All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Farb]

Nope, never said that. I said gender reversals. Full gender reversals. You have a bad habit of misrepresenting what I have said.

Do you consider top surgery a reversal?

 

[MT15]

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
In 2021, about 42,000 children and teens across the United States received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, nearly triple the number in 2017, according to data Komodo compiled for Reuters. Gender dysphoria is defined as the distress caused by a discrepancy between a person’s gender identity and the one assigned to them at birth.

Overall, the analysis found that at least 121,882 children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria from 2017 through 2021. Reuters found similar trends when it requested state-level data on diagnoses among children covered by Medicaid, the public insurance program for lower-income families.

Gender-affirming care for youths takes several forms, from social recognition of a preferred name and pronouns to medical interventions such as hormone therapy and, sometimes, surgery. A small but increasing number of U.S. children diagnosed with gender dysphoria are choosing medical interventions to express their identity and help alleviate their distress.

These medical treatments don’t begin until the onset of puberty, typically around age 10 or 11.

Okay? This doesn’t really prove anything. We talked about when something is publicized, then it gets recognized more readily and the documented cases go up. You need to look at the numbers relative to total population and compare to know.

Oh, did you catch that gender-affirming care could be as simple as “social recognition of a preferred name”?

I think you are buying into the current trans “panic”. JMO.

Do you consider top surgery a reversal?

No, I wouldn’t consider that a full reversal.

 

[Farb]

Nope, never said that. I said gender reversals. Full gender reversals. You have a bad habit of misrepresenting what I have said.

You are ok with minor females having top surgeries?
I think I remember you telling me that those did not happen either but I could be wrong.

 

[Farb]

Okay? This doesn’t really prove anything. We talked about when something is publicized, then it gets recognized more readily and the documented cases go up. You need to look at the numbers relative to total population and compare to know.

Oh, did you catch that gender-affirming care could be as simple as “social recognition of a preferred name”?

I think you are buying into the current trans “panic”. JMO.

No, I wouldn’t consider that a full reversal.

You asked for proof of a spike, did you not?
Did you read the article, it has graphs too that show the uptick in hormone therapy as well as surgeries, so no, we are not talking about pronouns. The article is very left leaning so the data should be easy for you to digest.

 

[MT15]

You asked for proof of a spike, did you not?
Did you read the article, it has graphs too that show the uptick in hormone therapy as well as surgeries, so no, we are not talking about pronouns. The article is very left leaning so the data should be easy for you to digest.

What I am trying to say is that you can show an increase without something crazy happening. When new things are first diagnosed you will see such an uptick. It doesn’t mean any nefarious is going on. I remember when dyslexia was first talked about. If you compare the first year of it being a diagnosis to the 10th year you will see a huge spike. That’s because of increased visibility and because it had a name and was recognized. Not because it didn’t exist before, and not because people were making it up. There could even be a slight number of mis-diagnoses, because it’s new, but they should even out if that’s the case.

People don’t jump right into surgery and hormone therapy for their kids. Even in the case we have loony parents, the medical centers have protocols to follow which involve exhausting other means, counseling and second and third opinions. I don’t know why right wing sources are spewing fear and outrage porn over this, but they are and that has been documented.

 

[MT15]

You are ok with minor females having top surgeries?
I think I remember you telling me that those did not happen either but I could be wrong.

I wasn’t sure - but yes, minor females have top surgeries all the time. I don’t know how much you know about it but breast reductions are not uncommon. Some girls have so much breast tissue that it causes back problems and to make them wait would just be making them go through unnecessary pain.

When the goal is to change appearance for gender treatment it’s essentially the same surgery. They don’t “chop it off”, they make an unobtrusive incision and remove the fatty tissue, and relocate the nipple (I think that’s sometimes necessary, not positive about that). If these adolescents should change their mind as adults (which happens but is very rare) they can have breast implants at that point like millions of people do every year.

But again, people are not just going straight into surgery for their kids. And medical centers wouldn’t support surgery on a minor without a lot of preliminary work being done in the form of counseling and extra medical opinions.

 

[RobF]

Lets stay on topic and not get in the weeds about Kentucky bumkins and bad orange man and a daughter I don't have.

Those points are on topic; you're attempting to present this as a moral issue ("Won't someone please think of the children?!?!"), but points like that show that you're entirely inconsistent on those morals, hence, you are unable to establish this as a genuine moral issue, because you appear to not actually hold those morals.

As for your daughter, if you can bring up an imaginary daughter when objecting to her possibly using the same changing room as a transgender woman, it seems entirely reasonably for someone to ask what you'd tell them about your supporting a rapist.

 

[SaintForLife]

Those points are on topic; you're attempting to present this as a moral issue ("Won't someone please think of the children?!?!"), but points like that show that you're entirely inconsistent on those morals, hence, you are unable to establish this as a genuine moral issue, because you appear to not actually hold those morals.

As for your daughter, if you can bring up an imaginary daughter when objecting to her possibly using the same changing room as a transgender woman, it seems entirely reasonably for someone to ask what you'd tell them about your supporting a rapist.

Biden raped Tara Reade

 

[SaintForLife]

What age do you consider a child?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...are-restrictions-for-minors-grow/70652104007/
Gender-affirming surgeries were most popular with young adults; more than 25,000 people ages 19 to 30 received these procedures. Fewer than 8% of patients − a total of 3,678 − were 12- to 18-year-olds, a group scrutinized by lawmakers pursuing restrictions mainly in conservative states.
https://apnews.com/article/gender-transition-treatment-guidelines-9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Do you consider the WPATH to be liars?

Speaking of WPATH

The WPATH Files: Pseudoscientific Surgical and Hormonal Experiments on Children, Adolescents, and Vulnerable Adults

THE WPATH FILESAdvocates of gender-affirming care say it’s evidence-based.But now, newly released internal files from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) prove that the practice of transgender medicine is neither scientific nor medical.American Medical...

madaboutpolitics.com

The WPATH Files leak showed that what they say privately is totally different than what they say behind closed doors.

 

[SaintForLife]

Medications wear off.

I have no problem with kids taking hormone blockers if their doctor approves them medically - parents don't get a say.

Nobody is doing gender reassignment surgery on children. That is a lie told by you - a liar. It is a stupid argument I won't entertain.

A new Mayo Clinic study of samples from the testes of natal boys taking puberty blockers for gender dysphoria found evidence of "mild-to-severe" testicular atrophy. The authors wrote: "This combined with...abnormalities from the histology data raise a potential concern regarding the complete ’reversibility’" of puberty blockers and the "reproductive fitness" of such children. The authors published their study as a pre-print; it hasn't been peer reviewed.





"Critical questions remain unanswered regarding the nature, extent and permanence of any arrested development of cognitive function associated with puberty blockers. The impact of puberal suppression on measures of neuropsychological function is an urgent research priority."

 

[MT15]

Biden raped Tara Reade

That’s a lie. However Trump has been found liable for raping Carroll in a court of law by a jury of his peers. So spare us your deflections. You support a rapist.

Where is Tara Reade and what is she doing now?

 

[MT15]

A new Mayo Clinic study of samples from the testes of natal boys taking puberty blockers for gender dysphoria found evidence of "mild-to-severe" testicular atrophy. The authors wrote: "This combined with...abnormalities from the histology data raise a potential concern regarding the complete ’reversibility’" of puberty blockers and the "reproductive fitness" of such children. The authors published their study as a pre-print; it hasn't been peer reviewed.





"Critical questions remain unanswered regarding the nature, extent and permanence of any arrested development of cognitive function associated with puberty blockers. The impact of puberal suppression on measures of neuropsychological function is an urgent research priority."

What you are showing here is medical science doing what it is supposed to do. This isn’t some sort of conspiracy, they are discussing new data and will make changes to protocols if warranted. You do see that the one study (1!) isn’t even peer reviewed yet?

This is exactly what bad actors did with the Covid emails and correspondence. That was scientists doing what they are supposed to do and questioning theories. The propaganda merchants take things and twist them around, remove all context and just stir up shirt. And you eagerly lap it up.

You supposedly work in a hospital - you should theoretically know better than to swallow these misrepresentations whole. Yet here we are. With you posting this crap, and us having to respond. It’s ridiculous. How can you even function in life with the idea that everybody is part of some sort of evil conspiracy? Doesn’t it ever dawn on you how stupid it all is?

 

[SaintForLife]

That’s a lie. However Trump has been found liable for raping Carroll in a court of law by a jury of his peers. So spare us your deflections. You support a rapist.

Where is Tara Reade and what is she doing now?

It's (D)ifferent

Joe Biden raped Tara Reade.

 

[MT15]

It's (D)ifferent

Joe Biden raped Tara Reade.

No, he didn’t. But we know Trump raped Carroll. It was proven in a court. And he has to pay her $90 some Million dollars because of it.

 

[MT15]

Honestly SFL, how old are you?

 

[SaintForLife]

No, he didn’t. But we know Trump raped Carroll. It was proven in a court. And he has to pay her $90 some Million dollars because of it.

So you don't believe women if they accuse Democrats of rape. Nice

 

[SaintForLife]

What you are showing here is medical science doing what it is supposed to do. This isn’t some sort of conspiracy, they are discussing new data and will make changes to protocols if warranted. You do see that the one study (1!) isn’t even peer reviewed yet?

This is exactly what bad actors did with the Covid emails and correspondence. That was scientists doing what they are supposed to do and questioning theories. The propaganda merchants take things and twist them around, remove all context and just stir up shirt. And you eagerly lap it up.

You supposedly work in a hospital - you should theoretically know better than to swallow these misrepresentations whole. Yet here we are. With you posting this crap, and us having to respond. It’s ridiculous. How can you even function in life with the idea that everybody is part of some sort of evil conspiracy? Doesn’t it ever dawn on you how stupid it all is?

Why do you constantly parrot establishment narratives no matter what? I'm aware it hasn't been peer reviewed yet, because I posted that. It's from the Mayo Clinic. Will you try to discredit them as a right wing conspiracy?

There is also the British researcher I posted that talked about it.

Also:

We have concluded that there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of puberty suppressing hormones to make the treatment routinely available at this time.”

Children to stop getting puberty blockers at gender identity clinics, says NHS England | Gender | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

There is also the WPATH Files that discredits the treatment of transgenders. You didn't have much to say in that thread besides your normal vague statement. The Washington Post and The Guardian reporter on it. Typical right wing outlets.

 

[SaintForLife]

No, he didn’t. But we know Trump raped Carroll. It was proven in a court. And he has to pay her $90 some Million dollars because of it.

Coming from the person who constantly accuses people they disagree with of lying.....


NEW YORK (AP) — A jury found Donald Trump liable Tuesday for sexually abusing advice columnist E. Jean Carroll in 1996, awarding her $5 million in a judgment that could haunt the former president as he campaigns to regain the White House.

The verdict was split: Jurors rejected Carroll’s claim that she was raped, finding Trump responsible for a lesser degree of sexual abuse. The judgment adds to Trump’s legal woes and offers vindication to Carroll, whose allegations had been mocked and dismissed by Trump for years.

Jury finds Trump liable for sexual abuse, awards accuser $5M

A jury has found Donald Trump liable for sexually abusing advice columnist E. Jean Carroll in 1996. Jurors awarded her $5 million in a judgment that could haunt the former president as he campaigns to regain the White House. The verdict was announced in a federal courtroom in New York City on...

apnews.com