All Things LGBTQ+

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Paul]

No, you would show courtesy. That is not the same as compassion. And it shows that you do not respect or value or esteem anyone who is in what you call "fantasy".

I can show plenty of compassion and understanding without drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[Paul]

No. It's not quite clear. That's the running dialogue inside your head, not in the rest of the world.

OK, let's test your hypothesis.
Do you think a trans woman is just like a biological woman?

 

[Paul]

Why the qualifier?

The question should be "Do you believe a trans woman is like a woman?"

When you add "biological" or "genetic" woman it's specifically to get a "no" answer

OK,
Do you believe a trans woman is like a woman?
Yes or no?
Why?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I can show plenty of compassion and understanding without drinking the Kool Aid.

Just not to your own kids...

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Let me ask you:

Do you think a trans woman is the same as a biological woman?

How do you define 'like'? That's not a very accurate or descriptive term.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Let me answer the question you are really asking:

Do I think a trans woman's DNA will register as female?

No I don't

Your turn

Do you think a trans woman can be emotionally/mentally the same as a biological woman?

 

[Paul]

Let me answer the question you are really asking:

Do I think a trans woman's DNA will register as female?

No I don't

Your turn

Do you think a trans woman can be emotionally/mentally the same as a biological woman?

Yes, the emotions are the same.
Just as the emotions of a man and a woman can also be the same.

 

[RobF]

OK,
Do you believe a trans woman is like a woman?
Yes or no?
Why?

I'll answer.

For the overwhelming majority of situations in which I would interact with them, yes. Of course.

Because I'm not generally interacting with people's genitals, or testing their DNA, or performing medical operations on them.

And the thing is, that's the default. That's how we treat people. If someone presents to us as a woman, no normal person says, "Mmm, not sure about that, I'll need a DNA sample, your birth certificate, and drop your pants." We just treat people as they present to us. Why would we do anything else?

 

[insidejob]

I'll answer.

For the overwhelming majority of situations in which I would interact with them, yes. Of course.

Because I'm not generally interacting with people's genitals, or testing their DNA, or performing medical operations on them.

And the thing is, that's the default. That's how we treat people. If someone presents to us as a woman, no normal person says, "Mmm, not sure about that, I'll need a DNA sample, your birth certificate, and drop your pants." We just treat people as they present to us. Why would we do anything else?

That's what I don't understand about all the hand wringing over this. I've known multiple trans women - both pre- and post-op. I never doubted the gender they were presenting themselves as so never had to even think about what pronoun to use. I can see why it'd be tricky or whatever in a school situation where you have someone you've known since pre-K as a boy who ends up becoming a girl around puberty. Mostly because that kid will be singled out and harassed for it regardless of what bathroom they are allowed to use.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Yes, the emotions are the same.
Just as the emotions of a man and a woman can also be the same.

so are you saying that the only difference between a man and a woman is biology?

 

[Paul]

so are you saying that the only difference between a man and a woman is biology?

Yes, XX is not the same as XY. Blame evolution for that.
Men and women are equal in the yang and ying mode.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Yes, XX is not the same as XY. Blame evolution for that.
Men and women are equal in the yang and ying mode.

XX is woman, XY is man... and XXY is forked?

 

[Paul]

XX is woman, XY is man... and XXY is forked?

XXY is still a man, a congenital anomaly. Just as X0 is still a woman, a congenital anomaly. Nature makes errors when manufacturing men and women.

 

[Paul]

I'll answer.

For the overwhelming majority of situations in which I would interact with them, yes. Of course.

Because I'm not generally interacting with people's genitals, or testing their DNA, or performing medical operations on them.

And the thing is, that's the default. That's how we treat people. If someone presents to us as a woman, no normal person says, "Mmm, not sure about that, I'll need a DNA sample, your birth certificate, and drop your pants." We just treat people as they present to us. Why would we do anything else?

I do not disagree. Very well said.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

XXY is still a man, a congenital anomaly. Just as X0 is still a woman, a congenital anomaly. Nature makes errors when manufacturing men and women.

Nature makes errors in some chromosomal pairings. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Paul]

Nature makes errors in some chromosomal pairings. Is that what you are saying?

Yes.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Yes.

This means it's possible for someone hardwired to be female to end up with an erroneous XY set of chromosomes.

 

[Paul]

This means it's possible for someone hardwired to be female to end up with an erroneous XY set of chromosomes.

Yes, nature makes errors. It is likely some wires are crossed in the brain and the person feels she (or he) belongs to the opposite sex. It is an expected deviation form normal. That is why they need compassion and understanding. In addition they need heavy duty psych counseling due to the high rate of suicide attempt. i do not dispute any of that.