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    The moose said:
    Well when was normal for you then?
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    I thought March of 2016 was pretty normal. Wait, when did we impeach Trump for the Ukraine call? That was normal for our new body politic.
     
    brandon said:
    Should we care what happens to France? The UK? Germany? Anyone but ourselves?
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    It may depend on who is doing the taking.

    There are plenty of people in the US who do not think anything Daddy Vladdy does is a threat.
     
    samiam5211 said:
    So you are saying that we should stand by and let Russia take Ukraine.

    Is is safe to say you feel the same way about China taking Taiwan?
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    You would be correct.

    What is the strategic value of Ukraine for the US, I guess is a better question. Because Europe or the russian natural gas pipe line?
     
    Farb said:
    You would be correct.

    What is the strategic value of Ukraine for the US, I guess is a better question. Because Europe or the russian natural gas pipe line?
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    This is simple. You will never in a billion years get another country to nuclear disarm if Russia takes over Ukraine. In fact, if your in a country that borders Russia, or China, a nuclear program has to be your number 1 domestic security goal.

    Every time one of the UN security council members gives you reassurances, your only response should be "Words are wind."

    Keep on building those nukes.
     
    Farb said:
    You would be correct.

    What is the strategic value of Ukraine for the US, I guess is a better question. Because Europe or the russian natural gas pipe line?
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    “What’s in it for us?” isn’t something that should be asked by anyone deserving of US citizenship.
     
    Used to be that people in the US felt a kind of responsibility to help other countries who are threatened by totalitarian regimes. Felt a sort of obligation to be good stewards to the less fortunate. Something like “to whom much is given, much is expected”. But that’s a Christian principle, isn’t it?

    Now, to be practical, if Russia decides to go into Ukraine there won’t be anything we can do to stop it. But we should make Russia pay dearly for the aggression against another nation who did nothing to threaten it. Pull out all the economic pain we can muster. Sanctions that will hurt Putin and his oligarchs personally.
     
    Farb said:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/25/russia-us-tensions-troops-ukraine-00001778

    So, WW3 is about to kick off, exciting stuff!

    What is the consensus on this? Should we send our sons and daughters to Ukraine?
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    I doubt that major war is going to break out. Over the years I've learned to sit still and stay calm.

    My feelings about Ukraine is that Ukraine is part of Russia about the same way Dixie is a part of the US. The way the Falkland Islands are a part of the UK.

    Suppose Florida separated from the US, Russia wouldn't be able to stop us from pulling them back into the union by force. Nor could they have prevented the UK from maintaining their hold on the Falklands by force.

    About all we can do is bang sabers. Maybe keep it from spreading from there. We can reinforce our NATO allies surrounding Ukraine. But Ukraine is not a part of NATO.
     
    Nobody, and somebody please correct me if I’m wrong, in the Democratic Party is advocating that we send troops to Ukraine. That isn’t even part of the conversation.
     
    Yea, the reality is that everyone on both sides knows if Russia decides to invade, there's not a single country coming to their aid with actual troops.

    The best anyone is going to do is give them weapons and wish them luck.

    And everyone also knows Russia isn't going to invade a NATO country because then we have to go to war, and Russia doesn't really want that.

    So we're all basically ceding Ukraine and Russia is just negotiating the economic terms.
     
    brandon said:
    Yea, the reality is that everyone on both sides knows if Russia decides to invade, there's not a single country coming to their aid with actual troops.

    The best anyone is going to do is give them weapons and wish them luck.

    And everyone also knows Russia isn't going to invade a NATO country because then we have to go to war, and Russia doesn't really want that.

    So we're all basically ceding Ukraine and Russia is just negotiating the economic terms.
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    Maybe, but that would result in years of putting down insurgency in Ukraine by Russia.

    Eventually, there would be enough terrible video of Ukrainian freedom fighters being killed that European countries and the US would end up sending in troops anyway.
     
    en.wikipedia.org

    Ukraine - Wikipedia

    en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

    Ukraine has a long history. A long history of not being part of Russia. Like many other areas tribalism has played a large role in its history.
     

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