The trade and economy mega-thread (1 Viewer)

Trump really believes this

superchuck500 said:

Trump really believes this

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Yeah, Trump is literally starting a path to war with our neighbors. He's such an idiot.

Wasn't sure where to put this.

Remember when Musk told advertisers who were boycotting X to fork right off?

Well, now he wants to sue them for doing what he told them to do. Lol.

superchuck500 said:

Trump really believes this

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How can anyone alive today, who has seen the technological advances of the past 50 years, hold this view? That 1870-1914 was the greatest period for technological advancement?

DaveXA said:

Wasn't sure where to put this.

Remember when Musk told advertisers who were boycotting X to fork right off?

Well, now he wants to sue them for doing what he told them to do. Lol.

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What could be illegal about an advertiser deciding to pull their ads?

MT15 said:

What could be illegal about an advertiser deciding to pull their ads?

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The big ol' meanies hurt Musk's feelings bottom line, and that can't be allowed to stand in his world.

MT15 said:

What could be illegal about an advertiser deciding to pull their ads?

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He’s arguing that it was collusion - it’s clearly a junk argument but companies have been settling with Trump on junk cases, who knows how cowardly they’ll be.

MT15 said:

How can anyone alive today, who has seen the technological advances of the past 50 years, hold this view? That 1870-1914 was the greatest period for technological advancement?

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“

The Second Industrial Revolution, 1870-1914”​

The Second Industrial Revolution, which took place from 1870 to 1914, was a period of rapid technological and industrial growth. This era saw the development of new machines, production methods, and energy sources.

Inventions

• Electric light bulb: Invented by Thomas Edison in 1882
• Telephone: Patented by Alexander Graham Bell and Elisha Gray in 1876
• Internal combustion engine: Invented in 1886, this engine powered the first automobiles and airplanes
• Typewriter: Invented in 1867
• Phonograph: Patented in 1887 by Emile Berliner
• Radio: Invented in 1895
• Aspirin: Invented in 1899

New technologies

• Steel: The Bessemer and open-hearth processes revolutionized steel production
• Electricity: The electric generator replaced steam and water-powered engines
• Mechanized farm equipment: Transformed agriculture into a big industry

New forms of transportation

• Railroads: Allowed for cheap transportation of materials and products
• Automobiles: The internal combustion engine made automobiles possible
• Airplanes: The Wright brothers made the first airplane flight in 1903

New forms of communication

• Telegraphs: Circulated new ideas
• Newspapers: Circulated new ideas
• Radios: Circulated new ideas

The second Industrial Revolution was foundational.

Sendai said:

“

The Second Industrial Revolution, 1870-1914”​

The Second Industrial Revolution, 1870-1914

Between 1820 and1860, the United States was transformed by unprecedented urbanization and territorial expansion, fueling the Second Industrial Revolution.

ushistoryscene.com

The Second Industrial Revolution, which took place from 1870 to 1914, was a period of rapid technological and industrial growth. This era saw the development of new machines, production methods, and energy sources.

Inventions

• Electric light bulb: Invented by Thomas Edison in 1882
• Telephone: Patented by Alexander Graham Bell and Elisha Gray in 1876
• Internal combustion engine: Invented in 1886, this engine powered the first automobiles and airplanes
• Typewriter: Invented in 1867
• Phonograph: Patented in 1887 by Emile Berliner
• Radio: Invented in 1895
• Aspirin: Invented in 1899

New technologies

• Steel: The Bessemer and open-hearth processes revolutionized steel production
• Electricity: The electric generator replaced steam and water-powered engines
• Mechanized farm equipment: Transformed agriculture into a big industry

New forms of transportation

• Railroads: Allowed for cheap transportation of materials and products
• Automobiles: The internal combustion engine made automobiles possible
• Airplanes: The Wright brothers made the first airplane flight in 1903

New forms of communication

• Telegraphs: Circulated new ideas
• Newspapers: Circulated new ideas
• Radios: Circulated new ideas

The second Industrial Revolution was foundational.

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Now try a similar list the last 50 years.
BTW, at a glance, newspapers were not a new form of communication in 1870, neither railroads a new form of transportation.

SystemShock said:

Now try a similar list the last 50 years.
BTW, at a glance, newspapers were not a new form of communication in 1870.

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The whole debate is a bit silly IMO. Technology is a long curve with eras of greater steepness than others but always building on itself. The “information/digital” age has seen great achievement but you can’t run a microchip without electricity.

The point to be debated is whether you can take US tariff policy from that era and apply it now? What are the economic realities and nature of global trade then compared to now to determine whether this policy has any merit?

superchuck500 said:

The whole debate is a bit silly IMO. Technology is a long curve with eras of greater steepness than others but always building on itself. The “information/digital” age has seen great achievement but you can’t run a microchip without electricity.

The point to be debated is whether you can take US tariff policy from that era and apply it now? What are the economic realities and nature of global trade then compared to now to determine whether this policy has any merit?

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"A bit silly" is an understatement, it's forking stupid to even entertain the thought of instituting 19th century economic policy to a 21st century world! We would've been stuck in the Industrial Age had our economy not evolved with the rest of the world.

superchuck500 said:

The whole debate is a bit silly IMO. Technology is a long curve with eras of greater steepness than others but always building on itself. The “information/digital” age has seen great achievement but you can’t run a microchip without electricity.

The point to be debated is whether you can take US tariff policy from that era and apply it now? What are the economic realities and nature of global trade then compared to now to determine whether this policy has any merit?

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It’s obvious from the graph that tariffs as a source of revenue pretty much disappeared in 1913, when the income tax amendment passed. As to the value of tariffs today I have my doubts. Income taxes world wide have replaced the need.

SystemShock said:

Now try a similar list the last 50 years.
BTW, at a glance, newspapers were not a new form of communication in 1870, neither railroads a new form of transportation.

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The automated mass production of newspapers came in the second Industrial Revolution.

superchuck500 said:

The whole debate is a bit silly IMO. Technology is a long curve with eras of greater steepness than others but always building on itself. The “information/digital” age has seen great achievement but you can’t run a microchip without electricity.

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Yep... every technology we know has a precursor. Without humans learning to carve rocks and mastering fire, none of it happens

superchuck500 said:

The point to be debated is whether you can take US tariff policy from that era and apply it now? What are the economic realities and nature of global trade then compared to now to determine whether this policy has any merit?

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It's a much more complicated world today, and the products are much more complex too... the products we buy, even if they say "made in the U.S.A.", chances are they have components made in other countries, or the material to make the components comes from another country or countries. Add to that, the large number of U.S. corporations that have moved their manufacturing overseas, specifically to China and Mexico. Even those damn MAGA hats come from China.

From MX, the first hits to the U.S. consumer should come from cars and computers; the 3 biggest exports coming from MX are cars, electrical machinery, and computerized machinery (which includes computers and computer parts).

For U.S. corporations, I don't know if a 25% tariff would be cheaper than moving operations to the U.S.

Nike shoes come mainly from Viet Nam and China. If China gets hit with a 25% tariff, what's cheaper for Nike? Move manufacturing to the U.S.? Or just reroute shipments to Viet Nam, and label the shoes "Made in Viet Nam"? Or even increase manufacturing in Viet Nam, Indonesia, Thailand, and South Korea? Or just hold on for 4 years and see what happens?

What's Trump gonna do? Levy tariffs on the entire world?

Sendai said:

The automated mass production of newspapers came in the second Industrial Revolution.

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Cool. And newspapers as information media are now practically obsolete. I can get news as they are happening, even from people it's happening to, anywhere in the world, from anywhere in the world, out at sea, in the air, and/or on land, in text or video, in the palm of my hand.

And look, the industrial revolution was a great leap in technology, no question, but the leap the last 50 years it's much greater.

superchuck500 said:

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This whole tariff thing is a classic case of cutting off nose to spite face.

Trump would rather destroy our economy than be proven wrong. And his lemmings genuinely think he'll magically be right.