Will “mass deportation” actually happen (6 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[SamAndreas]

Okay, here's one that I'm the "I am..." on. I grew up in southwest Louisiana surrounded by Cypress and Tupelo swamps, bayous, lakes and brackish marshes. It's not just the alligators and snakes that make it deadly to try to traverse the Everglades without proper clothing and supplies. It's the combined effects of the heat, humidity, swarms of mosquitoes that will completely cover any exposed skin, swarms of deer fly and horse flies that will do the same, poisonous water and mud, mud that creates a suction on your legs too strong to break, all kinds of water and land borne parasites, predatory big cats, probably some tusked and very territorial wild boars, alligators, imported crocodiles, poisonous snails, poisonous snakes, large constrictor snakes and so on.

I am completely confident that no prisoner would be able to make it 10 miles against those obstacles in the clothes they will be wearing and with no supplies. If you've never slogged through a swamp or marsh in only foot high water, you have no idea how exhausting it is. 10 miles of that is like 50 miles uphill on low grass pasture.

The real horror of this concentration camp is not that people can't survive an escape; it's that most of them won't survive being detained there. The heat, humidity, diseases and health weakening swarms of mosquitoes, deerfly and horseflies will kill a lot of them in a matter of weeks. Alcatraz may have been harder to escape, but Alcatraz ain't got shirt on a tent prison in the middle of the Everglades during the heart of the summer.

This is a death camp and the main reason they are putting it in the middle of the Everglades is not to keep the prisoners in, it's to keep the rest of us out so we can't see and document them intentionally letting the elements kill the prisoners in their death camp. Why spend money on bullets or gas, when you can let nature do you're murdering for free. The other advantage of the Everglades they have or will figure out, they won't need mass graves. They can just dump the murdered people's bodies in remote areas of the Everglades and once again nature will take care of the rest for free.

Can you explain to me how the Spanish conquistador Ponce De León managed to explore the everglades while he was looking for the fountain of youth during the early 1500's?

They wore heavy iron armor, carried heavy weapons, their clothing style tended toward wearing mid length shorts, or in some cases what looks like mini skirts, with no covering over their legs up to the knee, if not up to mid thigh level?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Can you explain to me how the Spanish conquistador Ponce De León managed to explore the everglades while he was looking for the fountain of youth during the early 1500's?

Seriously? He had the clothing, supplies, tools and forced labor that he needed. Do you think that anyone escaping from the Everglades concentration camp will be as well provisioned as Ponce' De Leon and his men were? Seriously?

They wore heavy iron armor, carried heavy weapons, their clothing style tended toward wearing mid length shorts, or in some cases what looks like mini skirts, with no covering over their legs up to the knee, if not up to mid thigh level?

You do know that a lot of his men died from the elements during that exploration, don't you? Also, please share the photos of his men tromping through the Everglades in the garb you describe. I have not seen those and would love to see them.

Have you ever walked through a swamp or marsh with water a foot deep or deeper? I have a whole bunch of times in my life for a lot of different reasons. When we did it, we had hip boots or waders, a shirt ton of insect repellent, food and water. We drove to where we would start walking, never walked more than 3 miles and never lasted more than around 5 hours before being back at our vehicles to drive away. And we never ever ever stayed until dark, because no amount of insect repellent would protect us from the onslaught of misqetoues, horsefly and dearfly that started as the sun starts to set.

I've also been bullfrogging at night. We had everything else I mentioned above plus headlamps and firearms and we never did more than a couple of hours and knew what to avoid to minimize risk.

 

[SamAndreas]

Source for your fact checking?


So you're speculating?

Didn't fact check other than as I often do I read three articles from different sources and then set my hands to typing paraphrasing what I had learned about the topic into what I hope will be a coherent tresult. I save links, or at least remember where I found the quote if I'm going to quote someone.

This post is clearly an opinion post, your manner of interrogation would be appropriate for a post which makes factual assertions. Clearly a sentence where the word kangaroo is used is not intended to be taken as factual assertion, it's an opinion being expressed. The context is clear enough about that.

My opinion that JAG lawyers are pretty darned good comes from my time in service. My opinion about the average quality of immigration kangaroos and their courts comes to me secondhand from dating an immigration lawyer years and years ago.

The reason I asked superchuck to review it is that last part about how immigration judges are appointed is because I'm working off of memory after having read about it 15 or 20 years ago. Since that small part of the post at the end does make an assertion which implies a fact it does need to be checked. So I stated it, and then asked Superchuck if he would look at that and comment.

That request to Superchuck clearly marks that assertion at the end with a question mark, such that the average reader can avoid repeating it if superchuck disapproves it, or doesn't respond.

Any more questions?

 

[SamAndreas]

Seriously? He had the clothing, supplies, tools and forced labor that he needed. Do you think that anyone escaping from the Everglades concentration camp will be as well provisioned as Ponce' De Leon and his men were? Seriously?


You do know that a lot of his men died from the elements during that exploration, don't you? Also, please share the photos of his men tromping through the Everglades in the garb you describe. I have not seen those and would love to see them.

Have you ever walked through a swamp or marsh with water a foot deep or deeper? I have a whole bunch of times in my life for a lot of different reasons. When we did it, we had hip boots or waders, a shirt ton of insect repellent, food and water. We drove to where we would start walking, never walked more than 3 miles and never lasted more than around 5 hours before being back at our vehicles to drive away. And we never ever ever stayed until dark, because no amount of insect repellent would protect us from the onslaught of misqetoues, horsefly and dearfly that started as the sun starts to set.

I've also been bullfrogging at night. We had everything else I mentioned above plus headlamps and firearms and we never did more than a couple of hours and knew what to avoid to minimize risk.

I grew up with a small swampy spot located between our house and the highway. I was walking in it one time gathering the edible parts of cattails when I stepped down into what I would describe as quicksand. Obviously I did manage to swim out ot it, afterall I'm here 50 years later. I'm pretty sure at one point that my head was under water.

Did you ever eat from the edible parts of cattails, they aren't bad? Kind of water chestnuty like.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Didn't fact check other than as I often do I read three articles from different sources and then set my hands to typing paraphrasing what I had learned about the topic into what I hope will be a coherent tresult. I save links, or at least remember where I found the quote if I'm going to quote someone. This post is clearly an opinion post, your manner of interrogation would be appropriate for a post which makes factual assertions.

You made factual assertions in support of your opinion. You claimed to have sources for those facts. I asked what your sources were.

Asking you for your sources after you said you had read a few different sources is an "interrogation" to you? Seems like an exaggeration to me.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I grew up with a small swampy spot located between our house and the highway. I was walking in it one time gathering the edible parts of cattails when I stepped down into what I would describe as quicksand. Obviously I did manage to swim out ot it, afterall I'm here 50 years later. I'm pretty sure at one point that my head was under water.

I've walked in areas that were double digit square miles or more. It wasn't just a small swampy spot. The Everglades is not a "small swampy spot." Since you are saying you stepped into the kind of mud that sucks you in and almost drowned, you should understand that I'm not in any way overstating how difficult it would be for someone to survive an escape attempt surrounded by Everglades swamp and marsh.

Did you ever eat from the edible parts of cattails, they aren't bad? Kind of water chestnuty like.

No I haven't. What we called cattails had straw-like stalks and their heads were like densely packed white dandelion petals. There was nothing but straw and fluff. I can't remember ever seeing their root structure, so maybe there was something fleshy there.

 

[SamAndreas]

I've walked in areas that were double digit square miles or more. It wasn't just a small swampy spot. The Everglades is not a "small swampy spot." Since you are saying you stepped into the kind of mud that sucks you in and almost drowned, you should understand that I'm not in any way overstating how difficult it would be for someone to survive an escape attempt surrounded by Everglades swamp and marsh.


No I haven't. What we called cattails had straw-like stalks and their heads were like densely packed white dandelion petals. There was nothing but straw and fluff. I can't remember ever seeing their root structure, so maybe there was something fleshy there.

Quicksand is made of sand, not mud.

The part of a cattail that is edible is the root structure but that part isn't that best tasting part, the part to gather for food is between two root structures is like a 3/4 inch dia. tuber which connects them together sometimes.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Lawyers for Kilmar Abrego Garcia have detailed the “severe mistreatment” and “torture” he experienced during his month-long detention inside a notorious El Salvador prison, in a renewed lawsuit challenging his wrongful removal from the United States.

His attorneys say the 29-year-old Salvadoran immigrant was subject to “severe beatings, severe sleep deprivation, inadequate nutrition, and psychological torture” at the facility, where lawyers for President Donald Trump’s administration have admitted he was mistakenly sent in March before a weeks-long legal battle to keep him imprisoned there.

Abrego Garcia was abruptly returned to the U.S. to face a federal criminal indictment accusing him of smuggling undocumented migrants across the country, allegations that were only raised after he was removed. He has pleaded not guilty.

The new legal filing follows ongoing debates among attorneys, judges and the Department of Justice over whether Abrego Garcia should remain in jail before trial as lawyers for the government threaten to deport him as soon as he is released from custody.

When he arrived in El Salvador on March 25, still in chains, two officials grabbed his arms and pushed him down the stairs from the airplane, according to the new complaint.

He was “forcibly seated” on a bus and placed in a second set of chains and handcuffs, then “repeatedly struck by officers when he attempted to raise his head,” the filing states.……..

New legal filing details graphic ‘torture’ of Kilmar Abrego Garcia

The wrongfully deported Salvadoran father experienced ‘severe beatings, severe sleep deprivation, inadequate nutrition, and psychological torture’ inside notorious CECOT, lawsuit says

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Dragon]

Quicksand is made of sand, not mud.

The part of a cattail that is edible is the root structure but that part isn't that best tasting part, the part to gather for food is between two root structures is like a 3/4 inch dia. tuber which connects them together sometimes.

We have vacationed in Florida and Louisianna for more than 20 years and often visited the Everglades. We have never been able to stay there for more than 3 hours in the summer, despite taking precautions like bug spray, cooling fans and proper clothing. We would never ever spend time there after sunset. Despite that my husband ended up in hospital 4 weeks after we returned from one of our trips, with a serious unidentified infection which the docs thought that he had caught during our time in Florida.

Having people stay in those conditions without proper mosquito netting and given how other detention centers are described - poor sanitation and food service - will be a death sentence to many.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

We have vacationed in Florida and Louisianna for more than 20 years and often visited the Everglades. We have never been able to stay there for more than 3 hours in the summer, despite taking precautions like bug spray, cooling fans and proper clothing. We would never ever spend time there after sunset. Despite that my husband ended up in hospital 4 weeks after we returned from one of our trips, with a serious unidentified infection which the docs thought that he had caught during our time in Florida.

Having people stay in those conditions without proper mosquito netting and given how other detention centers are described - poor sanitation and food service - will be a death sentence to many.

I think the only reason they aren't setting up a tent death camp in Death Valley in the height of summer, is because California won't enable them like Florida is and that other state, I think South Carolina, is eager to do. I suspect they are already in the planning or construction phases for tent death camps in the very rural northern states that have deadly winters.

 

[Optimus Prime]

A US army veteran who lived in the country for nearly 50 years – and earned a prestigious military citation for being wounded in combat – has left for South Korea after he says past struggles with drug addiction left him targeted by the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown.

“I can’t believe this is happening in America,” Sae Joon Park, who held legal permanent residency, told National Public Radio in an interview before his departure Monday from Hawaii. “That blows me away – like [it is] a country that I fought for.”

Park’s remarks to NPR and the Hawaii news station KITV vividly illustrate the effects that Donald Trump’s immigration policies can have on those who came to the US from abroad and obtained so-called green cards. His experience also highlights the challenges that noncitizens can face if they are ensnared by legal problems after serving the US military.


As the 55-year-old Park put it, he was brought to the US from South Korea at age seven and enlisted in the army after high school. He later participated in the US’s invasion of Panama in 1989 that toppled the regime of General Manuel Noriega – who was wanted by American authorities on accusations of drug trafficking, money laundering and racketeering.

During what was codenamed Operation Just Cause, Park was shot in the back during an exchange of gunfire with Panamanian troops. He flew back to the US, accepted the Purple Heart decoration given to US military members who are hurt or wounded in combat, secured an honorable discharge from the army and began physically recovering.

But he had difficulty grappling with post-traumatic stress disorder from being shot, and he became addicted to the illicit drug crack cocaine as he tried to cope, he recounted to NPR.

Park spent a few years in prison beginning in 2009 after police in New York arrested him while he tried to buy crack from a dealer one night, he said. At one point, Park skipped a court hearing related to his arrest knowing he would fail a required drug test. That doomed his chances of converting his legal residency into full US citizenship, which the government offers to military veterans who arrive to the country from abroad and serve honorably.

A judge ordered Park’s removal from the US, though he was allowed to remain in the country on the condition that he checked in annually with US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents. That arrangement is typically offered to people whose removals are not considered a priority, and Park took advantage of the opportunity to settle in Hawaii while raising a son and daughter.

Then earlier in June, as NPR noted, Ice officials under the Trump administration’s direction warned him that he would be detained and deported from the US unless he left voluntarily in the coming weeks. He chose to bid farewell to his friends, children and mother, who is aged 85 and battling the early stages of dementia.


Park told KITV he realized he may never see any of his loved ones again as he prepared to fly out of Honolulu’s Daniel K Inouye international airport.…..

Purple heart army veteran self-deports after 50 years from ‘country I fought for’

Green card holder Sae Joon Park left for South Korea after saying he was being targeted by Trump administration

www.theguardian.com

A Purple Heart veteran who self-deported to South Korea last week after being targeted with detention and deportation says that he believes his diagnosed PTSD has worsened since arriving in a country he hasn’t been to in decades.

Sae Joon Park, 55, a green-card holder who served in the Army more than 30 years ago, says he was told to leave the U.S. because of old charges related to drug possession and bail jumping, or a failure to return to court. Park said the offenses trace back to the difficulty he once had dealing with his then-undiagnosed PTSD.

“It just comes out of nowhere. I’ll be walking around just thinking about something, I’ll just start bawling, just crying nonstop. And I have no control over that,” Park told NBC News from Seoul of his PTSD. “I’ve been dealing with it the best I can everyday.”

Park, a longtime Hawaii resident, said that for years, he attended annual check-ins with Immigration and Customs Enforcement after being served the removal order over a decade ago. However, in early June, during what he assumed was a regular check-in, ICE agents gave him an ankle monitor and told him that he would face detention and deportation if he failed to leave within three weeks. So Park, hoping to spare his family from further stress, booked a ticket back to his home country............

A Purple Heart vet who self-deported to Korea says he feels his PTSD is now worse

In June, ICE agents gave Sae Joon Park an ankle monitor and told him he would be deported over old charges related to drug possession and bail jumping if he didn’t leave in weeks.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

A supporter of President Donald Trump has refused to take down MAGA flags outside his home even after federal agents arrested his Iranian wife.

Arpineh Masihi was detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents in Diamond Bar, California, last week, according to FOX 11 Los Angeles.

However, her husband Arthu Sahakyan told the outlet: "I'm still supporting [Trump]. Even though my friends say take the flag down, you're going through a lot. I'm like no. The flag stands."

Tensions are heightened between the U.S. and Iran after Trump ordered airstrikes on Iranian nuclear sites. There are growing concerns about potential terror cells that could be activated in response.

More than 130 Iranian nationals were detained in the United States last week, according to Fox News.

In footage obtained by Fox 11 Los Angeles, Masihi is seen going into her home to say goodbye to the couple's four children as federal agents wait outside.

"She came and kissed the kids and that was it," Sahakyan told the outlet. "That was the last time we saw her."

Masihi was born in Iran and arrived in the United States as a refugee when she was three years old, per the report. Her green card was revoked around 15 years ago following a theft-related conviction, it added.

The family has been navigating the immigration system ever since in hopes of restoring Masihi's American citizenship, Sahakyan said.

He told the outlet that his family has long supported Trump, believing his immigration policies aim to strengthen national security. However, he acknowledged that his views on the issue have shifted somewhat in light of recent events.

"Trump is not trying to do anything bad," Sahakyan said, per the report. "We understand what he's doing. He wants the best for the country. I'm just trying to make the best of it. I don't want any families to go through this. If they are, I apologize for what they're going through because it's hard."................

Husband refuses to take Trump flags down after wife detained by ICE

"Even though my friends say take the flag down, you're going through a lot. I'm like no. The flag stands," Arthu Sahakyan told local media.

www.newsweek.com

 

[superchuck500]

I checked into the guardsman as immigration judges aspect, that one sounds awful, but it's mostly the way the news about it is spun, it isn't awful. The administration is not planning to slot average guard personnel to be these judges, however they may use low level troops as bailiffs, guards, and such to operate that kangaroo court.

This part will fly, that Florida guard unit has a Judge Advocate General's office (JAG), the proposal is for people from that office being used as immigration judges. According to a report I saw, they will get four weeks of training to make them familiar with the immigration kangaroo court system. It sound like they are going to pull four lawyers, and or judges, from that JAG office to become those kangaroo judges.

In a real sense the folks they would get from that JAG office to fill in for the overburdened immigration courts would be more than qualified to be a judge than immigration judges normally are.

Immigration judges are not actually judges in my book, I consider them to be kangaroos. I think immigration judges are appointed by someone in the President's office, then are confirmed by someone in the DOJ's office. I don't know that they even have to be lawyers to be appointed.

I'm posting what I think to be true, would you look at it and comment on this, @superchuck500

Yeah, so basically what it is is that most aspects of immigration are administrative - they are handled under relevant offices of the US Executive Branch. There needs to be a process for certain adjudications and appeals, and so the immigration legislation sets up a whole body for adjudication and first-line appeal within this administrative system under the executive branch. The system in immigration is very expansive but it's not the only example of where federal administrative regimes have adjudication processes built-in to them.

But this means that the "judges" aren't Article III judicial branch judges - they are more like executive branch hearing officers. They are appointed and approved through DOJ and are executive branch employees. This gives the executive branch quite a bit of flexibility as to their qualifications and management.

There are aspects of immigration that do end up in Article III courts in front of federal judges - most importantly including any criminal charges that result from immigration action and violations.

 

[SamAndreas]

We have vacationed in Florida and Louisianna for more than 20 years and often visited the Everglades. We have never been able to stay there for more than 3 hours in the summer, despite taking precautions like bug spray, cooling fans and proper clothing. We would never ever spend time there after sunset. Despite that my husband ended up in hospital 4 weeks after we returned from one of our trips, with a serious unidentified infection which the docs thought that he had caught during our time in Florida.

Having people stay in those conditions without proper mosquito netting and given how other detention centers are described - poor sanitation and food service - will be a death sentence to many.

I don't like the concept of prisons. I think they usually make bad into worce. I realize we have to have something, or the alternative is worse. If we didn't have prisons we'd occasionally have to destroy a person. We imprison far too many in this country.


I don't like to be too hot either. We get too darned hot here as well. This year has been cooler though. It's been two years since we last saw over a hundred and ten.

 

[SamAndreas]

Yeah, so basically what it is is that most aspects of immigration are administrative - they are handled under relevant offices of the US Executive Branch. There needs to be a process for certain adjudications and appeals, and so the immigration legislation sets up a whole body for adjudication and first-line appeal within this administrative system under the executive branch. The system in immigration is very expansive but it's not the only example of where federal administrative regimes have adjudication processes built-in to them.

But this means that the "judges" aren't Article III judicial branch judges - they are more like executive branch hearing officers. They are appointed and approved through DOJ and are executive branch employees. This gives the executive branch quite a bit of flexibility as to their qualifications and management.

There are aspects of immigration that do end up in Article III courts in front of federal judges - most importantly including any criminal charges that result from immigration action and violations.

Thanks, your description is a good one. I had never heard the details other than being with lawyer for a while who worked with that system and disliked it. She complained about it all the time. That was in the 80's. It's clearly gotten worse.

 

[SFIDC3]

A supporter of President Donald Trump has refused to take down MAGA flags outside his home even after federal agents arrested his Iranian wife.

Arpineh Masihi was detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents in Diamond Bar, California, last week, according to FOX 11 Los Angeles.

However, her husband Arthu Sahakyan told the outlet: "I'm still supporting [Trump]. Even though my friends say take the flag down, you're going through a lot. I'm like no. The flag stands."

Tensions are heightened between the U.S. and Iran after Trump ordered airstrikes on Iranian nuclear sites. There are growing concerns about potential terror cells that could be activated in response.

More than 130 Iranian nationals were detained in the United States last week, according to Fox News.

In footage obtained by Fox 11 Los Angeles, Masihi is seen going into her home to say goodbye to the couple's four children as federal agents wait outside.

"She came and kissed the kids and that was it," Sahakyan told the outlet. "That was the last time we saw her."

Masihi was born in Iran and arrived in the United States as a refugee when she was three years old, per the report. Her green card was revoked around 15 years ago following a theft-related conviction, it added.

The family has been navigating the immigration system ever since in hopes of restoring Masihi's American citizenship, Sahakyan said.

He told the outlet that his family has long supported Trump, believing his immigration policies aim to strengthen national security. However, he acknowledged that his views on the issue have shifted somewhat in light of recent events.

"Trump is not trying to do anything bad," Sahakyan said, per the report. "We understand what he's doing. He wants the best for the country. I'm just trying to make the best of it. I don't want any families to go through this. If they are, I apologize for what they're going through because it's hard."................

Husband refuses to take Trump flags down after wife detained by ICE

"Even though my friends say take the flag down, you're going through a lot. I'm like no. The flag stands," Arthu Sahakyan told local media.

www.newsweek.com

Trump over family......true cult member above.....petting the leopard as it eats his face....

 

[SamAndreas]

Trump over family......true cult member above.....petting the leopard as it eats his face....

Over the years often posting on conservative boards, I've become aware that a whole lot of the guys on the right have marriages which have failed, and to replace those wives they brought in mail order brides from other parts of the world.

I don't understand that. They're always down on immigration even after they've caused a woman to immigrate here.

 

[efil4]

A supporter of President Donald Trump has refused to take down MAGA flags outside his home even after federal agents arrested his Iranian wife.

Arpineh Masihi was detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents in Diamond Bar, California, last week, according to FOX 11 Los Angeles.

However, her husband Arthu Sahakyan told the outlet: "I'm still supporting [Trump]. Even though my friends say take the flag down, you're going through a lot. I'm like no. The flag stands."

Tensions are heightened between the U.S. and Iran after Trump ordered airstrikes on Iranian nuclear sites. There are growing concerns about potential terror cells that could be activated in response.

More than 130 Iranian nationals were detained in the United States last week, according to Fox News.

In footage obtained by Fox 11 Los Angeles, Masihi is seen going into her home to say goodbye to the couple's four children as federal agents wait outside.

"She came and kissed the kids and that was it," Sahakyan told the outlet. "That was the last time we saw her."

Masihi was born in Iran and arrived in the United States as a refugee when she was three years old, per the report. Her green card was revoked around 15 years ago following a theft-related conviction, it added.

The family has been navigating the immigration system ever since in hopes of restoring Masihi's American citizenship, Sahakyan said.

He told the outlet that his family has long supported Trump, believing his immigration policies aim to strengthen national security. However, he acknowledged that his views on the issue have shifted somewhat in light of recent events.

"Trump is not trying to do anything bad," Sahakyan said, per the report. "We understand what he's doing. He wants the best for the country. I'm just trying to make the best of it. I don't want any families to go through this. If they are, I apologize for what they're going through because it's hard."................

Husband refuses to take Trump flags down after wife detained by ICE

"Even though my friends say take the flag down, you're going through a lot. I'm like no. The flag stands," Arthu Sahakyan told local media.

www.newsweek.com

Something tells me that he is perfectly content with his wife's detention/deportation

Cheaper than an attorney and doesnt "lose face" by filing for divorce (if that is frowned upon by family etc)