Critical race theory (9 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[samiam5211]

Libertarians should not have any issues with how AT&T do business. However, a libertarian working for AT&T may feel oppressed by a company that wants to regulate how humans should interact with each other. The regulation of human behavior by those in authority is not what a libertarian may embrace. This makes no sense as most Libertarians favor the "live and let live" approach.

I work in a small company with 40-50 employees. The diversity is massive and differences among employees ethnicities has never been a problem. Introducing a program to regulate interactions would destroy the character of the business and likely create divisions where there are none.

IMO the best approach for unity and lack of discrimination is to consider the idea that we are all from the same family rather than distinct groups.

Obviously no. Libertarians want a tiny government.

So I guess libertarians get put in a bind when other people's version of "live" conflicts with their version of "live".

Maybe that is a flaw in the philosophy. It works best when the population of the planet is 1.

 

[Paul]

So I guess libertarians get put in a bind when other people's version of "live" conflicts with their version of "live".

The forceful regulation of human behavior by authority has never worked. Mao, Lenin, religion, and many others tried and in the long run it tends not to work. The Amish know this and they give the opportunity to their adolescents to walk away.

Human behavior changes are best and enduring when they happen organically. America has done a great job in reducing bigotry even if there is still a long way to go. The changes in my lifetime have been massive and I do not endure the obstacles I faced in my 20s. The constant barrage of trying to forcefully indoctrinate people is too excessive. Don't get me wrong I can see the desperation in those that want lighting speed change.

I can envision a confident POC happily working in one of these companies that is now reminded by the training that he is to be treated with white gloves. Maybe it is just me, but I see a chilling effect.

 

[samiam5211]

The forceful regulation of human behavior by authority has never worked. Mao, Lenin, religion, and many others tried and in the long run it tends not to work. The Amish know this and they give the opportunity to their adolescents to walk away.

Human behavior changes are best and enduring when they happen organically. America has done a great job in reducing bigotry even if there is still a long way to go. The changes in my lifetime have been massive and I do not endure the obstacles I faced in my 20s. The constant barrage of trying to forcefully indoctrinate people is too excessive. Don't get me wrong I can see the desperation in those that want lighting speed change.

I can envision a confident POC happily working in one of these companies that is now reminded by the training that he is to be treated with white gloves. Maybe it is just me, but I see a chilling effect.

So I assume that you consider people having to work for wages as coercion then. That is the only way that a company having a policy could be coercive. Maybe you are a libertarian communist.

 

[Paul]

So I assume that you consider people having to work for wages as coercion then. That is the only way that a company having a policy could be coercive. Maybe you are a libertarian communist.

Working for a private company, another person, or even the government is a form of slavery; it is coercion. Somehow we go along, but it is slavery. The boss dictates the terms of employment and the rules to follow.

Communism is ultimate coercion unless you are talking about the utopic last stage of communism where there is no state. I am not a libertarian as I favor a significant government role in health care and education. However, I like many things about the libertarian philosophy

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Working for a private company, another person, or even the government is a form of slavery; it is coercion. Somehow we go along, but it is slavery. The boss dictates the terms of employment and the rules to follow.

Communism is ultimate coercion unless you are talking about the utopic last stage of communism where there is no state. I am not a libertarian as I favor a significant government role in health care and education. However, I like many things about the libertarian philosophy

How do you propose we provide for ourselves in a way that isn't slavery or coercion?

 

[J-DONK]

How do you propose we provide for ourselves in a way that isn't slavery or coercion?

Paul just wants us all to work for co-ops from what it sounds like.

 

[Paul]

How do you propose we provide for ourselves in a way that isn't slavery or coercion?

A communist or 100% socialist system. This has always been the stateless Utopia the left dreams about. It has been tried a few times and has failed.

Not long ago this was tried in small communes and it worked. Pure socialism can work in small groups if the members of the commune are 100% dedicated to socialism. This requires a lot of commitment and 100% agreement among the commune members. There must be a willingness to share and not to be petty about who works more and who is lazy. A "Borg" like mindset is needed. Once the group becomes large then the "Borg" like one mind for the entire commune breaks down and the system fails.

The 2nd alternative is to be self employed, but in the end the self employed is enslaved to the customers.

The 3rd alternative is technology. A future where technology is so advanced that ALL people receive what they need and more. This is the most plausible solution for a world where people do not have to work for wages to survive. People will work for the sake of working, achievement, fame, and social prestige. Currency would not be needed. However, there is also the possibility this could lead to two class system: Those that work and achieve and those that are non-entities and simply exist with nothing to do.

 

[samiam5211]

A communist or 100% socialist system. This has always been the stateless Utopia the left dreams about. It has been tried a few times and has failed.

Not long ago this was tried in small communes and it worked. Pure socialism can work in small groups if the members of the commune are 100% dedicated to socialism. This requires a lot of commitment and 100% agreement among the commune members. There must be a willingness to share and not to be petty about who works more and who is lazy. A "Borg" like mindset is needed. Once the group becomes large then the "Borg" like one mind for the entire commune breaks down and the system fails.

The 2nd alternative is to be self employed, but in the end the self employed is enslaved to the customers.

The 3rd alternative is technology. A future where technology is so advanced that ALL people receive what they need and more. This is the most plausible solution for a world where people do not have to work for wages to survive. People will work for the sake of working, achievement, fame, and social prestige. Currency would not be needed. However, there is also the possibility this could lead to two class system: Those that work and achieve and those that are non-entities and simply exist with nothing to do.

How many times has democracy failed?

Everything humans do eventually fails, why bother with anything?

 

[Paul]

How many times has democracy failed?

There is no perfect system. America has tried to improve on democracy with a republic. Otherwise, democracy or rule by the majority can be deadly for the minority.

Everything humans do eventually fails, why bother with anything?

That is not what I implied samiam. Do you think humans should try socialism once again? There are many who think they can get it right this time around.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

A communist or 100% socialist system. This has always been the stateless Utopia the left dreams about. It has been tried a few times and has failed.

Not long ago this was tried in small communes and it worked. Pure socialism can work in small groups if the members of the commune are 100% dedicated to socialism. This requires a lot of commitment and 100% agreement among the commune members. There must be a willingness to share and not to be petty about who works more and who is lazy. A "Borg" like mindset is needed. Once the group becomes large then the "Borg" like one mind for the entire commune breaks down and the system fails.

The 2nd alternative is to be self employed, but in the end the self employed is enslaved to the customers.

The 3rd alternative is technology. A future where technology is so advanced that ALL people receive what they need and more. This is the most plausible solution for a world where people do not have to work for wages to survive. People will work for the sake of working, achievement, fame, and social prestige. Currency would not be needed. However, there is also the possibility this could lead to two class system: Those that work and achieve and those that are non-entities and simply exist with nothing to do.

I didn't mean to imply that I was asking for random proposals. I mean you, specifically. What is Paul's ideal world in which people are able to provide for themselves without coercion?

 

[samiam5211]

There is no perfect system. America has tried to improve on democracy with a republic. Otherwise, democracy or rule by the majority can be deadly for the minority.

That is not what I implied samiam. Do you think humans should try socialism once again? There are many who think they can get it right this time around.

There have been plenty of kings who said the people could not govern themselves. The Roman’s and Greeks had tried already and failed. The French people had a king, why should they give that up and try for a utopian idea like self government?

 

[Paul]

There have been plenty of kings who said the people could not govern themselves. The Roman’s and Greeks had tried already and failed. The French people had a king, why should they give that up and try for a utopian idea like self government?

Are you implying communism should be tried again? I actually think communism is inevitable and it happens because of the success of capitalism. In other words technology causes capitalism to burn out. Wealth will be nearly redundant and it will be pointless for the ultra rich to accumulate more wealth. We already see billionaires like Bill Gates giving their wealth away. We can also see how technology has risen the standard of living for most.

 

[samiam5211]

Are you implying communism should be tried again? I actually think communism is inevitable and it happens because of the success of capitalism. In other words technology causes capitalism to burn out. Wealth will be nearly redundant and it will be pointless for the ultra rich to accumulate more wealth. We already see billionaires like Bill Gates giving their wealth away. We can also see how technology has risen the standard of living for most.

Yea, I agree. That's Marxism bud.

 

[Paul]

Yea, I agree. That's Marxism bud.

Exactly! Marx was brilliant and he was correct in his analysis of capitalism with regards to inequality. The diagnosis of Marx was correct, however, the prescribed treatment has not worked. if anything it made things much worse. The treatment preferred by the left does not work.

In every generation the young people fall in love with the message of Marx (who would not?). The message is compelling and always attractive to the young left leaning kids. But, they do not have a clue and want to destroy capitalism which is the engine that will create the wealth to have utopic socialism.

 

[MT15]

I hate to burst your bubble Paul, but do you know who really wants to destroy this country? Radical Evangelical Christians. The left in this country poses exactly zero danger right now. It’s the radical Christians who want to tear everything down.

As just one example, check out this little hate machine. Her name is Emerald Robinson. She works for NewsMax. She has over 400k followers on Twitter. She has a sub stack website. She’s the most hateful person I have come across recently on Twitter. I have no idea why Twitter tolerates her election and vaccine lies, her hate for Muslims, her hate for LBGTQIA, her hate for everyone except people who worship Trump. She wields her Christianity as a weapon against all these people.

I won’t link to her stuff, it’s that bad.

I haven’t seen anyone on the left post that sort of hatefulness with that level of following.

Here‘s the thing, she isn’t alone. There are too many of these hate-mongers on the right to list. Just look at the sites on FB with the most traffic on any given day, and you will find right wing extremism and hate.

So it’s hard to understand your obsession with a very disjointed and unorganized left when we see what we are seeing from the right.

 

[MT15]

Here’s another example. The radical Christian Right is using violent imagery of war and death regularly.

 

[Paul]

I hate to burst your bubble Paul, but do you know who really wants to destroy this country? Radical Evangelical Christians. The left in this country poses exactly zero danger right now. It’s the radical Christians who want to tear everything down.

As just one example, check out this little hate machine. Her name is Emerald Robinson. She works for NewsMax. She has over 400k followers on Twitter. She has a sub stack website. She’s the most hateful person I have come across recently on Twitter. I have no idea why Twitter tolerates her election and vaccine lies, her hate for Muslims, her hate for LBGTQIA, her hate for everyone except people who worship Trump. She wields her Christianity as a weapon against all these people.

I won’t link to her stuff, it’s that bad.

I haven’t seen anyone on the left post that sort of hatefulness with that level of following.

Here‘s the thing, she isn’t alone. There are too many of these hate-mongers on the right to list. Just look at the sites on FB with the most traffic on any given day, and you will find right wing extremism and hate.

So it’s hard to understand your obsession with a very disjointed and unorganized left when we see what we are seeing from the right.

It is possible that the so called hard left socialists are not a threat, I agree. However, they get a lot of negative press. It is quite likely that most little kids is public schools are not indoctrinated in
Social engineering curricula to alter behavior. We may very well be victims of hyper sensational media.

I have seen crazy evangelicals and even a few Catholics too. I am an agnostic but still go to mass because my wife is a believer. Most Christians I see are quite harmless and many in the Catholic Church are liberals in the Kennedy family mold.

A few evangelicals I have met are scary and make me think of the Muslim fundamentalists in their fervor. However, the Amish are quite conservative, but incredibly nice and generous.

I do not live in the Bible Belt so I don’t really much. I will check out that woman.

The nation is in better shape than what we think, but the media and politicians thrive on chaos and division.

 

[Paul]

Here’s another example. The radical Christian Right is using violent imagery of war and death regularly.

That will be the word you all hate, tribalism. And the more tribal one side gets, the more tribal the other side gets.