All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[samiam5211]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...s-team-rules-compares-self-to-jackie-robinson

n the second part of an exclusive interview with a female swimmer on the University of Pennsylvania’s swimming team, one of the swimmers describes the toxic environment that surrounds the women this year.

Accusations of entitlement, selfishness, and a general disregard for overall performance have plagued the team since Lia Thomas, a biological male, started swimming on their team.

The crux of the swimmers’ complaints is the biological advantage that Lia has over female teammates. The swimmers were promised competition between females, not men who want to be female. Yet, there’s also the matter of an apparently inflated ego.

“She compares herself to Jackie Robinson,” the female swimmer told me. “She said she is like the Jackie Robinson of trans sports.”

Who cares, amarite? Why does this person's feelings and experience count more than the females on the team?

I believe that the trans movement (which i support wholeheartedly) would be best served if we accepted the need to pump the breaks with respect to competitive sports.

It is going to cause a loss of momentum with the public, and transphobic trolls will take advantage of it to argue against the trans movement as a whole.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I believe that the trans movement (which i support wholeheartedly) would be best served if we accepted the need to pump the breaks with respect to competitive sports.

It is going to cause a loss of momentum with the public, and transphobic trolls will take advantage of it to argue against the trans movement as a whole.

Agree. In an attempt to be fair and inclusive they've unwittingly gone too far in this, competitive sports, regard. I suspect they'll pull back. The advantage boys gain during puberty isn't as easily negated as they thought.

Researchers from the Mayo Clinic, Duke University and Marquette University recently studied Thomas’s times from before and after she transitioned. They found her recent times were about 5 percent slower across all distances, according to an article they published. The gender gap between elite college and international swimmers is 10 to 15 percent for shorter distances and 7 to 10 percent for longer ones, they wrote.

“Everybody wants to maximize each individual’s opportunity to participate and be as inclusive as possible,” one of the researchers, Michael Joyner, a physiologist at the Mayo Clinic, said in an interview. “But how do you balance that inclusion at the individual level with the fairness to the entire field? That’s really the split-the-baby question.”
Joyner, who has spent his career studying human performance, notes that elite male and female swimmers start to diverge around ages 11 and 12 as boys hit puberty and testosterone levels begin to spike. He said Thomas’s times might be illustrating that taking suppressants doesn’t negate the hormonal impact of puberty.
“The thing you have to ask yourself is, ‘To what extent are there potential legacy effects of testosterone?’ ” he said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/01/10/lia-thomas-penn-transgender-swimmer/

 

[SystemShock]

Its's not a "mental disorder" I posted a heavily scientific post explaining the science of gender not matching their sexuality and how it can be explained with chromosomes.

The fact that you ignored that SCIENCE and post hateful shirt like calling it a "mental disorder" shows you are being obtuse and are a purposeful hateful bigot.

Can it really be explained with chromosomes, though? For a long time, some scientists have tried to find the "gay gene" and so far they have come up empty (AFAIK). Has a valid correlation between chromosomes/genes and transgenderism been found? May be that science does find the "gay gene" or the "trans gene" in the future, but maybe not. Who knows...

As for calling it a mental disorder, it needs to be pointed out, gender dysphoria is described in the DSM-5 of the American Psychiatric Association. In any case, mental or not mental, gender dysphoria is a disorder nonetheless.

 

[Farb]

I believe that the trans movement (which i support wholeheartedly) would be best served if we accepted the need to pump the breaks with respect to competitive sports.

It is going to cause a loss of momentum with the public, and transphobic trolls will take advantage of it to argue against the trans movement as a whole.

I agree with this, but I will challenge 1 thing. I don't think they can pull back on it. If they pull back in sports, then that will undermine the narrative that 'trans-women are women' when you recognize that there a biological difference between males and females.
The movement has painted itself in a corner, IMO.

 

[SFIDC3]

I believe that the trans movement (which i support wholeheartedly) would be best served if we accepted the need to pump the breaks with respect to competitive sports.

It is going to cause a loss of momentum with the public, and transphobic trolls will take advantage of it to argue against the trans movement as a whole.

I wholeheartedly agree with this....it's just a silly unwinnable position to take in competitive sports...

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Can it really be explained with chromosomes, though? For a long time, some scientists have tried to find the "gay gene" and so far they have come up empty (AFAIK). Has a valid correlation between chromosomes/genes and transgenderism been found? May be that science does find the "gay gene" or the "trans gene" in the future, but maybe not. Who knows...

As for calling it a mental disorder, it needs to be pointed out, gender dysphoria is described in the DSM-5 of the American Psychiatric Association. In any case, mental or not mental, gender dysphoria is a disorder nonetheless.

Not all trans people suffer from gender dysphoria, though. Being trans is not itself a mental disorder. In fact, treatment for gender dysphoria in adults includes taking steps such as hormone therapy and speech/language therapy to bring your physical and mental selves in line with one another.

 

[SystemShock]

Not all trans people suffer from gender dysphoria, though. Being trans is not itself a mental disorder. In fact, treatment for gender dysphoria in adults includes taking steps such as hormone therapy and speech/language therapy to bring your physical and mental selves in line with one another.

I guess we can debate whether it is a mental disorder or a physical disorder, but it is a disorder nonetheless. The treatment/therapy for dysphoria sounds very much like any other transition.

I know the term "mental disorder" carries a certain stigma, but it shouldn't. I doesn't for me. Maybe I should be more aware of the audience and use the word condition instead.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I guess we can debate whether it is a mental disorder or a physical disorder, but it is a disorder nonetheless.

Being trans is not a disorder.

The treatment/therapy for dysphoria sounds very much like any other transition.

It is. For some reason, I couldn't remember the word.

 

[SystemShock]

Being trans is not a disorder.

Ok, what word would you like me to use, that describes the process of a person altering their body to resemble a person of another gender? How about unnatural?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Ok, what word would you like me to use, that describes the process of a person altering their body to resemble a person of another gender? How about unnatural?

What a ridiculously loaded question full of anti-scientific nonsense.

 

[SystemShock]

What a ridiculously loaded question full of anti-scientific nonsense.

Why is it loaded? Which part is the anti-science nonsense?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but to be transgender, it means a person at least has started the process of physically transforming from resembling one gender to resemble another. Is that a true statement?

Further, if someone has started the this transformation process, it means they have started hormone therapy and/or submitted to plastic surgery to better resemble the gender they want to transform into. Is that a true statement?

Do you consider this transformation to be natural?

And please, let me know which words should I use as to not offend you.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Why is it loaded? Which part is the anti-science nonsense?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but to be transgender, it means a person at least has started the process of physically transforming from resembling one gender to resemble another. Is that a true statement?

Further, if someone has started the this transformation process, it means they have started hormone therapy and/or submitted to plastic surgery to better resemble the gender they want to transform into. Is that a true statement?

Do you consider this transformation to be natural?

And please, let me know which words should I use as to not offend you.

You initially said "a person altering their body to resemble a person of another gender", which is incorrect. They are transitioning to physically become their actual gender. Your statement implies that there is a dress-up or costume element to the process which is not true.

From there, you jump to "unnatural", which is just as problematic. Is it unnatural for a person with diabetes to take insulin? How about for someone with anemia to take iron supplements?

 

[SystemShock]

You initially said "a person altering their body to resemble a person of another gender", which is incorrect. They are transitioning to physically become their actual gender. Your statement implies that there is a dress-up or costume element to the process which is not true.

But there is a "dress-up" element to the process. There's no technology or medical process that gives ovaries to a person born with testicles or vise versa. So the best that can be done is to make a person look the part.

Now, I do expect a lecture of what "gender" is... we have so many now. Maybe we should define what a "woman" and a "man" is.

From there, you jump to "unnatural", which is just as problematic. Is it unnatural for a person with diabetes to take insulin? How about for someone with anemia to take iron supplements?

It may be problematic to you, but it is unnatural. Yes, it is unnatural for a person with diabetes to take insulin. Insulin injections don't occur in nature. Same with iron that comes in the form of pills from a lab. Same with breast implants. And removing testicles and sculpting flesh to resemble a vagina, definitely not natural.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

But there is a "dress-up" element to the process. There's no technology or medical process that gives ovaries to a person born with testicles or vise versa. So the best that can be done is to make a person look the part.

Now, I do expect a lecture of what "gender" is... we have so many now. Maybe we should define what a "woman" and a "man" is.

What I mean is that you keep saying things like "look the part" and "resemble a person of another gender", which implies dressing up to be someone they aren't. That's not the case at all.

It may be problematic to you, but it is unnatural. Yes, it is unnatural for a person with diabetes to take insulin. Insulin injections don't occur in nature. Same with iron that comes in the form of pills from a lab. Same with breast implants. And removing testicles and sculpting flesh to resemble a vagina, definitely not natural.

I disagree. Insulin is produced naturally by (most) human bodies. Iron is a natural substance. Humans with all sorts of physical appearances exist naturally. Seeking medical treatment to acquire the things your body should have naturally- but for some reason doesn't- is natural and necessary.

 

[SamAndreas]

Why is it loaded? Which part is the anti-science nonsense?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but to be transgender, it means a person at least has started the process of physically transforming from resembling one gender to resemble another. Is that a true statement?

Further, if someone has started the this transformation process, it means they have started hormone therapy and/or submitted to plastic surgery to better resemble the gender they want to transform into. Is that a true statement?

Do you consider this transformation to be natural?

And please, let me know which words should I use as to not offend you.

Wow! You've gone an served up a hell of a large piece of Moose Turd Pie to everyone, and now you're telling them they can't have a fork, that they've got to eat it with their hands.


:-? It's good though... .


I can cite a reference:

 

[samiam5211]

I agree with this, but I will challenge 1 thing. I don't think they can pull back on it. If they pull back in sports, then that will undermine the narrative that 'trans-women are women' when you recognize that there a biological difference between males and females.
The movement has painted itself in a corner, IMO.

Yea, i suppose if you see it as a game.

 

[MT15]

New movements often go through these types of pain points, until everyone can figure out what will be the best for everyone.

People who use these incidents to argue against the entire movement for trans equality are paradoxically only ensuring that people who want to carve out some sort of equality will get more strident in response.

If only people could just use common sense and not try to further their own agendas, everyone could just relax a bit and work together to figure things out.

 

[SystemShock]

Wow! You've gone an served up a hell of a large piece of Moose Turd Pie to everyone, and now you're telling them they can't have a fork, that they've got to eat it with their hands.


:-? It's good though... .


I can cite a reference:

Instead of just telling me I posted sheet, why don't you tell me why do you think I posted sheet?