Critical race theory (8 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[Paul]

You're the one who said we "I wish history could be taught in a neutral manner without promoting victimhood on one side and oppressors in the other side."

History is rarely neutral. Nobody should ever try to teach about WWII without mentioning exactly what the Nazis did, for instance. Acting as if we should whitewash history to make it palatable for "all sides" is a ridiculous concept.

And what, pray tell, is the "new twist" that is being taught about slavery in America?

A Christian can recall the history of Romans killing Christians for sport at the Roman coliseum without being judgmental of Romans in 2021.
In 2021 we do not condemned Germans for what their ancestors did.

 

[Paul]

What a weird analogy. You really can't compare the discrimination and racial segragation with a cheating husband! For someone who speaks so highly of private enterprise and the ability to profit from your talents, it really seems very weird that you can't see the economic consequences of the laws that discriminated against african-americans from my parents generation and thereby would also seriously impact those born in mine.

And btw.. If the husband cheats he is lucky if the wife dont divorce HIM !

The analogy was used to describe the drawback of perennial victimhood. I was not trying to compare a scorned wife to slavery.

 

[zztop]

Logically words should have no affect on a person. Key word logically. For example if someone calls me a name, I choose how to respond and react to it. I could choose for it to have no sway over my thoughts and action. But people are not robots. Also racism extends to all areas of life, not just isolated to words. You see laws created to oppress, you see wars, genocides, so many things throughout history. In simple terms all because a certain person or group was different in some way from people with power.

 

[V Chip]

A Christian can recall the history of Romans killing Christians for sport at the Roman coliseum without being judgmental of Romans in 2021.
In 2021 we do not condemned Germans for what their ancestors did.

And again, you're not answering the question.

What is the new twist being taught about slavery in American schools today?

Your posts make it sound like american schools are condemning today's white people for the slavery that existed in the 1800s and before. Is that what you are claiming is the new twist?

 

[Optimus Prime]

And what, pray tell, is the "new twist" that is being taught about slavery in America?

the twist is racism didn’t end the second Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation

 

[Optimus Prime]

I agree!

However, I do not agree with the idea of victimhood. The fight can be carried out from a more noble proud position.

Imagine a husband that was unfaithful to his wife. Rightfully so the wife recriminates her husband. The husband ask for forgiveness, wants to save the marriage, and wants to make things right. However, the scorned wife cannot stop recriminating her husband on a daily basis. The perennial recrimination causes additional stress and eventuall the husband calls it quits.

At some point the scorned behavior needs to change. No one wants to be around anyone that complains 24/7.

it’s more like the husband got caught publicly being unfaithful, has a tearful press conference about how bad and wrong unfaithfulness is and he won’t be unfaithful anymore all the while never actually apologizing to his wife directly

Guy is still a jerk to his wife, still acts openly suspicious AF, and when the wife brings up his openly suspect behavior is basically told ‘why you bringing up old shirt?’ Don’t you remember the press conference?‘

He tries to gaslight the lipstick on his collar and odd credit card charges

the ‘additional stress’ for the husband is caused by the wife who always took it and ignored it before but now isn’t doing either anymore, and getting called out on your shirt is stressful

and the calling out is getting more vocal and public

and speaking of analogies I noticed you never addressed the marble one

what is your solution?

because it seems to be “everything’s fine the way it is, be happy with what you have and shut up about marbles”

 

[Paul]

it’s more like the husband got publicly being unfaithful, has a tearful press conference about how bad and wrong unfaithfulness is and he won’t be unfaithful anymore all the while never actually apologizing to his wife directly

Guy is still a jerk to his wife, still acts openly suspicious AF, and when the wife brings up his openly suspect behavior is basically told ‘why you bringing up old shirt?’ Don’t you remember the press conference?‘

He tries to gaslight the lipstick on his collar and odd credit card charges

the ‘additional stress’ for the husband is caused by the wife who always took it and ignored it before but now isn’t doing either anymore, and getting called out on your shirt is stressful

and the calling out is getting more vocal and public

and speaking of analogies I noticed you never addressed the marble one

what is your solution?

because it seems to be “everything’s fine the way it is, be happy with what you have and shut up about marbles”

A perennial posture of grievance is not the solution. At some point a more rational solution is achieved by leaving emotions behind. Nevertheless, I will be the first to admit emotions are not easily controlled.

The struggle needs a different approach. One that recognizes the strength and pride of the offended group.

 

[Dragon]

A perennial posture of grievance is not the solution. At some point a more rational solution is achieved by leaving emotions behind. Nevertheless, I will be the first to admit emotions are not easily controlled.

The struggle needs a different approach. One that recognizes the strength and pride of the offended group.

You treat the question as if this was ONLY an insulting and denigrating behavior towards those affected. That is not the case.

Many was robbed of the opportunities to succeed which you praise so much in the other thread and both paid less for their labor and denied the education they may otherwise have been qualified to get purely based on race.

 

[Paul]

You treat the question as if this was ONLY an insulting and denigrating behavior towards those affected. That is not the case.

Many was robbed of the opportunities to succeed which you praise so much in the other thread and both paid less for their labor and denied the education they may otherwise have been qualified to get purely based on race.

You are doing it. You rather remain immersed in the status of perennial grievance and victimhood. Like the scorned woman you will never forgive or forget.

That is why I have always been in favor of additional reparations. The reparations that have been done have not done the job.

On the other side there is the concept of depositing all hopes and the work that needs to be done in the hands of the oppressor. I don’t think that is a sound plan. Self liberation is the way to go rather than to wait for the oppressor to act.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I can't believe y'all keep engaging this guy. Go outside and spit in the wind. It's a far more productive use of time.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

A Christian can recall the history of Romans killing Christians for sport at the Roman coliseum without being judgmental of Romans in 2021.
In 2021 we do not condemned Germans for what their ancestors did.

How many Germans still string up Jews and passed laws to oppress them many years after they were freed from the camps?
How many Germans still fly the Nazi flag in their yards, vehicles and still call them selves nazi patriots?
Now how long did the oppression happen in the US after slavery was abolished? It wasn't like, you are free! now you are free, and an equal!
How often do you see the Confederate flag flown so proudly in this country? A lot of times by people who don't even have a family history from Confederate states. Kid rock for example. From Michigan, having a giant confederate flag as a back drop at concerts talking about heritage. lol.
Germans were able to admit their awful things so they could move forward. But in the US, you have so many people who still support and push their hateful ways against minorities.

Also to note, Romans eventually converted to Christianity and it became the official religion.

 

[Paul]

How many Germans still string up Jews and passed laws to oppress them many years after they were freed from the camps?
How many Germans still fly the Nazi flag in their yards, vehicles and still call them selves nazi patriots?
Now how long did the oppression happen in the US after slavery was abolished? It wasn't like, you are free! now you are free, and an equal!
How often do you see the Confederate flag flown so proudly in this country? A lot of times by people who don't even have a family history from Confederate states. Kid rock for example. From Michigan, having a giant confederate flag as a back drop at concerts talking about heritage. lol.
Germans were able to admit their awful things so they could move forward. But in the US, you have so many people who still support and push their hateful ways against minorities.

Also to note, Romans eventually converted to Christianity and it became the official religion.

I have to say your reply was phenomenal! I cannot refute what you write. However, a new paradigm is needed to fight discrimination. I would like it to come from a position of strength.

 

[Sandman]

I can't believe y'all keep engaging this guy. Go outside and spit in the wind. It's a far more productive use of time.

It is pointless. He is not interested in exchanging ideas. Anytime he is asked something and the obvious answer goes against his position, he deflects and tries to bring you down some rabbit trail.

It appears to me that he is cool with white, nationalism racism. Just a necessary evil for his party to be elected. He will bend over backwards to enable them.

He is not cool with anything that points out white, nationalism racism. Anything that does this must be stamped out.

It is pretty clear who he is and what he is about.

 

[coldseat]

That is not what I am saying. Don’t be coy. American kids have been taught about slavery for a very long time. The new twist is different . History needs to be taught as it was without any judgmental melodrama.

Given you didn't receive an education here in the United States, I'll take this opinion as the grain of salt that it should be taken with.

There is a big difference in being taught that there were slaves and being taught what chattel slavery actually was in the United States. Just like there's a difference in being taught that the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments where passed that ended slavery and extended civil right to former slaves, but that that was followed by a strong legal, political and violent reaction in both the north and south to the equality of former slaves (i.e. white supremacy). The legal reaction being upheld by the Supreme Court that allowed for a century of inequality and repression for black people.

The vast majority of American kids have not been taught about slavery and civil right they way they need to be taught. If they had been, we wouldn't be where we are with race relations in this country. A lot more teaching and honest talking is required on this subject in this country.

 

[brandon]

However, a new paradigm is needed to fight discrimination. I would like it to come from a position of strength.

Maybe, like, the state?

 

[Saintamaniac]

the twist is racism didn’t end the second Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation

I submit that it began in earnest in America the moment Lincoln signed the EP. Prior to that, there was no need to be racists toward slaves because they were simply slaves and treated not much differently than a pet. Once the slaves were granted equal status, at least on paper, that was when racism became prominent among the folks who resented their pets being seen as their equals. At least that's how I see it and I could be wrong for which I would admit being wrong with no problem.

 

[Paul]

Given you didn't receive an education here in the United States, I'll take this opinion as the grain of salt that it should be taken with.

There is a big difference in being taught that there were slaves and being taught what chattel slavery actually was in the United States. Just like there's a difference in being taught that the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments where passed that ended slavery and extended civil right to former slaves, but that that was followed by a strong legal, political and violent reaction in both the north and south to the equality of former slaves (i.e. white supremacy). The legal reaction being upheld by the Supreme Court that allowed for a century of inequality and repression for black people.

The vast majority of American kids have not been taught about slavery and civil right they way they need to be taught. If they had been, we wouldn't be where we are with race relations in this country. A lot more teaching and honest talking is required on this subject in this country.

I had some lessons about it. BTW, most (if not all) Latin nations had slavery.

 

[Paul]

The vast majority of American kids have not been taught about slavery and civil right they way they need to be taught. If they had been, we wouldn't be where we are with race relations in this country. A lot more teaching and honest talking is required on this subject in this country.

This is key. The education is sorely needed. However, if done in a confrontational manner there could be a problem. Most people do not like to be told they had crappy ancestors.