All Things LGBTQ+ (6 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[MT15]

So the same party that is having a conniption about imagined “grooming” in elementary schools - is also trying to eliminate the age limit for marriages in TN, as long as it is one man and one “woman”. Emphasis mine to show the author of the bill left out the age requirement purposefully. Sees no need to add it back in, smh.

“Under current Tennessee law, you can get married as young as 17 with parental consent.

The bill’s sponsor, Tom Leatherwood (R-Arlington), said the law being considered would add a new marriage option for Tennesseans. “So, all this bill does is give an alternative form of marriage for those pastors and other individuals who have a conscientious objection to the current pathway to marriage in our law.”

But missing from the bill are age requirements, opening the door for possible child marriages, something the bill’s sponsor acknowledged during a Children and Family Affairs subcommittee meeting. “There is not an explicit age limit,” Leatherwood said.

Representative Mike Stewart (D-Nashville), who sits on the subcommittee the bill passed out of, said he doesn’t understand the motivation. “I don’t think any normal person thinks we shouldn’t have an age requirement for marriage.””

‘A get out of jail free card’: GOP bill would eliminate age requirements for marriages in Tennessee

A proposal making its way through the state legislature would establish a common-law marriage between “one man” and “one woman.” Opponents of the bill (HB 233) say it would eliminate an age r…

www.wkrn.com

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So the same party that is having a conniption about imagined “grooming” in elementary schools - is also trying to eliminate the age limit for marriages in TN, as long as it is one man and one “woman”. Emphasis mine to show the author of the bill left out the age requirement purposefully. Sees no need to add it back in, smh.

“Under current Tennessee law, you can get married as young as 17 with parental consent.

The bill’s sponsor, Tom Leatherwood (R-Arlington), said the law being considered would add a new marriage option for Tennesseans. “So, all this bill does is give an alternative form of marriage for those pastors and other individuals who have a conscientious objection to the current pathway to marriage in our law.”

But missing from the bill are age requirements, opening the door for possible child marriages, something the bill’s sponsor acknowledged during a Children and Family Affairs subcommittee meeting. “There is not an explicit age limit,” Leatherwood said.

Representative Mike Stewart (D-Nashville), who sits on the subcommittee the bill passed out of, said he doesn’t understand the motivation. “I don’t think any normal person thinks we shouldn’t have an age requirement for marriage.””

‘A get out of jail free card’: GOP bill would eliminate age requirements for marriages in Tennessee

A proposal making its way through the state legislature would establish a common-law marriage between “one man” and “one woman.” Opponents of the bill (HB 233) say it would eliminate an age r…

www.wkrn.com

My immediate assumption is that Tom Leatherwood has some disturbing things in his past.

 

[Farb]

Here is the memo in question. It mentions "harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence", and goes on to explicitly state that they will be addressing threats and criminal conduct. Do you think the FBI should be involved in investigating and countering threats and criminal conduct directed at school board members and school officials?

Edit: Forgot the link.

https://www.justice.gov/ag/page/file/1438986/download

Do you consider a parent upset because his daughter was raped at school and the school board tried to cover it up? Is that 'harassment, intimidation and threats of violence'?

 

[Farb]

Gerbils and hippos are both mammals, but they're damn sure not the same thing.

No idea what point you trying to make here, at all.

 

[Farb]

Farb, you seem to be repeatedly going for a 'substitute something different and hope no-one notices' approach here.

So in this post, I said I would support professionals in opposing 'an inappropriate curriculum that includes falsehoods, misrepresentations, and bigotry', and you've substituted 'something not taught' for that. Those are not the same thing. There's no point misrepresenting my own stance back to me, nor to the rest of the forum, when the original post is there and quite clear.

Similarly, in your own posts, you've referred to 'children mutilating their bodies', upon being questioned referred to surgical procedures, and then when questioned again, suddenly substituted in puberty blockers. Again, everyone can see what you've done there.

I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to not notice that you're swapping apples for oranges. So maybe give that one a rest.

So, in your mind, what is the 'falsehoods, misrepresentation and bigotry'?

Men can be women and women can be men does not fall into those categories to elementary school kids?

You have already stated your position in the past about the society being in charge of education for the children because 'society' has to live them too. Now you want to back track about private property rights. Talk about apples and oranges.

No, I don't think I will give it a rest, but thanks.

 

[Farb]

Also, this is, to put it politely, false.

E.g. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...ols-education-racism-slavery-poll/5772418001/

Even when asked specifically about CRT, more parents support it being taught (49%) than oppose it (30%). When asked about the ongoing effects of slavery and racism being taught, it's 63% support to 30% opposing.

You appear to be trying to substitute what Republicans think with what the 'vast majority of parents' think. But again, those aren't the same thing. They're the minority there.

Edit to note that it's similar with gender. Only 25% think 'classroom instruction about gender identity or sexual orientation' should not be allowed in middle school and high school, and that's still only 35% when asked about the same in elementary school (source: https://nationalparentsunion.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/NPU-Topline-March-2022.pdf).

That's not to say that none of those figures is concerning - around a third of people wanting reality to be avoided in schools is something that should be concerning - but it's plain that Farb's 'vast majority' is a minority.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...s-dont-say-gay-law-including-55-of-democrats/

The majority of Americans approve of Florida’s Parental Rights in Education law — misreported by the left-wing media and activists as the “Don’t Say Gay” bill — according to a poll publicized by the Editorial Board at the Wall Street Journal.

That includes 55 percent of Democrats and 53 percent Americans who voted for Joe Biden.

The bill that Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law, which does mention “gay” in its text, prohibits classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity in Florida public schools in kindergarten through third grade.

https://floridianpress.com/2022/03/new-poll-52-of-florida-democrat-voters-back-dont-say-gay-bill/

While the resistance of the Parental Rights in Education bill has largely been concentrated among Liberal Americans across the country, not all of Florida's voting constituents have been taken into account. In a recent poll, it is revealed that 52% of Florida Democrat voters actually support the controversial legislation, now signed into law.

To many Americans' surprise, the majority of Florida Democrats either, "somewhat (20%)," or, "definitely (32%)," oppose teaching Kindergarteners through third graders about sexual orientation. Only 12% were unsure of their thoughts on the bill.

I think you only listed one negative response on the poll, but I think that was intentional. Replacing apples with apples and all that.

 

[MT15]

Do you consider a parent upset because his daughter was raped at school and the school board tried to cover it up? Is that 'harassment, intimidation and threats of violence'?

You should be better than this. No, being upset isn’t those things. Nobody said it was. Trying to hit someone is an attack. Threatening to kill someone is intimidation. A pattern of these things is harassment. You know this - yet you pretend you don’t.

 

[Farb]

No children are having surgery and it’s dishonest to claim they are.

So many falsehoods you’re really upping your game. That is definitely not a compliment.

the false claim about mutilation has been covered, but I would just like to say - I don’t think you’re a stupid person and I don’t believe you got mixed up. I think you are deliberating lying, what I don’t know is why. I don’t expect you to own up to your motivations for lying, just know that you’re not fooling anyone.

Who do you think is on school boards? Are they not elected local people, who have other jobs and live in the community? Yes, of course they are. Interesting, your sudden label of a school board as a “government” school board. That’s not the way anyone describes school boards, which are as local as it gets. It’s a propaganda technique. I wonder where you saw it?

You are telling me, no kids are having gender affirming procedures done in this country, at all? You must be because you said it is dishonest to claim they are.

I don't need to fool anyone. Everyone already knows that boys are boys and girls are girls. My stance is bilogoical fact, your side is the one trying fool people with blantant lies.
I get it. You are so worried about marginalizing anyone that the many have to suffer for the sake a few. That belief is so woven into your thinking that you will support a man beating a woman in a woman's sport just because the man is marginalized for thinking he is a woman. That is the unhealthy end result of identify politics.

The local school boards are corrupt. All of them, no idea, but he vast majority. I guess I learned it by watching the left for the last 6 years.

 

[Farb]

You should be better than this. No, being upset isn’t those things. Nobody said it was. Trying to hit someone is an attack. Threatening to kill someone is intimidation. A pattern of these things is harassment. You know this - yet you pretend you don’t.

You might need to do better using definitions, I do know they change depending on the person you are conversing with, so I will double check:
harassment or domestic terrorism? There is a difference, no?

 

[MT15]

You are telling me, no kids are having gender affirming procedures done in this country, at all? You must be because you said it is dishonest to claim they are.

I don't need to fool anyone. Everyone already knows that boys are boys and girls are girls. My stance is bilogoical fact, your side is the one trying fool people with blantant lies.
I get it. You are so worried about marginalizing anyone that the many have to suffer for the sake a few. That belief is so woven into your thinking that you will support a man beating a woman in a woman's sport just because the man is marginalized for thinking he is a woman. That is the unhealthy end result of identify politics.

The local school boards are corrupt. All of them, no idea, but he vast majority. I guess I learned it by watching the left for the last 6 years.

You said bodily mutilation. That’s what you said - surgery and you described it in detail. So no wiggling out of that can of worms. It was dishonest, unless you’re too dim to know the difference and I don’t think that you are.

And your idea of schools boards is some sort of conspiracy nut fantasy. Go to your local school board meeting. Talk to your local school board members. They’re not corrupt. Is it possible for a few to be corrupt? Sure. And that will be distributed fairly equally on the left and the right.

You are now lying about my stance on athletic competition-I wrote very lengthy posts explaining about the regulations involving trans participation in sports, and how they are measuring testosterone and trying to get things right. For everyone.

All you want to do is shame these people and force them to go away. The laws that are being passed are targeting children and teens who are marginalized at best, and at danger in their communities at worst. Over school yard sports. It’s detestable bigotry.

 

[MT15]

You might need to do better using definitions, I do know they change depending on the person you are conversing with, so I will double check:
harassment or domestic terrorism? There is a difference, no?

Man, those goalposts must be very heavy. I just can’t take you seriously. You have Google and these words have definitions. You use words, and then in your very next post you throw in new words. As if they are the same, all the while claiming I‘m the one misusing the words. Your gaslighting muscle is developing. That isn’t a compliment. Gaslighting is the ploy of very manipulative individuals.

Sigh - harassment would be more of a local thing done to one person by another person. When a political movement - such as the anti-gay and anti-trans movement that is being funded by far right billionaires - uses threats of violence and harassment as a method of intimidation then we are approaching domestic terrorism. There are some cases that have reached that threshold, yes.

 

[RobF]

So, in your mind, what is the 'falsehoods, misrepresentation and bigotry'?

Men can be women and women can be men does not fall into those categories to elementary school kids?

Trans people, and gay people, exist. It's fine for elementary school kids to know that. Because they do.

You have already stated your position in the past about the society being in charge of education for the children because 'society' has to live them too. Now you want to back track about private property rights. Talk about apples and oranges.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Where have I stated that? Where did I say something about 'private property rights', and in what sense am I backtracking on that?

That's not so much apples and oranges as it is suddenly babbling incoherently about dancing pink bananas.

No, I don't think I will give it a rest, but thanks.

Hey, it's your time to waste.

 

[MT15]

Oh, and one more thing. @Farb says he learned that the majority of school boards are corrupt “by watching the left”. Here’s the thing, though: Farb isn’t really watching the ”left” at all. Not one little bit. What he is doing is consuming far right propaganda about “the left”. It’s not a valid way to learn anything of value. Including whether school boards even qualify as “the left”. Lol. It’s crazy, really.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Do you consider a parent upset because his daughter was raped at school and the school board tried to cover it up? Is that 'harassment, intimidation and threats of violence'?

No, and he wasn't arrested for that. He was arrested for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest after the police tried to remove him for making threatening gestures at another parent.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

No idea what point you trying to make here, at all.

Gender affirming care is a giant umbrella, like the classification Mammalia. The gerbil is therapy and the hippo is reassignment surgery. Does that help?

 

[Farb]

such as the anti-gay and anti-trans movement that is being funded by far right billionaires - uses threats of violence and harassment as a method of intimidation then we are approaching domestic terrorism. There are some cases that have reached that threshold, yes.

This sounds like Qanon type stuff. I thought those wack jobs are the only one that believed billionaires are funding radical political theories?

 

[Farb]

Trans people, and gay people, exist. It's fine for elementary school kids to know that. Because they do.


That makes no sense whatsoever. Where have I stated that? Where did I say something about 'private property rights', and in what sense am I backtracking on that?

That's not so much apples and oranges as it is suddenly babbling incoherently about dancing pink bananas.


Hey, it's your time to waste.

They do and there are no laws that exist that stops discussing that. Who said you can't or they don't?

We had a discussion about how parents should not indoctrinate their children because society (the state) will, since a parents kids belong to 'all of us'.

I am all for dancing pink bananas, as long as no discusses that the said bananas might be gay. We are not ready for those level of discussions yet!

 

[Farb]

Oh, and one more thing. @Farb says he learned that the majority of school boards are corrupt “by watching the left”. Here’s the thing, though: Farb isn’t really watching the ”left” at all. Not one little bit. What he is doing is consuming far right propaganda about “the left”. It’s not a valid way to learn anything of value. Including whether school boards even qualify as “the left”. Lol. It’s crazy, really.

Not all school boards are controlled by the left. The one my kid is in is not or he would not be public schools. I am sure a school board in Mississippi is a little more conservative than a school board in California. I am sure results very, but generally, a school district that allows field trips to gay bars, has drag queen story hour or shows, has 'pride' parades at school would be left leaning. Would you agree with that?

Regardless of political ties, I do think, from first hand knowledge, most school boards are corrupt. Now the level of corruption is up for debate, sure.