All Things LGBTQ+ (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Farb]

Four year olds are generally taught about reality in a form appropriate for four year olds.

What you're doing is the equivalent of questioning why young children are being taught about maths on the grounds that they have no need to know about the modularity theorem. That's not the maths they're being taught. They're being taught the appropriate maths.

Just going, "But gender theory!" over and over again with vague references to "creepy adults" and "pedophiles" is inane. You can do it all you like, but it's not going to go anywhere, and it only speaks to you and your 'understanding' of the subject, not to the subject itself.

You think it is right for teachers to have 'secret meeting' with kids to discuss their sexuality, what bathroom they want to use, what other name they want to use for attendance? Remember, this is kept from the parents?

Yeah, it is creepy and to be honest, the amount of people who think it is perfectly fine is wild to me. I will admit, that most just assume the other side of this position because I, Fard the Bigoted, holds the other position and you all feel the need to argue with simply because it is me. At least, that is what I really hope and most can actually see that this is major problem with our society. It has nothing to do with gay people or trans people as most are good people that have a sense of right and wrong. The alt-left however....

 

[Farb]

And therein lies America's problem. Rather than maintain some form of equilibrium, there are some who simply retreat to the other extreme end of the spectrum. As I mentioned before, you are as much a part of the problem as the overly woke.

Excessively religious? Anyone who wants to use their personal religious beliefs in making policy. I'd hold you out as an example. Also you'll find plenty at any given Trump rally. Anyone who has blurred the lines between public policy and theocratic/dogmatic teachings. Then you are left with some hybrid philosophy that, in your mind, is unassailable because it is basically divine will.

I don't think my religious beliefs, more than what was already put in the constitution should be policy. Some sure. All, nope. I have stated many times that we live in a constitution republic, so any policy will need to be voted on and my religious views are not shared by the whole and I am fine with that. Do I wish they were, absolutely, the world would be a much much better place IMO. I don't think that is a religious view in so much as everyone thinks their views are the most sound.
Most of my political beliefs have no basis in my religious view. Voting for example.

I know it is always easier to have someone fit into a box so labeling is easier to allow someone to dismiss any view, but honestly, if people think I am a religious wack job over creeps discussing sexuality to a 7 year old in a 'confidential' public school setting, sign me up for the Westborough Baptist newsletter.

 

[MT15]

Definitely excessive wokeness.
I left rational thought about the time society told me that men can have menstrual cramps and babies.

Government plot? No. Our government is too stupid to do that. What they are is beholden to those who give them money and the teachers union gives a lot of money to those politicians.

This is wide spread, most teachers are good and see it, but are afraid to say anything because of what they will be called and would probably be fired.

Can you give me definition of excessively religious?

Most of this is bull crap. Just so you know.

 

[MT15]

You think it is right for teachers to have 'secret meeting' with kids to discuss their sexuality, what bathroom they want to use, what other name they want to use for attendance? Remember, this is kept from the parents?

Yeah, it is creepy and to be honest, the amount of people who think it is perfectly fine is wild to me. I will admit, that most just assume the other side of this position because I, Fard the Bigoted, holds the other position and you all feel the need to argue with simply because it is me. At least, that is what I really hope and most can actually see that this is major problem with our society. It has nothing to do with gay people or trans people as most are good people that have a sense of right and wrong. The alt-left however....

What you have just done is read one side of the story and swallow it whole without even considering that there might be more to the story. What if, just as a possibility, the parents are abusive? Can a school counselor then do their job in talking to a student without the parents in attendance? Schools talk to kids everyday without parents in attendance. Sometimes sexual things come up. Sometimes kids beg the school not to tell their parents what they have said because they just might get punished either physically or emotionally for it. We don’t know nearly enough about this story to be taking sides and child abuse is fairly common, whether you want to admit it or not.

I think it’s shameful that the sources you read are willing to take these stories and politicize them. I think you are either extremely gullible or fine with using these kids for political fodder.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Maybe, but why would I need a creepy adult discussing my sexuality with me at the age of 9?

"A child in my class came out to me" is nowhere near the same thing as "a creepy adult discussing my sexuality with me at the age of 9," no matter how much you want it to be.

 

[MT15]

Wait, are you saying I was actively groomed by my teachers in government schools?

No, oh comprehensionally challenged one, I’m saying it’s a lie that you were lucky you weren’t.

 

[coldseat]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory...pulated-child-change-gender-identity-82405978

One of Konen’s chief complaints was that she was kept in the dark by the school about her daughter’s participation in the club, literature teachers provided, and a “gender support plan” created by administrators. She said her daughter was even told how to make a binder to keep her breasts from developing.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/florida-father-daughter-suicide-school-counseling-gender-identity

"The counselor had secret meetings with our daughter about gender. She was groomed to something that she’s not, and she was encouraged," Perez told Laura Ingraham, adding his daughter is home with the family.

Perez said the counselor precipitated a pattern of bullying by calling his daughter by a different name and pronouns in front of other students. He added that the school has accused him of lying and has taken an "arrogant attitude" in their correspondence with him and the public.

"No one is prepared to deal with her other than us, the parents—not the school. The school messed it up," said Perez.

Why do teachers feel the need to do this? To make themselves feel like an 'ally' and to virtue signal on-line to others in their creepy group on how progressive and 'affirming' they are. "Look at me, look how caring and progressive I am!".

They are not qualified as councilors or phycologist? Defund the police sure, also defund the public school system.

I think the father is lying and a right wing activist. I think the 12-year old was trying to come out as trans and was seeking help because they knew their father is a rightwing nut. If the child did attempt suicide, that wouldn't be a surprise being raised in that environment given what they were dealing with.

"The district has performed a thorough and complete investigation into this matter as it was presented to us and has determined that the allegations made by this out-of-state organization are completely false, fabricated, and appear to be intended solely for the purpose of inciting the public," read the statement from Clay County District Schools.

When pressed further, the school district said they remained firm that the actions by school officials "did not happen in the manner in which they are portrayed."

 

[brandon]

Can you give me definition of excessively religious?

bin Laden comes to mind.

 

[RobF]

You think it is right for teachers to have 'secret meeting' with kids to discuss their sexuality, what bathroom they want to use, what other name they want to use for attendance? Remember, this is kept from the parents?

I replied to your comment about four year olds. I think the fact that you can't reply to my response about what four year olds are being taught without having to immediately conflate it with your other posts about other children speaks volumes. You're demonstrating you can't focus on any particular aspect of your argument, because no aspect of your argument can stand up to any reasonable scrutiny.

That said, as far as your links go, if you'd actually read the articles you'd posted, you'd already know that your representation of them is wrong. For example, your abcnews link explicitly quotes the parent as having given permission for a boy's name to be used for attendance purposes, following a meeting with them. Even if you take the parent's account as not in itself misleading, by their own account, they were involved and that was not kept from them.

The article also states that:

Under state and federal law, however, students have privacy rights that extend to sexual orientation and gender identity, according to the American Civil Liberties Union. Only in limited circumstances can a school notify a parent of their child’s sexual identity against their wishes.​

​

“Outside of school, these students may similarly face potential hostility at home because of who they are,” said attorney Peter Renn of Lambda Legal. “For example, involuntarily outing a student as LGBTQ to their parents can very well lead to them getting kicked out of the home in some circumstances.”​

​

So, if you'd actually read it, you would have some understanding of not only what the policies are, but why they are too.

Or you can carry on believing every half-baked claim you read, ignoring anything that conflicts with them, and posting easily refuted nonsense here. Not sure why you'd want to do that though. Have you considered taking up a hobby?

 

[MT15]

Rob, this IS his hobby, lol.

 

[SystemShock]

bin Laden comes to mind.

... or the Pope... or Billy Graham... or Jerry Falwell...

 

[SystemShock]

And therein lies America's problem. Rather than maintain some form of equilibrium, there are some who simply retreat to the other extreme end of the spectrum. As I mentioned before, you are as much a part of the problem as the overly woke.

I agree with the principle of your statement; however, in the particular statement @Farb made, as crass as it may sound to some, there is something to be said about the biology of the human species: the male of the species does not have menstrual cramps or babies. And that has nothing to do with gender (assigned at birth or otherwise), or how "masculine" or "feminine" the individual is, or how the individual feels about themselves. It is simply the individual person's body having testicles or ovaries.

Language does evolve, and I am 99.8% for inclusivity (I figured people know well my stance on women's sports) , but it has to be taken into consideration that the meaning of the word "man" is based on specific natural physical traits since forever, yet is being taken and its meaning changed to "how one feels", and being replaced with the word cisgender, which BTW - has the word gender in it, which we are told over and over again has nothing to do with physical traits or sexuality - all while the physical conditions the word "man" covers have not changed, and will likely never change.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I agree with the principle of your statement; however, in the particular statement @Farb made, as crass as it may sound to some, there is something to be said about the biology of the human species: the male of the species does not have menstrual cramps or babies. And that has nothing to do with gender (assigned at birth or otherwise), or how "masculine" or "feminine" the individual is, or how the individual feels about themselves. It is simply the individual person's body having testicles or ovaries.

Language does evolve, and I am 99.8% for inclusivity (I figured people know well my stance on women's sports) , but it has to be taken into consideration that the meaning of the word "man" is based on specific natural physical traits since forever, yet is being taken and its meaning changed to "how one feels", and being replaced with the word cisgender, which BTW - has the word gender in it, which we are told over and over again has nothing to do with physical traits or sexuality - all while the physical conditions the word "man" covers have not changed, and will likely never change.

On this specific point, I don't disagree. I was talking in the general sense that here you have an example of people on the left taking a relatively crazy position. Unfortunately, many people in this country respond to these crazy positions by retreating to their own echo chambers on the opposite side of the spectrum and thinking these crazy people on the left are so representative of the country as a whole that politics needs to become a battlefield. The same is true from the opposite perspective. Thus, we are left with scorched earth.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I don't think my religious beliefs, more than what was already put in the constitution should be policy. Some sure. All, nope. I have stated many times that we live in a constitution republic, so any policy will need to be voted on and my religious views are not shared by the whole and I am fine with that. Do I wish they were, absolutely, the world would be a much much better place IMO. I don't think that is a religious view in so much as everyone thinks their views are the most sound.
Most of my political beliefs have no basis in my religious view. Voting for example.

I know it is always easier to have someone fit into a box so labeling is easier to allow someone to dismiss any view, but honestly, if people think I am a religious wack job over creeps discussing sexuality to a 7 year old in a 'confidential' public school setting, sign me up for the Westborough Baptist newsletter.

Fitting you into a box isn't a laborious task. Whatever your beliefs and experiences have been it has forged you into the culture warrior we see endlessly arguing social issues on this forum.

 

[RobF]

Language does evolve, and I am 99.8% for inclusivity (I figured people know well my stance on women's sports) , but it has to be taken into consideration that the meaning of the word "man" is based on specific natural physical traits since forever, yet is being taken and its meaning changed to "how one feels", and being replaced with the word cisgender, which BTW - has the word gender in it, which we are told over and over again has nothing to do with physical traits or sexuality - all while the physical conditions the word "man" covers have not changed, and will likely never change.

Just a tangent since it doesn't change the point you're arguing, but "man" was originally a gender neutral term. In the Old English, it referred to any person, and "wer" and "wif" referred to males and females respectively. Hence, ultimately, words like "mankind", and the derivation of the word 'woman' itself (from 'wif' and 'man'). Then "wer" began to fall out of use (although it's still around in words like "werewolf") and "man" replaced it.

Just another interesting example of language evolving.

 

[Optimus Prime]

We’ll see what the pushback on this is
=========================


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is commemorating Transgender Day of Visibility by celebrating prominent transgender Americans and advocating against what his administration terms “dangerous anti-transgender legislative attacks” that have passed in statehouses across the country.

Biden on Thursday is announcing new measures aimed at making the federal government more inclusive for transgender people, including a new “X” gender marker on U.S. passport applications beginning on April 11 and new Transportation Security Administration scanners that are gender-neutral.

The Democratic president’s administration is working to expand the availability of the “X” gender marker to airlines and federal travel programs and will make it easier for transgender people to change their gender information in Social Security Administration records.


Visitors to the White House will soon also be able to select an “X” gender marker option in the White House Worker and Visitor Entry System, which is used to conduct screening background checks for visitors to the executive mansion…….

White House hosts transgender 'Jeopardy!' star Amy Schneider

President Joe Biden has marked Transgender Day of Visibility by denouncing what he's calling “hateful bills” being passed at the state level.

apnews.com

 

[V Chip]

I guess, but I also think I was lucky I wasn't being actively groomed like these kids in government schools are now.

It's so ironic that so many righties are latching onto the "grooming" narrative now that it is being deliberately pushed by those anti-gay groups... they're *being* groomed by those groups and they're all too dim to notice it.

 

[MT15]

I replied to your comment about four year olds. I think the fact that you can't reply to my response about what four year olds are being taught without having to immediately conflate it with your other posts about other children speaks volumes. You're demonstrating you can't focus on any particular aspect of your argument, because no aspect of your argument can stand up to any reasonable scrutiny.

That said, as far as your links go, if you'd actually read the articles you'd posted, you'd already know that your representation of them is wrong. For example, your abcnews link explicitly quotes the parent as having given permission for a boy's name to be used for attendance purposes, following a meeting with them. Even if you take the parent's account as not in itself misleading, by their own account, they were involved and that was not kept from them.

The article also states that:

Under state and federal law, however, students have privacy rights that extend to sexual orientation and gender identity, according to the American Civil Liberties Union. Only in limited circumstances can a school notify a parent of their child’s sexual identity against their wishes.​

​

“Outside of school, these students may similarly face potential hostility at home because of who they are,” said attorney Peter Renn of Lambda Legal. “For example, involuntarily outing a student as LGBTQ to their parents can very well lead to them getting kicked out of the home in some circumstances.”​

​

So, if you'd actually read it, you would have some understanding of not only what the policies are, but why they are too.

Or you can carry on believing every half-baked claim you read, ignoring anything that conflicts with them, and posting easily refuted nonsense here. Not sure why you'd want to do that though. Have you considered taking up a hobby?

I think there’s an explanation that makes sense here. Of course it’s totally speculation on my part, but keeping that in mind, my guess is that he actually does read about these stories but doesn’t want to post the article he actually read. So he searches for the MSM coverage and posts it without reading it.