deriving from class/caste arrangements.

Sorry, again the dynamics of racism in the US derive from a position of power. Power position is the determining factor in the US because that is how racism in the US was established. It was tied precisely to whiteness being superior in the minds of power holders. The seceding states at the time of the civil war stated it as such.

Sorry, you not only don’t get to change the definition as it applies to the political economic power structure, you don’t get to change it as it relates historically just to make your feelings a little happier.

So it is just the sheriffs department or all police?
Can you show me where it has been stated that sheriffs are just official slave patrols?

 

[samiam5211]

I also pointed out that this is not just a black issue but an all groups issue.
The reason, IMO, is the government purposely cultivating citizens to rely on them as opposed to relying on themselves, family, church and community. Once the government became 'Dad' that made the real Dad expendable so you are left with a generation of people, especially young men that have no idea what it takes to actually be a man. Hence the rise in violent crime and sexual assault. Get the government out of the home and you will see a change across the board.

When did the government become "dad" for Black people?

Was it after the 1960s when the Johnson ushered in the "welfare state"?

So things were better for Black people before the 1960s?

Please explain where things went wrong?

 

[Eeyore]

School Removes Student Project About Fascism After Cops Complain

Students at an Indiana high school are on their third day of virtual learning because they protested the school’s decision to remove a class project about ‘V for Vendetta’ which addressed police brutality.

www.vice.com

 

[bird]

I also pointed out that this is not just a black issue but an all groups issue.
The reason, IMO, is the government purposely cultivating citizens to rely on them as opposed to relying on themselves, family, church and community. Once the government became 'Dad' that made the real Dad expendable so you are left with a generation of people, especially young men that have no idea what it takes to actually be a man. Hence the rise in violent crime and sexual assault. Get the government out of the home and you will see a change across the board.

Bullschlitz, pure and simple. If anything corporations rely on the government to be "daddy" to them. They rely on tax abatements. They rely on the tax code being configured to benefit them. The same applies to wealth.

You know little and understand nothing.

Get the government out of the home? I would have loved the government being in my home when my father broke my mother's arm or her ribs. As for having any idea what it means to be a man I will not take any advice from you on the subject. What you wish for is a return to the '50's which is generally where conservatives like to live. Gays stayed in the closet, women kept their mouths shut and minorities paid deference and obeisance to the White Man simply because the White Man was white.

Your condescension has been exposed as not merely condescension but worse, a classic example of "The White Man's Burden".

 

[Farb]

When did the government become "dad" for Black people?

Was it after the 1960s when the Johnson ushered in the "welfare state"?

So things were better for Black people before the 1960s?

Please explain where things went wrong?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/marriage_rate_2018/marriage_rate_2018.htm

This is from the CDC so take it with a large grain of salt but the answer to your questions is yes.

Things were not better for before civil rights but the family unit was indeed stronger and that decline has led to the culture that we currently have where we glorify criminals and racists.
Obviously you think the welfare is a huge success. Can you show proof of the net good it has accomplished?

 

[samiam5211]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/marriage_rate_2018/marriage_rate_2018.htm

This is from the CDC so take it with a large grain of salt but the answer to your questions is yes.

Things were not better for before civil rights but the family unit was indeed stronger and that decline has led to the culture that we currently have where we glorify criminals and racists.
Obviously you think the welfare is a huge success. Can you show proof of the net good it has accomplished?

So you believe that black people were better off before the 1960s.

Why weren't they achieving equal outcomes with white people back then?

 

[Farb]

Bullschlitz, pure and simple. If anything corporations rely on the government to be "daddy" to them. They rely on tax abatements. They rely on the tax code being configured to benefit them. The same applies to wealth.

You know little and understand nothing.

Get the government out of the home? I would have loved the government being in my home when my father broke my mother's arm or her ribs. As for having any idea what it means to be a man I will not take any advice from you on the subject. What you wish for is a return to the '50's which is generally where conservatives like to live. Gays stayed in the closet, women kept their mouths shut and minorities paid deference and obeisance to the White Man simply because the White Man was white.

Your condescension has been exposed as not merely condescension but worse, a classic example of "The White Man's Burden".

Always keeping it not personal and classy as usual. Always a sign of a winning argument.

I like being on the board and I would like to stay so this will be last I speak to you.

 

[Farb]

So you believe that black people were better off before the 1960s.

Why weren't they achieving equal outcomes with white people back then?

I don't know if you think the gotcha was clever and I will fall for it or you purposely missed my first statement about civil rights and the family unit.

 

[samiam5211]

I don't know if you think the gotcha was clever and I will fall for it or you purposely missed my first statement about civil rights and the family unit.

I am just trying to figure out what you think is behind the difference in outcomes between black people and white people in the US if you do not think it is because of systemic racism.

And yes, it is a gotcha question, because the only other option sounds racist when you say it out loud, which you are desperately trying to avoid.

 

[Sandman]

I don't know if you think the gotcha was clever and I will fall for it or you purposely missed my first statement about civil rights and the family unit.

Actually, it is a good question. Not a "gotcha." You don't want to answer it because the answer you give will not support your position. If you ignore the bad points on your position, it makes your opinion weaker, not stronger.

 

[J-DONK]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/marriage_rate_2018/marriage_rate_2018.htm

This is from the CDC so take it with a large grain of salt but the answer to your questions is yes.

Things were not better for before civil rights but the family unit was indeed stronger and that decline has led to the culture that we currently have where we glorify criminals and racists.
Obviously you think the welfare is a huge success. Can you show proof of the net good it has accomplished?

How do you point to marriage rates decline, and think welfare has anything to do with this? Isn't a college degree one of the strongest indicators of marriage? Hasn't inequality played a significant role in the erosion of marriage as uneducated men can't provide for a family? How do social safety net programs have any role in this? If I take your comments at face value. It appears your asserting the government is purposefully driving income inequality to make individuals more reliant on government handouts. The government wants to erode the family unit, and make men more violent, and rapey. That sounds insane man.

P.S. It's well known that violent crime has been trending down since the 90's.

 

[Farb]

How do you point to marriage rates decline, and think welfare has anything to do with this? Isn't a college degree one of the strongest indicators of marriage? Hasn't inequality played a significant role in the erosion of marriage as uneducated men can't provide for a family? How do social safety net programs have any role in this? If I take your comments at face value. It appears your asserting the government is purposefully driving income inequality to make individuals more reliant on government handouts. The government wants to erode the family unit, and make men more violent, and rapey. That sounds insane man.

P.S. It's well known that violent crime has been trending down since the 90's.

It does sound insane but yes, that is exactly what I believe. Although I don't think 'rapey' and 'violent' was the goal, just a by product of removing fathers from the home and leaving young men to be raised by culture.

 

[MT15]

Farb - stay with me here. You would rather believe in a vast conspiracy carried out by the (gulp) “deep state” than what actually happened? Why would all these people who work in government conspire to break up families?

My own hazy understanding is much more plausible. Since I’m no historian, maybe someone can correct me when I go astray. But my understanding doesn’t involve crazy conspiracies.

It is rather a case of unintended consequences and yes, outright racism. Black men and boys have been incarcerated at much higher rates than white men and boys for decades. That is just an objective fact. My belief is that the system was set up to “punish” black men and boys much more harshly than white people for various reasons. You can choose any reason you want, but it doesn’t change the objective fact.

Those men were generally fathers and/or husbands, leaving a lot of black women to fend for themselves. Welfare was created to help people who needed help, like them. But politicians were wary of people trying to game the system, so they stipulated that if the family unit was intact they didn’t qualify for welfare. By stipulating that, destitute families would qualify for aid only if the father was absent. So another subset of families was broken up because they needed the help so badly.

Of course this is completely simplistic and the real situations are much more complex. But it isn’t a grand conspiracy of “deep state” bureaucrats. I promise.

So, racism in the court system led to a lot of fatherless homes (this impacted black families much more prevalently). The war on drugs alone accounted for a lot of this impact. Then, in their bid to combat welfare fraud, politicians incentivized fathers to leave families.