Critical race theory (14 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I will take a try at it. It is pretty easy, it was done in the past until the very near present. How about going back to what was being taught in schools before CRT was pushed, by the activists/teachers into schools?

We were all taught about segregation and slavery. We called it history. All the ugly was taught too, we just didn't point to out the difference between the white kids and the black kids and associate them to the people we were reading about. That is the goal of CRT, to assign 'blame' and promote victimhood.

There was slavery and it was bad and Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves

There was racism and it was bad and Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks ended racism (with a little LBJ thrown in)

In February we added Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman and George Washington Carver

I grew up in liberal Montgomery County in usually blue Maryland and didn't learn much more than this

This was in the 80s and 90s but it sure doesn't seem that things are much different

I posted this a few months ago and this what people who say "why can't we go back to how it used to be taught" mean

Lincoln, MLK, Rosa Parks. The end. Thanks for playing

 

[Paul]

But what if your grandfather was part of the majority of white people in the south pushing for segregation and Jim Crow laws, and the legacy of that past (which you admit has an impact on the future) in today's society is increased poverty, de facto segregation, unequal policing, and lower health outcomes, as well as a myriad of other issues.

Would you at least want to know about it? No one is saying you have to pay the price for your grandparents' sins, or that you have to admit you're an unaware oppressor today. But wouldn't you want to know the current societal implications of oppression that occurred in your grandparents' lifetime? Wouldn't learning that information allow you to grow into a person who at least recognizes that race relations are not perfect, and a large part of the reason why is the fact that you're trying to treat these relatively recent events as the same kind of history as dinosaurs and the Knights Templar?

Teach the history without shaming the descendants of racist whites or making the POC children victims. A kid that grows up with victimhood is a tragedy. Teach the bad history and then give the kids something positive. The fact that racism has gone down markedly and only 53 years elapsed between the Rosa Parks incident and the election of Obama. Present a balanced picture of history without the need to embrace the role of the noble victim. Study slavery not from a victimhood perspective, but from a global perspective. Make POC kids see that they are not the only descendants of slaves in the world. For God's sake give them hope! Why do you think Jamaicans and Nigerians have better perspective than African Americans? They grew up in a normal environment where they did not hear they were victims 24/7.

What does this mean? That teachers are required to only teach that something happened on a certain date and in a certain place? You, the great champion of education, would not want a more critical analysis of the historical, current, and future implications of major historical events? You don't want to apply lessons from history to today's society?

All historical events have implications. The Cro Magnon man played a role in the extinction of the Neanderthal man. How far back to you want to go. The North of Africa used to be Christian. Saint Augustin the greatest saint and philosopher of the Church was a North African. Today North Africa is Muslim . How about kicking those Muslims out? As I said anything we do today has an effect on the future. The butterfly effect is powerful.

It sounds like you don't want to learn from history. You only want to learn about history. And you want to force others to do the same. And you know what they say about those who don't learn from history--they're doomed to repeat it.

Nice cliché Brandon. The USA and other Western nations have indeed learned from the past. That is why poor POC people in the world want to immigrate to America.

 

[Farb]

We teach history as it happened, period. We don't sugarcoat anything, we teach reality, and we learn from it. It's so simple, yet you are so fragile that the thought of children learning the accurate history of this country- and the world- frightens you. It must be exhausting to be this scared every day.

Notice how we have now switched to the truth?
Only a month or so ago, everyone one of you were convinced that CRT was only discussed as a theory in law school. We were all crazy to even think this was being taught in education schools. Now, your thought makers have decided that is no longer a tenable argument. Now the narrative has been changed again but you guys don't even question why, you just follow the marching orders.

It is simply amazing actually.

And yes, it is exhausting but I think you confuse being 'scared' as being honest.

 

[Farb]

There was slavery and it was bad and Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves

There was racism and it was bad and Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks ended racism (with a little LBJ thrown in)

In February we added Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman and George Washington Carver

I grew up in liberal Montgomery County in usually blue Maryland and didn't learn much more than this

This was in the 80s and 90s but it sure doesn't seem that things are much different

I posted this a few months ago and this what people who say "why can't we go back to how it used to be taught" mean

Lincoln, MLK, Rosa Parks. The end. Thanks for playing

Yeah, I think someone should have shown up for class or had better adults to educate them outside the classroom but then again, I went to private school so I was educated more better.

 

[Farb]

Your white guilt is preventing you from understanding white privilege. I feel so sorry for you.

Your victimhood is causing you to be offended by micro aggressions and other things that don't exist. Talk about mixed messages. I feel so sorry for you.

 

[samiam5211]

Your victimhood is causing you to be offended by micro aggressions and other things that don't exist. Talk about mixed messages. I feel so sorry for you.

I'm not offended by microaggressions. I've not offended by anything.

But i do acknowledge that they exist.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Notice how we have now switched to the truth?
Only a month or so ago, everyone one of you were convinced that CRT was only discussed as a theory in law school. We were all crazy to even think this was being taught in education schools. Now, your thought makers have decided that is no longer a tenable argument. Now the narrative has been changed again but you guys don't even question why, you just follow the marching orders.

It is simply amazing actually.

And yes, it is exhausting but I think you confuse being 'scared' as being honest.

There wasn't a single honest thing in your post, Farb. I never said anything about teaching CRT. I said that children should learn the accurate history of this country.

 

[JRad]

Notice how we have now switched to the truth?
Only a month or so ago, everyone one of you were convinced that CRT was only discussed as a theory in law school. We were all crazy to even think this was being taught in education schools. Now, your thought makers have decided that is no longer a tenable argument. Now the narrative has been changed again but you guys don't even question why, you just follow the marching orders.

It is simply amazing actually.

And yes, it is exhausting but I think you confuse being 'scared' as being honest.

Self fulfilling.

Right wing media couldn't stop talking about it, so now it's being talked about. I'd bet a significant portion of people still wouldn't know what CRT is if it hadn't become Fox's outrage of the week.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Self fulfilling.

Right wing media couldn't stop talking about it, so now it's being talked about. I'd bet a significant portion of people still wouldn't know what CRT is if it hadn't become Fox's outrage of the week.

There was an article a while back that said that CRT was mentioned in mainstream media like 8 times in 2020 and in first 6 months of 2021it was like 3000 and most of that was fox and other right wing

And you’ll never convince me that it wasn’t to deliberately distract and deflect backlash and fallout from Jan 6th

 

[brandon]

Teach the history without shaming the descendants of racist whites or making the POC children victims.

Slavery and segregation are worthy of shame. They're shameful. It's not your personal shame, but it is America's shame. And you are an American.

The problem with shame is that it either forces you to deal with the problem, or continue feeling shame. And since you don't want to deal with the lasting impacts of slavery and segregation (that you continue to admit exist via the butterfly effect), you don't want people to point that out or you're forced to face your shame.

I don't feel personally feel shame for what my ancestors did, even if I know that the atrocities were committed by people of my race, and who may have even been my personal relatives. The reason is because I stand against all that slavery, segregation, and racism were, I recognize the lasting impacts this shameful legacy has left on our country, and I stand up for policies that seek to rectify those lasting impacts.

The reason you feel shame when these topics and their impacts are taught is because until you recognize the current problems created by historical atrocities, and then take steps to correct those problems, you are complicit. And if you're complicit, then you are an oppressor and deserve to feel shame.

Teach the bad history and then give the kids something positive. The fact that racism has gone down markedly and only 53 years elapsed between the Rosa Parks incident and the election of Obama.

Those things are taught every single year in every single classroom. However, the only positives to come from slavery and segregation are the American heroes we gained who stood against those atrocities. That's like asking us to find the positives in the Holocaust. The only positive was that it stopped.

Present a balanced picture of history without the need to embrace the role of the noble victim.

History does not need to be balanced. History needs to be taught as it happened, fully and completely.

Study slavery not from a victimhood perspective, but from a global perspective.

Why? Because it makes you feel better?

American history involves African-American slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow. If the subject is American History, slavery in ancient Greece is irrelevant. If I am an American citizen, I am not dealing with the lasting effects of slavery in ancient Egypt or segregation in South Africa. But I am dealing with the fallout from African-American slavery and segregation in America. One is relevant to America today. Others are not.

Make POC kids see that they are not the only descendants of slaves in the world. For God's sake give them hope!

Is that supposed to make them feel better? Or is it to make you feel better?

Why do you think Jamaicans and Nigerians have better perspective than African Americans?

Perspective on what? Making you feel better?

Nice cliché Brandon.

You ignored the part where I pointed out that it appears your goal is to repeat history and put those uppity blacks back in their place.

 

[brandon]

Yeah, I think someone should have shown up for class or had better adults to educate them outside the classroom but then again, I went to private school so I was educated more better.

You went to private school so you didn't have to be around black people, and in doing so, failed to learn empathy.

 

[Paul]

You went to private school so you didn't have to be around black people, and in doing so, failed to learn empathy.

When looking at the BIG FIVE personality traits left wing people are high on open to experience, agreeableness, and empathy.

Conservatives are low on those traits. The left winger gives free fish away and the conservative tells them to learn how to fish. It is what it is Brandon.

 

[brandon]

When looking at the BIG FIVE personality traits left wing people are high on open to experience, agreeableness, and empathy.

Conservatives are low on those traits. The left winger gives free fish away and the conservative tells them to learn how to fish. It is what it is Brandon.

I assume I’ll be reading about these BIG FIVE personality traits in your next fifty posts.

 

[Farb]

There was an article a while back that said that CRT was mentioned in mainstream media like 8 times in 2020 and in first 6 months of 2021it was like 3000 and most of that was fox and other right wing

And you’ll never convince me that it wasn’t to deliberately distract and deflect backlash and fallout from Jan 6th

You are correct. It was noticed, that is why. I would imagine if you did the same search for 'school board' you would see a huge uptick in mentions too. It is because poeple became aware of the toxic political garbage being taught to the kids in public school.

How is self fulling when it actually is happening, sorry we noticed? Makes no sense.

 

[Paul]

I assume I’ll be reading about these BIG FIVE personality traits in your next fifty posts.

It is best if you read up on this and learn something new Brandon. Get back to me after you do this.

 

[Paul]

Slavery and segregation are worthy of shame. They're shameful. It's not your personal shame, but it is America's shame. And you are an American.

The problem with shame is that it either forces you to deal with the problem, or continue feeling shame. And since you don't want to deal with the lasting impacts of slavery and segregation (that you continue to admit exist via the butterfly effect), you don't want people to point that out or you're forced to face your shame.

I want to thank you for coming out and admitting the whole thing is to shame white kids in school. In other words it is a form of indoctrination. I have no idea who came up with this scheme, but you bought it.

I don't feel personally feel shame for what my ancestors did, even if I know that the atrocities were committed by people of my race, and who may have even been my personal relatives.

I suspect you are a descendant of the Cro-Magnon man and if that is the case you are responsible for the extinction of the Neanderthal man. And if you are Christian you are to be judged severely about the Inquisition. And I pray to God you do not have any German DNA because if you do the holocaust is on you.

The reason is because I stand against all that slavery, segregation, and racism were, I recognize the lasting impacts this shameful legacy has left on our country, and I stand up for policies that seek to rectify those lasting impacts.

Everybody is against slavery Brandon. As for segregation, tell me how people segregate themselves into groups. How does that happen? Where is the mandate to segregate in 2021?

Yes, many POC are behind, but they are gaining. The problem is that those on top are also gaining. Even parity will not happen overnight. Why do people measure success according to who is winning the race? How about measuring success according to where they were 40-50 years ago?

The reason you feel shame when these topics and their impacts are taught is because until you recognize the current problems created by historical atrocities, and then take steps to correct those problems, you are complicit. And if you're complicit, then you are an oppressor and deserve to feel shame.

Which are the steps needed? Black Americans are the only ethnic group in world history that is expecting other ethnic groups to lift them. That is not how it works Brandon.

History does not need to be balanced.

Got it! Thanks for being truthful.
I will finish this post later Brandon.

 

[dtc]

That is fine. But, what I see here is a perennial quest for the role of the noble victim and the idea of telling white people "you guys did me wrong". A person you should not be demonized for whatever the ancestors did.

Quick: Rate how much you agree with each of these items on a scale of 1 (“not me at all”) to 5 (“this is so me”):

• It is important to me that people who hurt me acknowledge that an injustice has been done to me.
• I think I am much more conscientious and moral in my relations with other people compared to their treatment of me.
• When people who are close to me feel hurt by my actions, it is very important for me to clarify that justice is on my side.
• It is very hard for me to stop thinking about the injustice others have done to me.

If you scored high (4 or 5) on all of these items, you may have what psychologists have identified as a “tendency for interpersonal victimhood.”

Unraveling the Mindset of Victimhood

Focusing on grievances can be debilitating; social science points to a better way

www.scientificamerican.com

It is history and should be taught as history. No need to shame the descendants or see victimhood.

The desire for empathy is crucial in that the mere experience of a harmful event is not enough for the emergence of the sense of being a victim. In order to have this sense, there is the need to perceive the harm as undeserved, unjust and immoral, an act that could not be prevented by the victim. The need to obtain empathy and understanding can then emerge.[7]

Individuals harbouring a victim mentality would believe that:[1]

• their lives are a series of challenges directly aimed at them;
• most aspects of life are negative and beyond their control;
• because of the challenges in their lives, they deserve sympathy;

WIKIPEDIA

It could be the gran daughter or the great great great grand daughter. History is history and the class room should not be used as a court to determine who will wear the scarlet capital S letter in the forehead. The only purpose for this is shaming and seeking the role of the noble victim.

History should be taught without demonizing the students in the classroom and without telling the POC kids in the classroom they are victims.

All that sounds remarkably Trumpy and there's a great deal of similarity to both super lefties and the far right and their belief that somehow they're being put upon because they can't teach Jesus on a Dinosaur in public school or even young earth creationism using tax dollars.

 

[Paul]

All that sounds remarkably Trumpy and there's a great deal of similarity to both super lefties and the far right and their belief that somehow they're being put upon because they can't teach Jesus on a Dinosaur in public school or even young earth creationism using tax dollars.

Saying something is Trumpy is not an argument. It is basically trying to demonize an argument by associating it with an unsavory character.