All Things LGBTQ+ (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[coldseat]

So you take the school at their word, but not the parents. That is normal for those that feel children belong to the state and not to parents.

If the father is a right wing activist, could it not also be true that the school/teacher is left wing activists?

Let's just say I know how these scenarios often play out, both in having to hide/deny my own sexuality for fear of religious persecution/exclusion and from having heard and read many stories from gay/transgender friends who have come out in overly religious families and have had to face to torment of ridicule, fear and bullying that has deeply traumatized them.

Also, primary schools aren't always the most inclusive of places, regardless of the popular framing by right wing activist. That seems to be changing some now, but I'm sure that's in a minority of locations. Schools administrators tend to produce policy out of fear of parental backlash. So they aren't the most progressive of places.

 

[Optimus Prime]

That proves my point exactly

No one on the left said "Fauci Ouchie" or "Hug a Thug", it was right wing talking points to diminish and dismiss what was trying to be accomplished, and once they are out there and take hold in the base's mind no one is really interested in hearing what actually is trying to be accomplished

Yes, Obama did say "You didn't build that" and the right took that and ran with it and completely and intentionally ignored the context of that short phase.

How many of those that were angered and outraged by the statement ever bothered to watch the full clip?

Also woke and CRT

Can't remember his name, but he's been brought up several times here, but he admitted to taking CRT and twisting it to mean what he wanted it to

And 99% of the time, when you hear woke or wokeness, it's in a very mocking or negative way. The right has completely changed the meaning of the term

So, @Farb you can stop with the pearl clutching, how dare you over the "Don't say gay" bill

Edit: Christopher Rufo is the CRT guy

 

[RobF]

Let's just say I know how these scenarios often play out, both in having to hide/deny my own sexuality for fear of religious persecution/exclusion and from having heard and read many stories from gay/transgender friends who have come out in overly religious families and have had to face to torment of ridicule, fear and bullying that has deeply traumatized them.

Also, schools aren't always the most inclusive of places, regardless of the popular framing by right wing activist. That seems to be changing some now, but I'm sure that's in a minority of locations. Schools administrators tend to produce policy out of fear of parental backlash. So they aren't the most progressive of places.

It's notable that Farb, in the post you're quoting, is the one framing children as property. For him, it just appears to be a question of who they belong to ("That is normal for those that feel children belong to the state and not to parents."). The notion that they're individual human beings and not property, and that both parents and other people around them have a responsibility to provide for their care as individuals who are growing in our society, doesn't seem to be in the frame.

Which might explain how anyone could possibly think it would be OK for schools to out children to their parents against their wishes, regardless of the potential for harm. Because someone who regards children as just property, which belongs solely to the parents, might think it's the parents' right to do what they want with their property and not anybody else's business.

That is, however, not a compatible view with claiming to be concerned about children and the potential for abuse to them.

 

[SystemShock]

Just a tangent since it doesn't change the point you're arguing, but "man" was originally a gender neutral term. In the Old English, it referred to any person, and "wer" and "wif" referred to males and females respectively. Hence, ultimately, words like "mankind", and the derivation of the word 'woman' itself (from 'wif' and 'man'). Then "wer" began to fall out of use (although it's still around in words like "werewolf") and "man" replaced it.

Just another interesting example of language evolving.

Point taken.

In the Spanish speaking world, really the Romance language speaking world, the words for man come from the Latin homo, which doesn't make a distinction based on sex. However, the words for women come from mulĭer, which does denote sex. This would be consistent with the idea of men's superiority and the view of women as not being equal to men so prevalent in the past.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

20 of the 32? That is creepy

Explain why you find it creepy.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Is there any kind of consequence to the states other than they may not be able to keep the law?

If the worst thing that could happen to you if you're caught stealing is you have to give the item back then go about your business that isn't a huge deterrent to not do it again
===============================================================

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. Justice Department on Thursday sent a letter to states warning them against passing legislation that would discriminate against transgender youth, including measures that would ban them from seeking gender-affirming treatments.

The warning from the department's top civil rights lawyer comes at a time when Republican-controlled states around the country have been enacting a variety of bills aimed squarely at transgender youth.

"Intentionally erecting discriminatory barriers to prevent individuals from receiving gender-affirming care implicates a number of federal legal guarantees," wrote Assistant Attorney General Kristen Clarke, in a letter to state attorneys general.

"State laws and policies that prevent parents or guardians from following the advice of a healthcare professional regarding what may be medically necessary or otherwise appropriate care for transgender minors may infringe on rights protected by both the Equal Protection and the Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment."

Clarke's letter, which was timed with the International Transgender Day of Visibility, comes at a time when civil rights organizations are challenging a new directive by Texas Governor Greg Abbott targeting transgender youth............

MSN

 

[Optimus Prime]

guess this can go here
=================

Former US president Donald Trump joked with one of his LGBT+ followers they ‘don’t look gay’.

Mr Trump attended a fundraiser on Wednesday for Republican candidate John Gibbs, who is running to be Michigan representative.

While speaking to a seemingly supportive crowd, someone shouted: ‘Gays for Trump!’

The 75-year-old asked: ‘Where’s Gays for Trump?’ before telling the person who put their hand up: ‘You don’t look gay’.

The crowd then erupted into laughter.

‘We did great with the gay population as you know,’ Mr Trump added.

Gays for Trump founder, and North Caroliner politician, Peter R Boykin told Newsweek the person in the crowd ‘probably wouldn’t look gay’ because that ‘look is a stereotype that fits more with leftist LGBTs’.

Mr Boykin added: ‘Not saying some of us might look fabulous and “gay”, otherwise it was a suit and tie event.’

He went on to explain that Gays For Trump is against the ‘leftist agenda that has infiltrated the gay community’.

Mr Boykin accused LGBT+ left-wingers of ‘pushing for the grooming of children in schools, teetering on pro-paedophilia topics’.

He said: ‘This was a stereotype that was going on in the 1950s and I, and all others in our group, think all the rights that gays – on the left and right – worked hard for are in danger of being stripped away because of these child-endangering leftist agenda policies.’.........

MSN

 

[Optimus Prime]

Most parents support teaching about racism and inequality too according to this poll
=======================================================

Majorities of parents support classroom instruction about gender identity or sexual orientation in K-12 public schools, but only about a third say it should be encouraged, according to a new poll shared first with Insider.

Parents of younger children were more resistant to such instruction, with 35% opposing it in elementary schools compared to 25% in middle and high schools, the National Parents Union survey of 1,000 parents of K-12 public school students found. Nearly a third said it should be "allowed, but not encouraged" in middle and high schools compared to 27% in elementary school.

The opposition from more than a third of parents with young children "tells me that there hasn't been enough communication with parents so that they trust schools to be able to engage in this conversation, that there's a lot of fear about it, there are a lot of cultural issues around it, and that there needs to be a further discussion around what this curriculum is, how it's introduced, at what ages is introduced," Keri Rodrigues, National Parents Union co-founder and president, told Insider..........

MSN

 

[Farb]

Also woke and CRT

Can't remember his name, but he's been brought up several times here, but he admitted to taking CRT and twisting it to mean what he wanted it to

And 99% of the time, when you hear woke or wokeness, it's in a very mocking or negative way. The right has completely changed the meaning of the term

So, @Farb you can stop with the pearl clutching, how dare you over the "Don't say gay" bill

Edit: Christopher Rufo is the CRT guy

How about we call it by the real name of 'parental rights bill'. That is more truthful in wat the bill actually says.

 

[Farb]

Explain why you find it creepy.

over 60% of this teachers elementary kids came out as LGTB? I wonder how that tracks in todays government schools compared to just 5 years ago? I would be willing to bet that there is a strong correlation between pushing the LBTB 'not so secret' agenda on elementary kids and those numbers. Unless the teacher is lying in order to virtue signal on how 'supportive' she is for 'her kids'.

 

[Farb]

It's notable that Farb, in the post you're quoting, is the one framing children as property. For him, it just appears to be a question of who they belong to ("That is normal for those that feel children belong to the state and not to parents."). The notion that they're individual human beings and not property, and that both parents and other people around them have a responsibility to provide for their care as individuals who are growing in our society, doesn't seem to be in the frame.

Which might explain how anyone could possibly think it would be OK for schools to out children to their parents against their wishes, regardless of the potential for harm. Because someone who regards children as just property, which belongs solely to the parents, might think it's the parents' right to do what they want with their property and not anybody else's business.

That is, however, not a compatible view with claiming to be concerned about children and the potential for abuse to them.

We have had this discussion. You have stated that you believe kids belong to the society, correct?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Most parents support teaching about racism and inequality too according to this poll
=======================================================

Majorities of parents support classroom instruction about gender identity or sexual orientation in K-12 public schools, but only about a third say it should be encouraged, according to a new poll shared first with Insider.

Parents of younger children were more resistant to such instruction, with 35% opposing it in elementary schools compared to 25% in middle and high schools, the National Parents Union survey of 1,000 parents of K-12 public school students found. Nearly a third said it should be "allowed, but not encouraged" in middle and high schools compared to 27% in elementary school.

The opposition from more than a third of parents with young children "tells me that there hasn't been enough communication with parents so that they trust schools to be able to engage in this conversation, that there's a lot of fear about it, there are a lot of cultural issues around it, and that there needs to be a further discussion around what this curriculum is, how it's introduced, at what ages is introduced," Keri Rodrigues, National Parents Union co-founder and president, told Insider..........

MSN

How about we call it by the real name of 'parental rights bill'. That is more truthful in wat the bill actually says.

What about the parental rights of the majority of parents who are okay with it?

 

[RobF]

We have had this discussion. You have stated that you believe kids belong to the society, correct?

Not in the sense of being property, no, in the sense of being part of:

As for children, they're not property, and they should belong to the society they're part of. And I think 'belong' is being misinterpreted here, which is fair enough, it can be ambiguous. But it should be understood in the sense of belonging. Children should feel like they belong here. Feeling like they don't belong, that is being alienated, is not considered to be a good thing with good outcomes.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

over 60% of this teachers elementary kids came out as LGTB? I wonder how that tracks in todays government schools compared to just 5 years ago? I would be willing to bet that there is a strong correlation between pushing the LBTB 'not so secret' agenda on elementary kids and those numbers. Unless the teacher is lying in order to virtue signal on how 'supportive' she is for 'her kids'.

So you find it creepy because you have an unfounded theory?

 

[Optimus Prime]

teaching 2nd graders about pregnancy? Without their parents permission? Burn her at the stake!!!
==========================================
When North Carolina teacher Nancy Bullard was preparing for maternity leave, she wanted to make sure her students were part of the process.

At the start of the 2021-2022 school year, the K-5 science teacher in Charlotte announced her pregnancy to her students, letting them know she would be gone for three months after Thanksgiving.

"I didn’t want them to get caught off guard when I stopped coming to school," Bullard, 32, told TODAY Parents, adding her roster of students rotates through her science lab weekly. "Plus, I wanted to reassure them that my leave was temporary.....

Bullard's students seem to be enamored with their teacher's new son — but they had questions.

Right away, one student wanted to know if baby Sam ever cried. Another asked if Bullard was teaching baby Sam how to walk.

"Is it difficult to have a baby?" one student asked.

"Yeah, yeah it is," Bullard responded. "It's pretty tough."

Another student wanted to know, "When he goes to sleep do you have to sleep with him or does he sleep with his dad?"

"Nope, he sleeps all by himself in his crib the whole night!" Bullard responded, clapping her hands excitedly. "Round of applause for baby Sam!"

While clapping, one student shouted, "That baby is not afraid!"

Added another, "I had to sleep with my mom until I was one year old!"

But the biggest question for Bullard was yet to come.

"Where do babies come from?" one student asked.

Without hesitation, Bullard pointed to her mid-section and replied, "They come from an organ called your uterus."

Bullard told TODAY a lesson earlier in the year on organ functions helped her students, who range in age from 5 to 11, understand.........

MSN

 

[Optimus Prime]

DeSantis & Disney about to go to war over the Don't Say Gay bill
=========================================

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday signaled support for stripping Disney of its 55-year-old special status that allows the entertainment company to operate as an independent government around its Orlando-area theme park.

It's the latest fallout in the feud between DeSantis, a Republican widely seen as a potential 2024 presidential contender, and Disney, Florida's largest private employer, over a measure that bans schools from teaching young children about sexual orientation or gender identity.

After DeSantis signed the bill into law earlier Monday, the Walt Disney Company wrote in a statement that its "goal" was to get the law repealed or defeated in the courts.

DeSantis previously said Disney "crossed the line" with that statement. On Thursday, DeSantis went further, suggesting Disney's "special privileges" could be lifted.

"Disney has alienated a lot of people now," DeSantis said at a West Palm Beach press conference. "And so the political influence they're used to wielding, I think has dissipated. And so the question is, why would you want to have special privileges in the law at all? And I don't think that that we should."

DeSantis' remarks follow a revelation that some Republican state lawmakers are considering repealing a 1967 state law that established the Reedy Creek Improvement District, giving Disney the power to establish its own government in central Florida.

"Yesterday was the 2nd meeting in a week [with] fellow legislators to discuss a repeal of the 1967 Reedy Creek Improvement Act, which allows Disney to act as its own government," state Rep. Spencer Roach, a Republican, wrote Wednesday on Twitter. "If Disney wants to embrace woke ideology, it seems fitting that they should be regulated by Orange County."............

MSN

 

[coldseat]

DeSantis & Disney about to go to war over the Don't Say Gay bill
=========================================

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday signaled support for stripping Disney of its 55-year-old special status that allows the entertainment company to operate as an independent government around its Orlando-area theme park.

It's the latest fallout in the feud between DeSantis, a Republican widely seen as a potential 2024 presidential contender, and Disney, Florida's largest private employer, over a measure that bans schools from teaching young children about sexual orientation or gender identity.

After DeSantis signed the bill into law earlier Monday, the Walt Disney Company wrote in a statement that its "goal" was to get the law repealed or defeated in the courts.

DeSantis previously said Disney "crossed the line" with that statement. On Thursday, DeSantis went further, suggesting Disney's "special privileges" could be lifted.

"Disney has alienated a lot of people now," DeSantis said at a West Palm Beach press conference. "And so the political influence they're used to wielding, I think has dissipated. And so the question is, why would you want to have special privileges in the law at all? And I don't think that that we should."

DeSantis' remarks follow a revelation that some Republican state lawmakers are considering repealing a 1967 state law that established the Reedy Creek Improvement District, giving Disney the power to establish its own government in central Florida.

"Yesterday was the 2nd meeting in a week [with] fellow legislators to discuss a repeal of the 1967 Reedy Creek Improvement Act, which allows Disney to act as its own government," state Rep. Spencer Roach, a Republican, wrote Wednesday on Twitter. "If Disney wants to embrace woke ideology, it seems fitting that they should be regulated by Orange County."............

MSN

I think Ron DeSantis is becoming even more dangerous than Donald Trump. He's full tilt authoritarian willing to use the full power of the state to silence any and all political dissent.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I think Ron DeSantis is becoming even more dangerous than Donald Trump. He's full tilt authoritarian willing to use the full power of the state to silence any and all political dissent.

I'm actually curious how a Trump/ DeSantis primary would go