Critical race theory (3 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Frankly, I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the Critical Race Theory curriculum. What is it, where does it come from, and is it legitimate? Has anyone here read it and maybe give a quick summary?

If this has been covered in another thread, then I missed it.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Well we already knew this but thanks for admitting it openly.

Nah, but good try.

I mean your line of reasoning (and I use that term very loosely here) leads to the same belief that people who stood up for equality and civil rights actually caused more bigotry from those who didn’t want them to have that, and they shouldn’t have stood up for those ideas.

That is something I’ll oppose you on every single time you suggest it.

This is the guy who called Johnson's passage of the CRA of 1964 "race ID politics" so, ummm, yeah.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

If acknowledging the realities of race relations in this country is 'race identity politics' then I guess I'm in favor of it? I think most everyone can agree that campaigning based on 'you should hate X because they are Y' is wrong but that doesn't stop people from dog-whistling it. And, contrary to Paul's suggestions, the biggest culprit of that recently has been the GOP in waging the culture was as inflamed by Trump. His entire platform is dog-whistling. Everyone knows what "Make America Great Again" means.

The GOP and right-wing commentators make a fortune off of outrage porn suggesting that because the left wants to teach the realities of slavery in school that means they hate white people. Its nonsense. But sadly there is no shortage of people in this country who are so intellectually starved they will lap it up.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

If you talk about racism at all, according to him, its race ID politics. If you ignore it and assimilate, it will go away...lol

 

[Saint by the Bay]

If you talk about racism at all, according to him, its race ID politics. If you ignore it and assimilate, it will go away...lol

..and remember, you assimilate by marrying a white person because, reasons.

 

[Paul]

If acknowledging the realities of race relations in this country is 'race identity politics' then I guess I'm in favor of it? I think most everyone can agree that campaigning based on 'you should hate X because they are Y' is wrong but that doesn't stop people from dog-whistling it. And, contrary to Paul's suggestions, the biggest culprit of that recently has been the GOP in waging the culture was as inflamed by Trump. His entire platform is dog-whistling. Everyone knows what "Make America Great Again" means.

The problem with race identity politics is that it created Trumpism. If the left practices race identity politics then the right will do the same. The end result will be tribalism, Balkanization, and a Civil War. Not a pretty picture.

The GOP and right-wing commentators make a fortune off of outrage porn suggesting that because the left wants to teach the realities of slavery in school that means they hate white people. Its nonsense. But sadly there is no shortage of people in this country who are so intellectually starved they will lap it up.

I agree with you regarding the GOP and Fox News.
In my opinion there is a perennial fetish with recounting slavery in America which translates into perennial victimhood. I wish history could be taught in a neutral manner without promoting victimhood on one side and oppressors in the other side

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I wish history could be taught in a neutral manner without promoting victimhood on one side and oppressors in the other side

Not sure how you separate those concepts from a historical standpoint. Are people today being 'oppressed' in some form or another? That's open for discussion and should not be ignored. The problem is people getting triggered by the discussion.

I mean...




...where do you even begin to have a reasonable discussion with a person like that?

 

[Paul]

Not sure how you separate those concepts from a historical standpoint. Are people today being 'oppressed' in some form or another? That's open for discussion and should not be ignored. The problem is people getting triggered by the discussion.

Good luck with teaching some kids that they are victims and the oppressor is the white kid. That is a recipe for civil war. That indoctrination will not end well.

 

[coldseat]

Good luck with teaching some kids that they are victims and the oppressor is the white kid. That is a recipe for civil war. That indoctrination will not end well.

This is dumb. Stop watching Faux News.

 

[V Chip]

I wish history could be taught in a neutral manner without promoting victimhood on one side and oppressors in the other side

Yeah, there were no oppressors nor victims of slavery.

 

[Paul]

Yeah, there were no oppressors nor victims of slavery.

It is possible to teach history without promoting a culture of victimhood. I would not want my kid to be told he is a victim in school.

Don’t get me wrong, I can see how victimhood can be seen as empowering and a sign of unity however any psychologist knows that victimhood is not a good idea. It promotes hopelessness, depression, anger, low self esteem, and nihilism.

 

[Paul]

This is dumb. Stop watching Faux News.

I got the info from posters in the forum. I never watch Fox.

 

[V Chip]

It is possible to teach history without promoting a culture of victimhood. I would not want my kid to be told he is a victim in school.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

What part of teaching about slavery says anything about your kid or a “culture of victimhood?” Oh wait is it because when you teach that white people enslaved black people it makes the white people feel like they’re being attacked and thus they get their feelings hurt?

 

[Paul]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

What part of teaching about slavery says anything about your kid or a “culture of victimhood?” Oh wait is it because when you teach that white people enslaved black people it makes the white people feel like they’re being attacked and thus they get their feelings hurt?

That is not what I am saying. Don’t be coy. American kids have been taught about slavery for a very long time. The new twist is different . History needs to be taught as it was without any judgmental melodrama.

 

[Dragon]

Things don't go away if you ignore it. You need to deal with it even if it makes you uncomfortable. That includes facts like slavery was once accepted, or like Nazi Germany killed +6 million jews. There are many examples throughout history of oppression or genocides but ignoring the facts are never the solution. Claims of "promoting victimhood" is ludicrous. The fact is that there WERE victims - Victims of enslavements, victims of prejudice and Jim Crow laws and to say that it has no bearing today is wrong.

My grandparents were born at the turn of the 20th century, which was only 35 years after the abolition of slavery. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 which outlaws discrimination was signed after I was born. It may feel like a long time ago but in generations it is a very short time. American minorities born in the same year as me in states which enforced segragation would have had parents who would have been discriminated against and who would be seriously limited in what they were able to achieve. That would also seriously affect the way they could support their children which is MY generation so not just something way back in the past!!

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[Paul]

Things don't go away if you ignore it. You need to deal with it even if it makes you uncomfortable. That includes facts like slavery was once accepted, or like Nazi Germany killed +6 million jews. There are many examples throughout history of oppression or genocides but ignoring the facts are never the solution. Claims of "promoting victimhood" is ludicrous. The fact is that there WERE victims - Victims of enslavements, victims of prejudice and Jim Crow laws and to say that it has no bearing today is wrong.

My grandparents were born at the turn of the 20th century, which was only 35 years after the abolition of slavery. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 which outlaws discrimination was signed after I was born. It may feel like a long time ago but in generations it is a very short time. American minorities born in the same year as me in states which enforced segragation would have had parents who would have been discriminated against and who would be seriously limited in what they were able to achieve. That would also seriously affect the way they could support their children which is MY generation so not just something way back in the past!!

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I agree!

However, I do not agree with the idea of victimhood. The fight can be carried out from a more noble proud position.

Imagine a husband that was unfaithful to his wife. Rightfully so the wife recriminates her husband. The husband ask for forgiveness, wants to save the marriage, and wants to make things right. However, the scorned wife cannot stop recriminating her husband on a daily basis. The perennial recrimination causes additional stress and eventuall the husband calls it quits.

At some point the scorned behavior needs to change. No one wants to be around anyone that complains 24/7.

 

[V Chip]

That is not what I am saying. Don’t be coy. American kids have been taught about slavery for a very long time. The new twist is different . History needs to be taught as it was without any judgmental melodrama.

You're the one who said we "I wish history could be taught in a neutral manner without promoting victimhood on one side and oppressors in the other side."

History is rarely neutral. Nobody should ever try to teach about WWII without mentioning exactly what the Nazis did, for instance. Acting as if we should whitewash history to make it palatable for "all sides" is a ridiculous concept.

And what, pray tell, is the "new twist" that is being taught about slavery in America?

 

[V Chip]

Imagine a husband that was unfaithful to his wife. Rightfully so the wife recriminates her husband.

What counter accusations should she rightfully make?

More importantly, what accusations were made against the wife in the first place?

 

[Dragon]

I agree!

However, I do not agree with the idea of victimhood. The fight can be carried out from a more noble proud position.

Imagine a husband that was unfaithful to his wife. Rightfully so the wife recriminates her husband. The husband ask for forgiveness, wants to save the marriage, and wants to make things right. However, the scorned wife cannot stop recriminating her husband on a daily basis. The perennial recrimination causes additional stress and eventuall the husband calls it quits.

At some point the scorned behavior needs to change. No one wants to be around anyone that complains 24/7.

What a weird analogy. You really can't compare the discrimination and racial segragation with a cheating husband! For someone who speaks so highly of private enterprise and the ability to profit from your talents, it really seems very weird that you can't see the economic consequences of the laws that discriminated against african-americans from my parents generation and thereby would also seriously impact those born in mine.

And btw.. If the husband cheats he is lucky if the wife dont divorce HIM !