All Things LGBTQ+ (9 Viewers)

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    Farb

    Farb

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    Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

    • The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
    • Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

    I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

    While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.
     
    SystemShock said:
    I love a non-sequitur as much as the next guy, but you are stretching it...
    Click to expand...
    I asked Google to show me images of a non-sequitur being stretched.

    Where's Muhammad???

    wheresmuhammad.gif
     
    SystemShock said:
    I don't know, but that's the point: how do you objectively know the difference (or even if there is a difference) between "I want to be" and "I am" when dealing with 10-12 year olds or younger?
    Click to expand...
    When my son was in elementary school, he made friends with a girl named Annika. Annika was quite the tom boy -- she cut her hair short, did all the "boy stuff" at recess and played sports with the boys, including tackle football. This continued through middle school -- she wasn't friends with the girls, she was just "one of the guys," and when she had her birthdays she would only invite a few of the guys she played sports with, including my son on a few occasions, for sleepover parties. Everyone kind of suspected Annika's coming out was a matter of when not if.

    Meanwhile, when my son was in first grade he also made friends with a boy down the street named Owen. Owen was quiet, always looked like he just rolled out of bed, never combed his hair, was often barefoot and rarely bathed that we could tell. But he was a nice kid and over the years he and my son had countless sleepovers at each others houses and never missed the other's birthday.

    In high school, my son and Owen were part of a small but tight nit group of four or five buddies who liked to get together and play Magic the Gathering on weekends. At some point during their first couple of years in high school Owen came out to his friends, who were all quick to accept and support him. But Owen was still figuring himself out, still trying to figure out why he always felt different, and by their senior year she had begun to transition to Olivia.

    Olivia is still one of my son's closest friends, and the group (now college freshmen, dispersed at different schools) still got together for a sleepovers when they were home for winter and spring break. From everything my son tells me, Olivia is and has been much happier since she transitioned.

    Now if you had told me ten years ago that one of my son's friends would be trans I sure would have suspected it would be the tomboy, not the smelly kid down the street. But when Annika got to high school she outgrew the "boy stuff" and stopped playing sports with the boys and started dating boys. Meanwhile the smelly, unkempt kid looked lovely in her prom gown. Go figure.

    I guess my point is that, when Annika was a pre-teen she "wanted to be" a boy, or "one of the boys," because she wanted to participate in boys stuff. Olivia never "wanted to be" a girl, but at some point realized that was who she is and that much of her personal unhappiness was rooted in not being able to be herself.

    I honestly can't say that I understand it, but I do know that Olivia has been a great friend to my son and I want the best for her and for her to live her best life how she wants to live it.
     
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    Booker said:
    When my son was in elementary school, he made friends with a girl named Annika. Annika was quite the tom boy -- she cut her hair short, did all the "boy stuff" at recess and played sports with the boys, including tackle football. This continued through middle school -- she wasn't friends with the girls, she was just "one of the guys," and when she had her birthdays she would only invite a few of the guys she played sports with, including my son on a few occasions, for sleepover parties. Everyone kind of suspected Annika's coming out was a matter of when not if.

    Meanwhile, when my son was in first grade he also made friends with a boy down the street named Owen. Owen was quiet, always looked like he just rolled out of bed, never combed his hair, was often barefoot and rarely bathed that we could tell. But he was a nice kid and over the years he and my son had countless sleepovers at each others houses and never missed the other's birthday.

    In high school, my son and Owen were part of a small but tight nit group of four or five buddies who liked to get together and play Magic the Gathering on weekends. At some point during their first couple of years in high school Owen came out to his friends, who were all quick to accept and support him. But Owen was still figuring himself out, still trying to figure out why he always felt different, and by their senior year she had begun to transition to Olivia.

    Olivia is still one of my son's closest friends, and the group (now college freshmen, dispersed at different schools) still got together for a sleepovers when they were home for winter and spring break. From everything my son tells me, Olivia is and has been much happier since she transitioned.

    Now if you had told me ten years ago that one of my son's friends would be trans I sure would have suspected it would be the tomboy, not the smelly kid down the street. But when Annika got to high school she outgrew the "boy stuff" and stopped playing sports with the boys and started dating boys. Meanwhile the smelly, unkempt kid looked lovely in her prom gown. Go figure.

    I guess my point is that, when Annika was a pre-teen she "wanted to be" a boy, or "one of the boys," because she wanted to participate in boys stuff. Olivia never "wanted to be" a girl, but at some point realized that was who she is and that much of her personal unhappiness was rooted in not being able to be herself.

    I honestly can't say that I understand it, but I do know that Olivia has been a great friend to my son and I want the best for her and for her to live her best life how she wants to live it.
    Click to expand...

    That's why I ask, how do you know from a 10 year old if they "want to be" or "think they are"?
    And just a reminder for all, it is in reference to the tweet I quoted, originally posted by MT15
     
    SystemShock said:
    I don't know, but that's the point: how do you objectively know the difference (or even if there is a difference) between "I want to be" and "I am" when dealing with 10-12 year olds or younger?
    Click to expand...
    I think there’s a vast difference between wanting or wishing you were a boy and believing you were meant to be a boy and are trapped in the wrong body. I think a doctor or therapist can make that judgement after a certain number of encounters. Along with parental and patient input.

    Honestly back when I was a child almost every girl at some point wished they were a boy as the advantages of being male dawn on them. I remember realizing how many things my brother could do that I couldn’t and being a bit frustrated. But they know they aren’t males.

    I honestly don’t think it’s all that difficult. If there’s any doubt by parents, patient or doctors they don’t transition.
     
    SystemShock said:
    That's why I ask, how do you know from a 10 year old if they "want to be" or "think they are"?
    And just a reminder for all, it is in reference to the tweet I quoted, originally posted by MT15
    Click to expand...
    From what I understand-and I’m no expert- the realization comes at different times for different people. And I don’t think either parents or doctors are pushing kids to transition. Not that it could never happen, because crappy parents and crappy doctors exist. But it’s not some widespread conspiracy like right wingers think.
     
    SystemShock said:
    That's why I ask, how do you know from a 10 year old if they "want to be" or "think they are"?
    And just a reminder for all, it is in reference to the tweet I quoted, originally posted by MT15
    Click to expand...

    The general "test" is someone being "insistent, persistent and consistent" with stating that they are male/female. A child occasionally expressing dissatisfaction with being female does not pass this test. An AMAB wearing a dress, but happy using the boys bathroom does not pass this test. An AFAB saying she thinks she's a boy but isn't sure, doesn't pass this test. Someone saying their x gender for a month isn't passing this test.

    The "test" is administered by a licensed therapist (and for children, needs to be specialized in child psychology), and usually over several months discussing gender identity.

    It isn't just a "oh you say you're a boy -- ok, here's your testosterone", or "you say you're a girl... step this way to get you willy cut off". It's usually many sessions over a period of several months exploring their feelings and so on.
     
    Last edited:
    SystemShock said:
    That's why I ask, how do you know from a 10 year old if they "want to be" or "think they are"?
    And just a reminder for all, it is in reference to the tweet I quoted, originally posted by MT15
    Click to expand...
    That's something that you or I really won't have any insight to, as it's frankly not our business. But parents and therapists do and will. I very seriously doubt that these decisions are being made flippantly, and I expect for many parents it's quite difficult. But the thing is, is not about sports, or boys wanting to play with dolls or girls wanting to play with trucks, it's about something much deeper that a very small percentage of kids are going through.
     
    UncleTrvlingJim said:
    The general "test" is someone being "insistent, persistent and consistent" with stating that they are male/female. A child occasionally expressing dissatisfaction with being female does not pass this test. An AMAB wearing a dress, but happy using the boys bathroom does not pass this test. An AFAB saying she thinks she's a boy but isn't sure, doesn't pass this test. Someone saying their x gender for a month isn't passing this test.

    The "test" is administered by a licensed therapist (and for children, needs to be specialized in child psychology), and usually over several months discussing gender identity.

    It isn't just a "oh you say you're a boy -- ok, here's your testosterone", or "you say you're a girl... step this way to get you willy cut off". It's usually many sessions over a period of several months exploring what there feelings and so on.
    Click to expand...

    So we are not talking about a test, but rather an investigation process, for lack of a better term.
     
    SystemShock said:
    So we are not talking about a test, but rather an investigation process, for lack of a better term.
    Click to expand...

    Maybe? I put it in quotes b/c some people think of the word test as a mechanical or single iteration measurement. I think either works for the general purpose when describing the thing one must do when deciding whether one should continue with gender care. I've used the word "test" to describe a process that one goes through to determine if a thing meets basic criteria in general engineering terms, but I guess it doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion. Maybe an assessment would be a better word?
     
    Last edited:
    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Twitter has quietly removed a policy against the “targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender individuals,” raising concerns that the Elon Musk-owned platform is becoming less safe for marginalized groups.

    Twitter enacted the policy against deadnaming, or using a transgender person’s name before they transitioned, as well as purposefully using the wrong gender for someone as a form of harassment, in 2018.

    On Monday, Twitter also said it will only put warning labels on some tweets that are “potentially” in violation of its rules against hateful conduct. Previously, the tweets were removed.

    It was in this policy update that Twitter appears to have deleted the line against deadnaming from its rules.

    “Twitter’s decision to covertly roll back its longtime policy is the latest example of just how unsafe the company is for users and advertisers alike,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, the president and CEO of the advocacy group GLAAD. “This decision to roll back LGBTQ safety pulls Twitter even more out of step with TikTok, Pinterest, and Meta, which all maintain similar policies to protect their transgender users at a time when anti-transgender rhetoric online is leading to real world discrimination and violence.”……..

    apnews.com

    Twitter removes policy against deadnaming transgender people

    Twitter has quietly removed a policy against the “targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender individuals.” The move is raising concerns that the Elon Musk-owned platform is becoming less safe for marginalized groups. Twitter enacted the policy against deadnaming, or using a transgender...
    apnews.com apnews.com
     

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