All things Racist...USA edition (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

I was looking for a place to put this so we could discuss but didn't really find a place that worked so I created this thread so we can all place articles, experiences, videos and examples of racism in the USA.

This is one that happened this week. The lady even called and filed a complaint on the officer. This officer also chose to wear the body cam (apparently, LA doesn't require this yet). This exchange wasn't necessarily racist IMO until she started with the "mexican racist...you will never be white, like you want" garbage. That is when it turned racist IMO

All the murderer and other insults, I think are just a by product of CRT and ACAB rhetoric that is very common on the radical left and sadly is being brought to mainstream in this country.

Another point that I think is worth mentioning is she is a teacher and the sense of entitlement she feels is mind blowing.

https://news.yahoo.com/black-teacher-berates-latino-la-221235341.html

 

[DaveXA]

Do you believe black people are more likely to commit crimes than white people when all other variables (poverty, drugs, enforcement, etc) are constant?

I don't know. I'm not aware of a place where all of those variables are constant and the same between the 2 groups. I'm not sure it's relevant anyway.

 

[bird]

Would you like to post the stats for violent crimes committed by race? Take into account of that 100% of that 13% are not criminals at all but good people, then maybe 5%, 2%, 1% (?) of the 13% are engaged in criminal activity. That is a lot of crime for an extremely small sample size. Probably related to the progressive social ideas to 'help' the black community.

Also, something to think about on a completely unrelated note, do we think the black population would still be 13% of the population if abortions in the black community were not so easily available and fought for? I know, totally different discuss for a completely different topic. I just find it strange that white liberals supposedly 'care about' the black community but also apparently want to make sure they remain a minority group. Something I have been thinking about. I know it will be received with an open mind. LOL










Well, by the responses, I would say this absolutely has everything to do with racism. @samiam5211 are we talking equality or equity?

Well, from the fact that everyone views situations from their own internal belief structures and biases I would say that racism and bigotry is alive and well. As stated previously all racism is bigotry but not all bigotry is racism.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

C'mon guys, it's only a coincidence that the race that was enslaved for a couple hundred years, and then Jim Crow'ed, lynched, and so on for another hundred years, and then deliberately targeted by the war on drugs and Southern strategy, redlining and such, just happens to be the same race that is incarcerated at a greater rate than any other race to this day, is more likely to be poor than other races, and has a deep distrust of the overall system than any other race.

Everyone knows that there is never any hold over or residual effects from past discrimination, and that as soon as racist laws goes off the books, everyone just starts treating people exactly equal, and that poor people (which just coincidentally happens to be over represented by one race), get all the same opportunities as rich people. A racist cop in the 1960's definitely did not teach their kids to be racist, and it's silly for black people to hold a grudge against the same institutions that turned fire hoses against their parents, or lined up white folks to yell at their mother as they tried to go to a desegregated school. After all, don't you remember those sincere apologies all those institutions gave along with restitution for the wrongs they caused?

 

[Saintamaniac]

C'mon guys, it's only a coincidence that the race that was enslaved for a couple hundred years, and then Jim Crow'ed, lynched, and so on for another hundred years, and then deliberately targeted by the war on drugs and Southern strategy, redlining and such, just happens to be the same race that is incarcerated at a greater rate than any other race to this day, is more likely to be poor than other races, and has a deep distrust of the overall system than any other race.

Everyone knows that there is never any hold over or residual effects from past discrimination, and that as soon as racist laws goes off the books, everyone just starts treating people exactly equal, and that poor people (which just coincidentally happens to be over represented by one race), get all the same opportunities as rich people. A racist cop in the 1960's definitely did not teach their kids to be racist, and it's silly for black people to hold a grudge against the same institutions that turned fire hoses against their parents, or lined up white folks to yell at their mother as they tried to go to a desegregated school. After all, don't you remember those sincere apologies all those institutions gave along with restitution for the wrongs they caused?

@Farb knew exactly what he was doing when he asked that question and its exactly why I ignored the post. Thank you for posting this. As I indicated previously and until otherwise demonstrated, I reaffirm my belief and opinion that @Farb has not intention of discussing racism honestly. Maybe when caucasians actually become the minority we'll begin to see those of his ilk willing to discuss racism with some level of honesty.

 

[MT15]

Some white people would rather burn the entire country down than become a minority. That has become depressingly obvious.

 

[bird]

Some white people would rather burn the entire country down than become a minority. That has become depressingly obvious.

I would add that they would burn down the world if they could.

 

[DaveXA]

I would add that they would burn down the world if they could.

Same difference really.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

@Farb knew exactly what he was doing when he asked that question and its exactly why I ignored the post. Thank you for posting this. As I indicated previously and until otherwise demonstrated, I reaffirm my belief and opinion that @Farb has not intention of discussing racism honestly. Maybe when caucasians actually become the minority we'll begin to see those of his ilk willing to discuss racism with some level of honesty.

I generally try not to guess at the motives of people i don't know very well (politicians and internet posters), and sarcasm is not really an effective debate tool for changing minds; however I do find it weird to think that while outright racist laws and policies have gone off the books like 40/50 ish years ago, that means that none of those policies have any effect today, and that bigotry just stops, and there is no carry over. To me that just defies any sort of common sense or understanding of human nature.

We're tribal, we're judgy, we have biases. It has helped us survive the millenia as a species. It's how we're wired. It seems really strange to think that race has no substantial part in how we make snap judgements about people. And it further seems weird that snap judgements about people have no effect on how people act - whether it's a hiring manager, a cop, a teacher, or whatever.

Obviously my perception was shaped by my environment and I grew up in South Louisiana in the 80's. I distinctly remember being in the 3rd grade, and having a black friend, and someone calling my mom to warn her. Like that was really weird, but everyone around me acted like it was normal to make sure that I wouldn't grow up being "influenced" by a black friend. So, that friendship died. And I remember racial tensions, and my white neighbors talking about being careful around the black neighborhoods (and it wasn't even couched as "high crime" neighborhoods, it was "black people are dangerous"). I remember my sister's best friend's parents talking about how terrible it was that the n-words were running New Orleans now.

I'm not trying to say that everyone there was horribly racist. There was a broad range of attitudes. But what I am saying is that 40 years ago, I was actively taught by the world around me that black society as a whole was dangerous and crime ridden - sure there were a few good ones out there, that pulled themselves out, but generally you needed to be careful. And my peers were taught the same. In my peer group there were very, very few outright racists- people who said or consciously thought that black people were bad or anything -- however, it would be more weird to me if we all were able to overcome all the social cues around us at a sub-conscious level than the idea that all of that would have a lasting impact on how we make snap judgements.

And that doesn't even get into people that are still outright racists. I have had conversations within the last year with a couple of different people who outright said most black people are criminals, and that they would never go to a black church for fear of being killed (when I suggested they attend one when they asked why "they" never protest inner city crime). Those racists still have influence on hiring, and are active politically and push for certain anti-crime policies.

The challenge with discussing race is that it immediately makes everyone defensive. After all, we have had a very successful public campaign against racism over the past 40 or so years - through media and politicians. It's rightly viewed as a very bad thing -- so whenever we talk about racism and how it still has an effect today, it immediately makes people defensive. After all we think, "I'm not a racist, I know skin color has no effect on IQ. I have black friends. Etc. What holds people back is culture, or bad parents. I know if a black person grows up in the right environment they have a great chance at success." Which is of course also true. Saying that race is an important factor in how people end up and there are systemic issues that make it less likely that a black person will succeed is NOT mutually exclusive with saying a black person who works hard and studies has an excellent chance of having a successful life.

Anyway, this has become a wall of text with no actual point coming I guess. I just find that this thread has not gone in the direction of making things better, which is unfortunately the case with a lot of topics these days.

 

[MT15]

Thoughtful meandering, UTJ. I didn’t grow up in the Deep South like you did, but I remember hearing about “sundown” laws as a kid, and hearing adults use the “N” word casually. My mother told me about how a black man was expected to step off of the sidewalk onto the street when a white woman passed by. She told me in the context that she was disgusted by the practice. This happened in Georgia in the 1940’s when my dad was stationed in the Army there. I saw KKK in full robe getup handing out fliers on street corners more than once. That would have been in the late 1960’s and not in the South.

There were kids in my high school in the 70’s who were openly racist. They operate local businesses in that small town today and one serves as the local volunteer fire chief. I don’t think for a minute any of that racism went away when they grew older. In fact in one case, my husband had a conversation with one of those guys who still feels that way although he will grudgingly admit he knows he shouldn’t.

Ugly, virulent racism still exists. People act on it. I can’t imagine why a reasonable person would try to say otherwise.

 

[wardorican]

Would you like to post the stats for violent crimes committed by race? Take into account of that 100% of that 13% are not criminals at all but good people, then maybe 5%, 2%, 1% (?) of the 13% are engaged in criminal activity. That is a lot of crime for an extremely small sample size. Probably related to the progressive social ideas to 'help' the black community.

Also, something to think about on a completely unrelated note, do we think the black population would still be 13% of the population if abortions in the black community were not so easily available and fought for? I know, totally different discuss for a completely different topic. I just find it strange that white liberals supposedly 'care about' the black community but also apparently want to make sure they remain a minority group. Something I have been thinking about. I know it will be received with an open mind. LOL










Well, by the responses, I would say this absolutely has everything to do with racism. @samiam5211 are we talking equality or equity?

Abortion and Women of Color: The Bigger Picture

This much is true: In the United States, the abortion rate for black women is almost five times that for white women. Antiabortion activists, including some African-American pastors, have been waging a campaign around this fact, falsely asserting that the disparity is the result of aggressive...

www.guttmacher.org

If you can also have an open mind, read all of this that I linked. I'll just hit on a tiny fraction of it.

It is startling that black women are 5 times more likely to have an abortion than a white woman. And hispanic women are about 2 times as likely.

why this disparity? Well, it usually comes down to unintended pregnancy, in what I linked, those rates are also disproportionate for hispanics and blacks. Is it because black women and hispanics are 'looser' than white women? Meh... It's mostly due to either a lack of access to contraceptives, an inability to afford them, or not having access to better contraceptives, so they use the ones that are less reliable in 'normal use'. Access to health care is a factor as well.

Interesting fact, 17% of women who in their first year of using condoms (for their male partners) had an unintended pregnancy. Well higher than the 'perfect use' of 2%.

To me, it's similar to the crime stats, while White still commit the most violent crimes in the USA, blacks are at about half of that value, despite being 13% of the general population. It's all about a lack of economic opportunity in most minority communities, there aren't a lot of big money investors pouring in money for projects around the projects. A lack of economic opportunity breeds a local 'economy' that uses what they have or can get access too. Drug dealers aren't stupid. It's a way to make quick money. If they were hoarding Toilet Paper before it was cool a year ago, they'd have been selling that. It's why people sell loose cigarettes when a pack is over taxed. There is a need, there is always someone willing to deal to help you fill that need. That's true for all business.

You can't pull yourself up from your own bootstraps if your schools are underfunded due to low local property tax rates, there aren't enough decent jobs in the area, or you can't even get to college (and the deck will be stacked against you, because the school is run down), and just like parents who suck at math, or at least think they do, they teach their kids to suck at math or think it's hard and they don't need it. Well, when your whole school sucks, and it sucked for your parent or parents, then you're probably not going to see the point either.

We are all creatures of our nature and our nuture.

If there was real capital investment in these communities, you'd see a change. it will take a while, but you'd see major changes.

BTW, that's systemic racism. It's from older wrongs, that have left long term damage.

 

[samiam5211]

Well, by the responses, I would say this absolutely has everything to do with racism. @samiam5211 are we talking equality or equity?

Do you believe that the two are significantly different?

Do you think that equality would not result in equity? Do you believe that non white people just aren't as good as white people?

What do you believe causes racial disparity in outcomes?

 

[brandon]

Do you believe that the two are significantly different?

Do you think that equality would not result in equity? Do you believe that non white people just aren't as good as white people?

What do you believe causes racial disparity in outcomes?

More questions that won't get answered.

 

[CoolBrees]

@samiam5211 -

Since he isn’t going to articulate a response to your thought and discussion provoking question, allow me to retort on he/his behalf-

Actually there is a sizable difference between equality and equity.

Equality is providing everyone the same resources, services, etc.

Equity is providing services and resources proportionate to need.

An illustration of this is two people (1 over 6’ tall and 1 under 5’5”) attempting to pick apples from a tall tree. Neither can reach the apples without a ladder.

Equality would be supplying both with a 4’ step ladder. This step ladder is the same for everyone. However, only the tall person benefits from this situation really, as the shorter person is still too short to reach any apples.

Equity would be supplying a 4’ ladder to the tall person and a 6’ ladder to the shorter person. Benefit based on need. Despite the inequality in services provided, both are able to benefit equally from the arrangement. This should be the goal of society, IMO.

Sadly, we are not close to reaching equality in America. Equity, the true goal, isn’t even a conceptual at this point.

 

[wardorican]

More questions that won't get answered.

Probably, but give it some time. He hasn't even been on the site since Saturday morning.

 

[Optimus Prime]

@samiam5211 -

Since he isn’t going to articulate a response to your thought and discussion provoking question, allow me to retort on he/his behalf-

Actually there is a sizable difference between equality and equity.

Equality is providing everyone the same resources, services, etc.

Equity is providing services and resources proportionate to need.

An illustration of this is two people (1 over 6’ tall and 1 under 5’5”) attempting to pick apples from a tall tree. Neither can reach the apples without a ladder.

Equality would be supplying both with a 4’ step ladder. This step ladder is the same for everyone. However, only the tall person benefits from this situation really, as the shorter person is still too short to reach any apples.

Equity would be supplying a 4’ ladder to the tall person and a 6’ ladder to the shorter person. Benefit based on need. Despite the inequality in services provided, both are able to benefit equally from the arrangement. This should be the goal of society, IMO.

Sadly, we are not close to reaching equality in America. Equity, the true goal, isn’t even a conceptual at this point.

 

[DaveXA]

@samiam5211 -

Since he isn’t going to articulate a response to your thought and discussion provoking question, allow me to retort on he/his behalf-

Actually there is a sizable difference between equality and equity.

Equality is providing everyone the same resources, services, etc.

Equity is providing services and resources proportionate to need.

An illustration of this is two people (1 over 6’ tall and 1 under 5’5”) attempting to pick apples from a tall tree. Neither can reach the apples without a ladder.

Equality would be supplying both with a 4’ step ladder. This step ladder is the same for everyone. However, only the tall person benefits from this situation really, as the shorter person is still too short to reach any apples.

Equity would be supplying a 4’ ladder to the tall person and a 6’ ladder to the shorter person. Benefit based on need. Despite the inequality in services provided, both are able to benefit equally from the arrangement. This should be the goal of society, IMO.

Sadly, we are not close to reaching equality in America. Equity, the true goal, isn’t even a conceptual at this point.

Sure, we aren't close to reaching equality, in large party to inequities in the system. That said, I wouldn't say it's not a conceptual at this point. The is affirmative action, programs for hiring more minorities, grants for minority businesses. There has been some effort to address the subject of equity. Certainly, the efforts to that end leave much to be desired, but it's surely been attempted.

I do appreciate the illustration describing the difference between the two though. That's quite helpful. I don't know what needs to happen to achieve true equity, but I'm willing to consider measures that help achieve equity.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

I witnessed a pretty crazy situation the other day.
I was working my daughters Softball tournament (I live in Prairieville) this past weekend. It was late Sunday evening, most of the games were done, there were just 1 championship game going on one field (16U) and a championship game had just finished (14U) on the field across from it. The other 2 age groups had already finished and were gone, So there weren't a lot of people left at the park.
The team that had just won the 14U tournament was about to get their rings. The parents were all cheering and chanting the team name (NOLA).
I was walking from one concession stand to the other. When i got about 20 feet from the big concession stand, A black guy was walking toward the field where his daughters team had just won. An old white gut was walking in the opposite direction to the field were his grand daughter was still playing. The black guy had an unopened umbrella on his shoulder. as they pass each other (i see it all go down because they are right were i was headed, so my line of sight was right to them), the old man all of a sudden starts yelling and acting like he was hit with something and was flailing around, My initial thought was they knew each other and the old was joking and playing. The old man was grabbing his head and leaning over a railing yelling "he hit me with the umbrella". Now, I saw it all take place, they were at least 2 foot apart when it happened, the umbrella never left the guys shoulder. And to have hit him as hard as he was claiming, the guy would have had to use that umbrella like a bat. So of course a couple guys come running up yelling from the other field and ready to fight the black guy. I'm stunned and was trying to tell these guys there was no way he even touched him with that umbrella. One of the refs who was at the concession stand had to tackle the guy and take him to the ground and restrain him. It almost turned into a brawl. Luckily everyone working at the park were right there because we were all starting to shut everything down. We were able to separate everyone and defuse the situation. we had to call the sheriffs dept to sit in the parking lot to ensure there was no issues when they were leaving. I'm not 100% sure it was racial, but the 2 guys didn't know each other from Adam, but i'm not dumb to think it was just random.
That guy never touched him with that umbrella. After it was all over, the old guy just casually walked back to his field, i was like, for someone who just took a "blunt object to the head", he sure seemed fine, didn't even need an ice pack or even need it looked at by the EMT we had out there. Who ever the old guy was, he could have caused some people to seriously get hurt.
A little later on, a lady came up to me and thanked me for telling the truth as to what happened. She said that was her daughters dad (she made it clear that it wasn't her husband) and he may be loud, but he would never attack someone. She didn't seem to happy about having to defend her baby daddy.
Its been a few days and i am still pissed about that situation. My wife and a couple other women during all that kept telling me to leave it alone and stay out of it, but I just couldn't stand there and let people believe he hit that guy with the umbrella when he in fact did not. I have no doubt all of his friends and family didn't want to believe ole dad/grampa was lying and they were ready to fight over it.
Now that i am worked up again, i am about to look up that team on Facebook and leave them a message about the conduct of their players families.

 

[SystemShock]

The first time I saw that cartoon, the first thing that came to mind, that the equality side shows the brown people didn't pay to watch the game, or maybe they were not let in.

The equity side, the question is, who supplies the crates.