Critical race theory (2 Viewers)

DaveXA

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Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.
 

coldseat

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I honestly don't know to much about CRT. I wasn't taught it in school and I'm not a teacher. But this thread made me curious and found what seems like a pretty good primer in the attached article below. I'd be intereted to know the thoughts of somebody with more actual knowledge of it.

 

zztop

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I posted these in a topic in the liberal forum, I guess I'll post them here too



so I'm seeing this pop up more frequently "critical race theory" and a pushback by republicans

Harvard Kennedy School’s Shorenstein Center says the term became the subject of a GOP disinformation campaign after the Trump administration turned against it. Using Critical Race Theory, the Georgia legislature would have considered the historical and structural factors of voter suppression before passing their draconian electoral reforms. And now, regular white people are lashing out against the term.
 

Saintamaniac

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In order to understand where you are going, you have to know and understand where you come from.
 

Saintamaniac

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Yeah, but the question remains, does this really do that? How do we know if we don't know what it is?
To a degree, I think it does. It's certainly not a panacea for the inherent problems in our system but I think it attempts to examine why we have the problems we do. I don't think it makes blaming white people its central tenant but that's what critics of CRT want people to believe.
 
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DaveXA

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Thanks for this I've watched about half of it and will finish later today. What got may attention was several states not mentioning slavery at all. Which is baffling to me. Whitewashed history indeed.

I learned about the Underground Railroad, Harriet Tubman, George Washington Carver, Frederick Douglass, the slave trade, politics of the Civil War among many other things when I was in school. I'm surprised that's not being taught in some schools. I've talked with my own kids about the little bit I know about black history and we've visited the history museum in DC.

I think black history is an integral part of our history, and it's disappointing that so many people can't even acknowledge that. We should do and be better, but I don't really have an answer outside of trying to do my part with my own family.
 

UriUT

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I was also unaware of this issue until the idaho legislature decided to ban it. It was still under the radar until I randomly saw this video:



It's an interesting perspective on music theory. If you think about it, our perspectives are Euro-centric; that of the white male in particular. Essentially, the rules of what qualifies as good music is based on those written by the white male. Therefore those music that don't abide by those rules aren't considered good music. For example, ben shapiro says rap isn't music. From who's perspective?

It's a long video. It's also very educational. Extrapolate this notion of musical theory to other aspects and I believe you'd understand critical race theory. (Cliff notes...go to the ~22 min for the meat of the argument). For example, let's bring that judge who didn't realize he sentenced blacks more harshly for the same crime as a white person. The rules are written by that white judge who didn't even realize he was institutionally racist in his sentencing. Perhaps he views blacks as more deserving of the sentencing subconsciously. As is the case, he sets rules based on his perspectives (that of a white male). And as it turns out is unfair to other groups.
 

samiam5211

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Slavery in the US should be treated with the same level of disgust as the holocaust.

We do not have a true depiction of what happened during that time.

Do any of us really believe that plantation owners wasted resources feeding disabled children born to their slaves? What do farmers do with sick or disabled livestock?

There are undoubtedly mass graves all over the South.
 

coldseat

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Thanks for this I've watched about half of it and will finish later today. What got may attention was several states not mentioning slavery at all. Which is baffling to me. Whitewashed history indeed.

I learned about the Underground Railroad, Harriet Tubman, George Washington Carver, Frederick Douglass, the slave trade, politics of the Civil War among many other things when I was in school. I'm surprised that's not being taught in some schools. I've talked with my own kids about the little bit I know about black history and we've visited the history museum in DC.

I think black history is an integral part of our history, and it's disappointing that so many people can't even acknowledge that. We should do and be better, but I don't really have an answer outside of trying to do my part with my own family.

I learned about Harriet Tubman, slavery, the civil war and the Civil rights movement in school too (incomplete and biased as it may have been), but there was so, so much about black history and our countries history with race that I didn't learn. Things like Black Wall Street and the Tulsa race riots, Juneteenth, African American representatives in Congress after the Civil War, Redlining, Backlash to Busing and Integration, The Southern Strategy, not to mention Black black poets, engineers, inventors, doctors, teachers, etc. that have contributed to American society.

There was so much that we weren't taught about black/America's history that when I learned about these things as an adult, it really changed my perception and understanding of what America is and how it functions and I think that's what really scares the people that oppose CRT. Not what is actually taught or that it's wrong.
 

insidejob

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I honestly don't know to much about CRT. I wasn't taught it in school and I'm not a teacher. But this thread made me curious and found what seems like a pretty good primer in the attached article below. I'd be intereted to know the thoughts of somebody with more actual knowledge of it.

The only visible comment to the article without clicking on the comments link:

The fact that the author of this article capitalized black but not white should tell you all you need to know.
ETA: I learned about CRT in depth in college. My sister teaches social studies at Ben Franklin (where she also went to high school) and teaches CRT to ninth graders. She won teacher of the year in her department, which was voted on by the students, and is up for teacher of the year for the whole school - as are every other winner in their department - but it's voted on by school administration and faculty and she likely has no chance because she's one of the strongest leaders of her teachers' union and is fighting against the school's attempt to reallocate the teacher pay raise of $800/year per teacher that was just approved by the legislature specifically as a pay raise for teachers but doesn't include language that stops administration from not actually doing just that. The school is trying to fill other budget shortfalls using these funds and not give the teachers a raise at all. (Sorry for the run-on sentence, but it seems to be pretty grammatically correct after re-reading it a few times. I just love using hyphens/dashes instead of creating new sentences.)
 
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RebSaint

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I'm an academic (or pretend to be, at least) and I think CRT is just another way of including race as a social construction into lots of things where it's been ignored or (pardon the pun) whitewashed.

Historians for years (well, since the 1970s) have been using CRT to examine a litany of topics, including slavery, American culture, identity and lots of other things. As I understand it, too CRT is different from black history in that the former examines race (or racism) as an important driver of history rather than looking at blacks within even a very whitewashed version of history. We've had black history since American historians began examining the history of the country, but recognizing and studying race as a underlying factor within various historical power structures is a (relatively speaking) new phenomenon.

Put another way, I don't think CRT is a term that most historians have or currently use, but they've been utilizing CRT methodologies for nearly 50 years.
 

SystemShock

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It's an interesting perspective on music theory. If you think about it, our perspectives are Euro-centric; that of the white male in particular. Essentially, the rules of what qualifies as good music is based on those written by the white male. Therefore those music that don't abide by those rules aren't considered good music. For example, ben shapiro says rap isn't music. From who's perspective?

I don't think anyone should be surprised that music perspectives in the U.S. are those of the European white male, being that we live in a country founded by European white males with a predominantly white population.

I also find it ironic, how white Eurocentric that video is.

And no one should listen what that LWB Ben Shapiro says, ever.
 

Saintamaniac

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I think black history is an integral part of our history, and it's disappointing that so many people can't even acknowledge that. We should do and be better, but I don't really have an answer outside of trying to do my part with my own family.
Black history is OUR history along with every other ethnic group that helped build the US. Unfortunately, significant achievements made by blacks were either credited to someone else or ignored altogether. This is what necessitated the creation of Black History month. Hell, I was a sophomore in high school when I read the autobiography of Malcolm X and realized that he wasn't the scourge of the black community that I was taught he was.

I was fortunate to attend a high school where every month was black history month. And even with that, it wasn't until the movie came out that I learned that John Glenn trusted a black female mathematician with his life prior to becoming the first American to orbit the earth.
 

Saintman2884

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I was also unaware of this issue until the idaho legislature decided to ban it. It was still under the radar until I randomly saw this video:



It's an interesting perspective on music theory. If you think about it, our perspectives are Euro-centric; that of the white male in particular. Essentially, the rules of what qualifies as good music is based on those written by the white male. Therefore those music that don't abide by those rules aren't considered good music. For example, ben shapiro says rap isn't music. From who's perspective?


It's a long video. It's also very educational. Extrapolate this notion of musical theory to other aspects and I believe you'd understand critical race theory. (Cliff notes...go to the ~22 min for the meat of the argument). For example, let's bring that judge who didn't realize he sentenced blacks more harshly for the same crime as a white person. The rules are written by that white judge who didn't even realize he was institutionally racist in his sentencing. Perhaps he views blacks as more deserving of the sentencing subconsciously. As is the case, he sets rules based on his perspectives (that of a white male). And as it turns out is unfair to other groups.
Again, someone a little more clever could also take this theory and its applications and expand this much further to everything about Western civilization, even back to the ancient Greeks, Romans, their cultural, political, religious ideals, concepts, Western classical literature, legendary operas, concertos, plays classical and Western Enlightenment philosophes are incontrovertibly racist, have unconsciously, subconsciously, or knowingly 2-3,000 thousand years of supremacist, ethnocentric overtones and that fundamentally its usefulness, utility is discredited, meaningfulness, is at an end and that is belongs in the intellectual "dustin of history". Marx, Engels, Trotsky, other late 19th and 20th century left-wing intellectuals, philosophers, lawmakers were as Euro centric as the laissez-faire, decadent immoral and unethical bourgeiouse they despised and wanted to be overthrown. Marx and Engels believed Russians were backward, incorrigable peasant society that could never successfully try a workers, proletariat revolution, they would've found even the concept of the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution asinine and that Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev were idiotic, fanciful delusional fools. Sure 19th and 20th century communist/orthodox Marxists may have found other non-European cultures, civilizations fascinating, wondrous beyond belief but do you really think they believed they belived those same civilizations or cultures were as equal as their Eurocentric reflections and centuries of descended-upon indoctrination, beliefs of superiority. Marx and Engels likely wouldve scoffed and ridiculed at people like AOC, Illam Omar, Tlalib and the notion that they were idealogically equal or that their countries all these women's ancestors immigrated from could successfully build or construct a pure Marxist-Leninist anarcho-communist state. These women's ancestors, to Marx and Engels, came from mostly rural, backward, scarcely industrialized superstitious societies still controlled by autocratic clergy or a decaying, quickly rotting and disintegrating Ottoman Empire that everyone believed 125 years ago would collapse(l
Google "Eastern Question" to get more detailed specifics.

My point is trying to argue where does it eventually end, I'm sure CRT and 1619 has extremely strong, valid historically substantiative conclusions, but where is the eventual end game? How do we know some vindictive, CRL theorists with ulterior motives and agendas, take these ideas and radicalize them turning their attention to newer targets? Most progressives seem to believe some of these ideas can be kept moderate, and that someone eventually won't distort it and out-manuever or tout they have "better credentials" and incapable of no longer giving informed opinions on the matter.

What we believe to be rational, logically scientific ideas or movements could 150 years from now might be seen as well-intentioned or well-meaning, but was hijacked, manipulated, and distorted and didn't lead to the ultimate long-term social progress its promoters and advocates wholeheartedly believed it would or we're so sure they'd covered every little eventuality or potential flaw. That's not fear-mongering, or being cynical its recorded, historical facts and consensus.

Conservatives aren't saying or using this exact rhetoric or logic, yet at least, because they think the MSM will crush and ridicule it as propesterous, and extreme but I truly believe when some of them see or read CRT curriculum, their minds start getting imaginative and they foresee something like Fahrenheit 451 occuring in the distant future. Anyone's who's read the novel or saw the good HBO original TV movie starring Michael B. Jordan and Michael Shannon that came out 2-3 years ago will know what I'm referring to and if you haven't, I highly recommend it. Maybe I'm wrong in how I think that could be one of their privately-held motivations and opinions discussed in what's one of their primary reasons, on the surface, at least.
 

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