All Things LGBTQ+ (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[MT15]

Montana, the next TN?

 

[MT15]

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Harvard School of Public Health

Banning Breast Implant Surgery in Minors

Cosmetic breast implant surgery in minors can yield hazardous consequences, too often resulting in dangerous physical and emotional effects. Currently, minors can legally undergo cosmetic breast im…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

 

[Lapaz]

Probably neither should be allowed, but breast implant surgery isn’t permanent, so I have less issues with that surgery.

 

[Lapaz]

I support therapy for transgenders to alleviate their issues, but I don’t agree with ignoring the fact that they have grown with different hormones. What is wrong with banning transgender people from female sports? I know Republicans are just using the issue to make political points, but frankly it seems like they are correct. Even if it is infrequent, it generally isn’t fair to biological females. There should either be a special category or transgenders should compete against males. It’s similar to having a special category for handicapped people. We don’t allow able bodied people to compete against them because it is unfair, but they are welcomed to compete against the open male categories. I’m shocked that Democrats voted along straight party lines. I haven’t heard about a poison pill that justifies that.

House Republicans pass transgender sports ban for schools

The bill, which will not pass the Senate, would prohibit schools that receive federal funding from allowing people “whose sex is male” to participate in sports designated for women or girls.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[MT15]

Probably neither should be allowed, but breast implant surgery isn’t permanent, so I have less issues with that surgery.

This is a weird way to look at this issue. If you want to get technical neither is “permanent”, in that it can be surgically reversed. Both have permanent consequences though.

 

[MT15]

I support therapy for transgenders to alleviate their issues, but I don’t agree with ignoring the fact that they have grown with different hormones. What is wrong with banning transgender people from female sports? I know Republicans are just using the issue to make political points, but frankly it seems like they are correct. Even if it is infrequent, it generally isn’t fair to biological females. There should either be a special category or transgenders should compete against males. It’s similar to having a special category for handicapped people. We don’t allow able bodied people to compete against them because it is unfair, but they are welcomed to compete against the open male categories. I’m shocked that Democrats voted along straight party lines. I haven’t heard about a poison pill that justifies that.

House Republicans pass transgender sports ban for schools

The bill, which will not pass the Senate, would prohibit schools that receive federal funding from allowing people “whose sex is male” to participate in sports designated for women or girls.

www.nbcnews.com

Sigh. This has been stated numerous times, but for elite athletic competitions the governing bodies have been developing rules for years, maybe decades. They’re trying to get the balance right using hormone testing. They haven’t always got it right but each sport is different and needs individualized rules about trans participation. It’s also decidedly different if a person didn’t go through puberty before they transitioned, versus going through puberty and then transitioning. These bills just take a sledgehammer to everyone.

What these bills are actually doing is preventing a handful of kids (as in 3-4 per state usually) from playing recreational sports with their classmates. It’s ridiculous, IMO, and trans people have now been demonized to the point where these poor kids are being shunned worse than they already were.

 

[Lapaz]

Sigh. This has been stated numerous times, but for elite athletic competitions the governing bodies have been developing rules for years, maybe decades. They’re trying to get the balance right using hormone testing. They haven’t always got it right but each sport is different and needs individualized rules about trans participation. It’s also decidedly different if a person didn’t go through puberty before they transitioned, versus going through puberty and then transitioning. These bills just take a sledgehammer to everyone.

What these bills are actually doing is preventing a handful of kids (as in 3-4 per state usually) from playing recreational sports with their classmates. It’s ridiculous, IMO, and trans people have now been demonized to the point where these poor kids are being shunned worse than they already were.

Okay, maybe the puberty distinction could be made, but I think that could be difficult. Also, hormones won’t reverse the affect of the hormones before the transition. Again, even if it is infrequent, It isn’t fair to the females. This is undermining the rationale for having separate gender sports.

It's terrible to demonize these kids. We should try to help them, but I see no problem with maintaining a separation in these competitions. I also don't believe in doing anything to prevent puberty, so while prepubescent children could be fine in coed sports, if the sports are segregated due to gender advantages, then they should remain that way.

By the way, I read about the puberty blockers to delay onset of puberty, and if that doesn't result in anything permanent, then that is fine, but I wouldn't be fine with them if they result in permanent changes. Kids are not mature enough to make permanent life altering decisions, and I don't think even parents and experts can be sure. I think there is too much we don't know about the impacts of permanent gender surgery and even therapies that affect development. I don't mind doing things that aren't permanent until kids are nearly adults, but we can't assume that what a child believes and feels as a juvenile will continue into adulthood. I suspect that in the vast majority of cases they are just gay, or at least believe they are gay, and would be happy gay adults. I think we're pretending to know more about these impacts. Therapy to ease feelings is probably what is needed to reduce suicides and depression for juveniles, rather than life altering actions.

 

[Lapaz]

This is a weird way to look at this issue. If you want to get technical neither is “permanent”, in that it can be surgically reversed. Both have permanent consequences though.

Can a penis be permanently surgically appended that performs the same functions? Will that person still have the same feelings and be fertile? Can a transgender male be converted back to a female and still conceive? Do they not touch the uterus in these transitions? I know it is minor to remove a breast implant.

 

[coldseat]

Okay, maybe the puberty distinction could be made, but I think that could be difficult. Also, hormones won’t reverse the affect of the hormones before the transition. Again, even if it is infrequent, It isn’t fair to the females. This is undermining the rationale for having separate gender sports.

It's terrible to demonize these kids. We should try to help them, but I see no problem with maintaining a separation in these competitions. I also don't believe in doing anything to prevent puberty, so while prepubescent children could be fine in coed sports, if the sports are segregated due to gender advantages, then they should remain that way.

By the way, I read about the puberty blockers to delay onset of puberty, and if that doesn't result in anything permanent, then that is fine, but I wouldn't be fine with them if they result in permanent changes. Kids are not mature enough to make permanent life altering decisions, and I don't think even parents and experts can be sure. I think there is too much we don't know about the impacts of permanent gender surgery and even therapies that affect development. I don't mind doing things that aren't permanent until kids are nearly adults, but we can't assume that what a child believes and feels as a juvenile will continue into adulthood. I suspect that in the vast majority of cases they are just gay, or at least believe they are gay, and would be happy gay adults. I think we're pretending to know more about these impacts. Therapy to ease feelings is probably what is needed to reduce suicides and depression for juveniles, rather than life altering actions.

These conversations have gotten to be very exhausting for anybody who's lgbtq. The general feeling among anybody who's lgbtq right now is that we'd just with the straights would stop talking about us. I realize that most people are just catching up or have become aware of trans people/issues in the last year since Republicans have been screaming non-stop about the dangers of the trans people, but these discussions have been going on much longer in the lgbtq community. First, the vast majority of gay kids/teens/people are not going to confuse their sexual orientation or feelings with being trans. Those are two very different things. The majority of trans people do not change their minds, regardless of when they started transitioning. Without harassment from the government and religions, and with the support of loved ones and medical professionals, kids/teen with questions will be able to figure it out and have happy lives. What's not needed is the opinions of everyone trying to control them and decide for them what is best, especially when the ignorance surrounding this topic is so great.

The best thing that could happen for our society would be if people stopped believing that you have to force children into being heterosexual and gender conforming for them to be "happy". Kids/teens will naturally figure that out for themselves in a quicker and healthier fashion than when they're forced to be a peg that fits into only one round hole.

 

[MT15]

Can a penis be permanently surgically appended that performs the same functions? Will that person still have the same feelings and be fertile? Can a transgender male be converted back to a female and still conceive? Do they not touch the uterus in these transitions? I know it is minor to remove a breast implant.

I was talking about your comparison between breast implants and breast reduction surgery. Nothing else.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Okay, maybe the puberty distinction could be made, but I think that could be difficult. Also, hormones won’t reverse the affect of the hormones before the transition. Again, even if it is infrequent, It isn’t fair to the females. This is undermining the rationale for having separate gender sports.

It's terrible to demonize these kids. We should try to help them, but I see no problem with maintaining a separation in these competitions. I also don't believe in doing anything to prevent puberty, so while prepubescent children could be fine in coed sports, if the sports are segregated due to gender advantages, then they should remain that way.

By the way, I read about the puberty blockers to delay onset of puberty, and if that doesn't result in anything permanent, then that is fine, but I wouldn't be fine with them if they result in permanent changes. Kids are not mature enough to make permanent life altering decisions, and I don't think even parents and experts can be sure. I think there is too much we don't know about the impacts of permanent gender surgery and even therapies that affect development. I don't mind doing things that aren't permanent until kids are nearly adults, but we can't assume that what a child believes and feels as a juvenile will continue into adulthood. I suspect that in the vast majority of cases they are just gay, or at least believe they are gay, and would be happy gay adults. I think we're pretending to know more about these impacts. Therapy to ease feelings is probably what is needed to reduce suicides and depression for juveniles, rather than life altering actions.

I've already gone over this, but I'll do it quickly again.

First puberty blockers have been used safely and effectively for over 30 years now. They are used all the time for precocious puberty without controversy, and with trans youth as well now.

There is definitely enough research available to basically tell everyone but the people going through it and their parents to butt out of it. It ain't your business and your "concern" isn't wanted. Gender affirming care is highly correlated to reduction in suicidality, and an increase in happiness and well being. It starts with social transition, then puberty blockers, then hormone therapy and then surgery -- not everyone goes through every step... many stop when they get to a happy place in their transition. The general protocol is to have a licensed therapist work with the child's endocrinologist before any hormones are adminstered, and then continue with therapy all along the way. Hormone dosage starts off small and gradually increased to allow monitoring of the effect on emotions and well-being. Hormone replacement therapy generally doesn't start until around 16, but can start earlier if the child has been persistent for a long time, or if they have been on puberty blockers for a long time and need to go through puberty for health reasons (then they go through puberty as their internally driven gender). In my experience surgery is recommended to wait until after they turn 18 (but wait UTJ, what about those 200 cases where minors got surgery... well yes, in that case my inclination is to think wow, there must have been a compelling reason for the doctors to recommend that).

Transition regret is very low (anywhere between 0.3% and 3% depending on methodology). Around 1-2% detransition, of those about half of them transition again.

So, I'm a little worked up right now since the Florida legislature just passed a law that said the state can confiscate children receiving gender affirming care from their parents...

 

[MT15]

These bills are monstrous. Truly evil.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

This entire trans thing on the part of Republicans has nothing to do with anything but getting Republicans elected.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296493324_The_case_of_bush%27s_reelection_Did_gay_marriage_do_it

The case of bush's reelection: Did gay marriage do it?​

In the case of George W. Bush's reelection, did gay marriage do it? One storyline of the 2004 election, widely repeated in the immediate wake of the contest, went something like this: Bush returned to the White House because he capitalized on many voters' concerns about moral values. Specifically, he rode a groundswell of opposition to same-sex marriage in those eleven states that held referenda on gay marriage simultaneously with the presidential election. Voters who otherwise would have stayed home on Election Day turned out to thwart gay marriage and, while at the polls, also cast a ballot for Bush. This story stands in contrast to the traditional account of a president's coattails, whereby congressional candidates benefit from their association with a popular presidential candidate who is of the same party. It is better labeled a reverse coattail effect. Earlier chapters have shown that the hue and cry about moral values in the immediate wake of the election was overblown. As Sunshine Hillygus shows, for most voters the 2004 contest centered largely on their attitudes about the economy, the war in Iraq, and which candidate they felt was better able to keep the country safe from terrorism. However, as Scott Keeter illustrates, moral values did matter to a well-defined subset of the population: religious traditionalists, particularly evangelical Christians. Further probing reveals that for these voters the term "moral values" often connotes issues like gay marriage. In other words, while gay marriage may not have mattered much to most voters, it mattered a lot to a few voters. And in a close election, that may have been enough to tip the scales in favor of Bush.

 

[MT15]

Montana’s citizens elected a trans person to represent them in the statehouse. The Montana GOP has decided that she will never be allowed to speak on any bill. They give no reason, other than that the speaker has the power to refuse to recognize anyone at any time.

 

[SystemShock]

Perhaps because breast implants are implants (and somewhat ironically part of some gender transition surgeries) whereas transition surgeries often include mutilation?

It is not the equivalency this Dr. alleges it is.

 

[SystemShock]

This is a weird way to look at this issue. If you want to get technical neither is “permanent”, in that it can be surgically reversed.

How do you reverse castration?

 

[MT15]

Perhaps because breast implants are implants (and somewhat ironically part of some gender transition surgeries) whereas transition surgeries often include mutilation?

It is not the equivalency this Dr. alleges it is.

I think she is only talking about breast reductions. An apples to apples comparison. I believe these are the only surgical procedures done on minors and they are rare, as she notes.

Full transition surgeries aren’t performed on minors.