What happens to the Republican Party now? (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[DaveXA]

I would argue his first loyalty is to the country and the constitution. He lied and covered up for Trump for most of his tenure. He could have stopped Jan 6 if he had been truthful and forceful at the time.

How? He couldn't stop that no more than anyone else could have. It wasn't up to him. Exactly what could he do to stop it? Even if he said it all, it wouldn't have stopped 1/6.

I'm no fan of Barr, but he said enough for people to get an idea that something was afoot. He said outright that Biden won the election and there was no voter fraud. That much is clear.

And of course I agree where his first loyalties should lie, but as always with politics, it doesn't happen that way in many cases.

 

[DaveXA]

If it weren't such a pathetic attempt at it, this is the highest level of pitiful attempts at CYA I think I've ever witnessed. What a vile piece of human garbage Barr is....basically knowingly supporting a pyschopath is my take.....

I agree with that, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he did say Biden clearly won and that there was no fraud. And even during Trump's administration, he didn't always agree with the Administration on every point, but he clearly had to go along with enough to keep his position as AG. We could have done a lot worse than Barr at AG back then.

 

[SFIDC3]

I agree with that, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he did say Biden clearly won and that there was no fraud. And even during Trump's administration, he didn't always agree with the Administration on every point, but he clearly had to go along with enough to keep his position as AG. We could have done a lot worse than Barr at AG back then.

He said that to CHA, he is smart enough to know that he doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history, I wholly disagree with your take.

To me he is worse than alot of the Trump Q nuts and others who are mentally ill and really believe the garbage that is spewed.

Because Dave, he knows better, he is intelligent enough to realize what Trump was and is, and only when he feels there could be consequences does he all of a sudden tell small truths, for his own sake.....

He is the scum of the scum.....

 

[MT15]

Soooo treacherous, they are just pathological liars at this point. From what I have read the “document” they are citing as credible “evidence” is a statement form the fbi fills out when somebody calls in a tip. I could call in that Grassley eats unborn babies and worships Satan and there would be a form like that filled out. They know this. It’s a pathetic lying smear.

 

[MT15]

How? He couldn't stop that no more than anyone else could have. It wasn't up to him. Exactly what could he do to stop it? Even if he said it all, it wouldn't have stopped 1/6.

I'm no fan of Barr, but he said enough for people to get an idea that something was afoot. He said outright that Biden won the election and there was no voter fraud. That much is clear.

And of course I agree where his first loyalties should lie, but as always with politics, it doesn't happen that way in many cases.

I think he could have sounded the alarm rather than giving a tepid statement only after asked. A statement that was probably not even carried on Fox, Newsmax or OAN. He could have called a press conference. He could have warned the innocent dupes not to try anything illegal on the 6th. We will have to disagree on him a bit. Sure he didn’t actively aid and abet the insurrection but he didn’t actively work against it either.

 

[DaveXA]

He said that to CHA, he is smart enough to know that he doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history, I wholly disagree with your take.

To me he is worse than alot of the Trump Q nuts and others who are mentally ill and really believe the garbage that is spewed.

Because Dave, he knows better, he is intelligent enough to realize what Trump was and is, and only when he feels there could be consequences does he all of a sudden tell small truths, for his own sake.....

He is the scum of the scum.....

Lol, sorry, no he isn't worse than the Q nuts. Not by a mile. And I don't even like the guy. He's got his issues, but let's not exaggerate here.

 

[DaveXA]

I think he could have sounded the alarm rather than giving a tepid statement only after asked. A statement that was probably not even carried on Fox, Newsmax or OAN. He could have called a press conference. He could have warned the innocent dupes not to try anything illegal on the 6th. We will have to disagree on him a bit. Sure he didn’t actively aid and abet the insurrection but he didn’t actively work against it either.

I mean, what if he did sound the proverbial alarm? You seriously think it would have made a difference? After all we've seen? Really?

And...innocent dupes? Uh, no, they weren't innocent. Most if not nearly all who went into the Capitol that day knew what they were doing. They heard and uttered the "hang Pence" chants. They saw the hateful language being spewed, and they agreed with it. Sorry, not gonna excuse them as being "innocent".

 

[MT15]

I mean, what if he did sound the proverbial alarm? You seriously think it would have made a difference? After all we've seen? Really?

And...innocent dupes? Uh, no, they weren't innocent. Most if not nearly all who went into the Capitol that day knew what they were doing. They heard and uttered the "hang Pence" chants. They saw the hateful language being spewed, and they agreed with it. Sorry, not gonna excuse them as being "innocent".

I’m not talking about the people who broke into the Capitol. The thousands who were there and provided cover of a sort for the ones who did the damage. Yes, if he went on Fox, NewsMax and OAN and flatly said there was no election fraud and did it in a timely manner I think thousands of people would have been dissuaded from coming to a rally named “Stop the Steal”. Maybe if one prominent R stood up there would be others. We will never know though, because he didn’t do that.

Oh, and he lied about the Mueller Report so he can just rot. He’s complicit, imo, for all the damage to this country Trump has done. He’s not the only one, but he doesn’t get credit for saying Trump is unfit now, when he could have said it when it mattered.

 

[DaveXA]

I’m not talking about the people who broke into the Capitol. The thousands who were there and provided cover of a sort for the ones who did the damage. Yes, if he went on Fox, NewsMax and OAN and flatly said there was no election fraud and did it in a timely manner I think thousands of people would have been dissuaded from coming to a rally named “Stop the Steal”. Maybe if one prominent R stood up there would be others. We will never know though, because he didn’t do that.

Oh, and he lied about the Mueller Report so he can just rot. He’s complicit, imo, for all the damage to this country Trump has done. He’s not the only one, but he doesn’t get credit for saying Trump is unfit now, when he could have said it when it mattered.

I dunno. If he's saying Trump is unfit, then good. It's late, but if it helps prevent Trump from getting elected, why wouldn't you take it? I couldn't care less about what credit he gets. What I do care about is Trump not getting elected again.

I suppose if our country is dumb enough to elect Trump again and destroy our county, we'll deserve it.

 

[DaveXA]

I’m not talking about the people who broke into the Capitol. The thousands who were there and provided cover of a sort for the ones who did the damage. Yes, if he went on Fox, NewsMax and OAN and flatly said there was no election fraud and did it in a timely manner I think thousands of people would have been dissuaded from coming to a rally named “Stop the Steal”. Maybe if one prominent R stood up there would be others. We will never know though, because he didn’t do that.

Oh, and he lied about the Mueller Report so he can just rot. He’s complicit, imo, for all the damage to this country Trump has done. He’s not the only one, but he doesn’t get credit for saying Trump is unfit now, when he could have said it when it mattered.

Oh, and another thought, Trumpers by and large hated Barr long before 1/6. They never did trust him. Every last person in that crowd was a Trumper. Barr saying anything like what you're suggesting would not have made a lick of difference. I have a good friend who's a die hard Trumper, and she wanted Trump to fire Barr long before the election.

The only real authority in Trumpers' minds was/is, well, Trump. Trump was the one who told them to finally go home. Trump was the one who told them to go to the Capitol. Trump was the one they adored, worshipped and listened to. Barr was a nobody to them.

 

[SFIDC3]

Lol, sorry, no he isn't worse than the Q nuts. Not by a mile. And I don't even like the guy. He's got his issues, but let's not exaggerate here.

Dave, you need to step back and take another look here IMO. A good portion of the Q nuts are mentally ill, unstable and brainwashed, as are a lot of Trump supporters in general. Barr is none of those things, he knows better, that makes him truly evil.....with a heaping helping of "soft self serve"....as it turns out.....and it seems you are forgetting the part where he played the role of Trump's personal attorney when it came to the Mueller investigation.....

 

[DaveXA]

Dave, you need to step back and take another look here IMO. A good portion of the Q nuts are mentally ill, unstable and brainwashed, as are a lot of Trump supporters in general. Barr is none of those things, he knows better, that makes him truly evil.....with a heaping helping of "soft self serve"....as it turns out.....and it seems you are forgetting the part where he played the role of Trump's personal attorney when it came to the Mueller investigation.....

I wholeheartedly disagree that Q nuts are mentally ill or what have you. I know a few, and outside of their inexplicable devotion to Trump, they're people with college degrees, professionals and otherwise fairly normal people. There certainly are some with mental issues, but most are people who can't see beyond their own warped prejudices and worldviews. We can't make excuses for those idiots at the Capitol on 1/6. They knew full well what they were doing.

There certainly are those who were easily duped or brainwashed, but I'd argue they're the exception.

Again, I would argue that while yes, Barr knew what he was doing, he's going to have some level of self-preservation politically and that would color his actions as an AG. Do I think he should have been more forceful? Sure, but none of us were sitting in that office with him making decisions of national security that we're not privy to. I don't care for him, but then, I can't really judge because I'm not able to see enough of what went on behind the scenes to judge.

Fwiw, if I recall correctly, on more than a few occasions, he was at odds with Trump when he was AG, but as AG, you're pretty limited in terms of what you can make public about those interactions. It is what it is.

 

[SFIDC3]

I wholeheartedly disagree that Q nuts are mentally ill or what have you. I know a few, and outside of their inexplicable devotion to Trump, they're people with college degrees, professionals and otherwise fairly normal people. There certainly are some with mental issues, but most are people who can't see beyond their own warped prejudices and worldviews. We can't make excuses for those idiots at the Capitol on 1/6. They knew full well what they were doing.

There certainly are those who were easily duped or brainwashed, but I'd argue they're the exception.

Again, I would argue that while yes, Barr knew what he was doing, he's going to have some level of self-preservation politically and that would color his actions as an AG. Do I think he should have been more forceful? Sure, but none of us were sitting in that office with him making decisions of national security that we're not privy to. I don't care for him, but then, I can't really judge because I'm not able to see enough of what went on behind the scenes to judge.

Fwiw, if I recall correctly, on more than a few occasions, he was at odds with Trump when he was AG, but as AG, you're pretty limited in terms of what you can make public about those interactions. It is what it is.

I vehemently disagree with almost all of this.....they are not the exception and just because someone is educated or has a good/professional job does not mean they don't have mental issues....you kind of give it away here, warped prejudices and worldviews are almost always connected to an inability or resistance to critical thinking....that by itself is a mental issue IMO.....

Barr was at odds with Trump only when he felt it endangered himself or put him in a no win position, he knows what those look like, he's not the only one that is scum but he is at the top of the list....

 

[DaveXA]

I vehemently disagree with almost all of this.....they are not the exception and just because someone is educated or has a good/professional job does not mean they don't have mental issues....you kind of give it away here, warped prejudices and worldviews are almost always connected to an inability or resistance to critical thinking....that by itself is a mental issue IMO.....

Barr was at odds with Trump only when he felt it endangered himself or put him in a no win position, he knows what those look like, he's not the only one that is scum but he is at the top of the list....

A lack of critical thinking is just what it is, it's not indicative of mental health, otherwise you'd see that seep into other parts of their like. Like I stated, at least in my anecdotal experiences, they're otherwise fairly normal people. People have blind spots. I certainly have had mine. Never meant I was mentally deficient. You're conflating warped political worldviews and mental illness. They are absolutely not the same thing. Poor mental health can certainly color people's thinking, but it's really not the driver you're suggesting it is.

With that said, I stand by what I've said and we'll just have to respectfully disagree here.

 

[dtc]

A lack of critical thinking is just what it is, it's not indicative of mental health, otherwise you'd see that seep into other parts of their like. Like I stated, at least in my anecdotal experiences, they're otherwise fairly normal people. People have blind spots. I certainly have had mine. Never meant I was mentally deficient. You're conflating warped political worldviews and mental illness. They are absolutely not the same thing. Poor mental health can certainly color people's thinking, but it's really not the driver you're suggesting it is.

With that said, I stand by what I've said and we'll just have to respectfully disagree here.

Instead of referring to them as mentally ill, would it better suit you to just call them stupid, insanely impressionable, mentally weak, racist or self-serving hypocrites?

I mean, don't you have to have some mental deficiency in order to malleable as to believe much of what's coming from today's right wing?

 

[DaveXA]

Instead of referring to them as mentally ill, would it better suit you to just call them stupid, insanely impressionable, mentally weak, racist or self-serving hypocrites?

I mean, don't you have to have some mental deficiency in order to malleable as to believe much of what's coming from today's right wing?

No, you don't. But I'm fine with calling it whatever else. Just not mental illness. Their brains work just fine. They just don't know any better in a lot of cases. And their biases, i.e. racism does guide their thinking and worldview. Has nothing to do with mental illness. It could be caused by mental illness in some cases, but it's just mostly prejudiced people who generally don't have the self-awareness to recognize it. Either that, or they're willing racists or what have you. Believe it or not, there are otherwise normal people who are unapologetic racists. I know a few too many like that unfortunately.

 

[Optimus Prime]

As 2022 wound down, a few lonely Democrats floated an idea: With House Republicans threatening to use the debt limit to extort concessions from Democrats in 2023, why not disable this tactic for good? Their suggestion went nowhere. Some Democrats even seemed to relish the coming confrontation, apparently believing it could be “won.”


Now the country is hurtling toward defaulting on its debts, and those who demanded action are being vindicated. Democrats are second-guessing the assumption that pressure can make Republicans raise the debt limit without conditions, as recognition sinks in that Republicans really may be willing to allow default, bringing economic catastrophe.


“When you get to the intersection of sane and crazy, they generally go crazy every time,” Democratic strategist James Carville told us. “Why would anybody think they wouldn’t do this?”

Democrats appear to be acting on this dawning recognition, albeit belatedly. In the House, they’ve initiated the “discharge petition” process, which could ultimately force a vote on a debt ceiling increase without the permission of Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.).


What’s more, the New York Times reports that some Biden advisers are debating a constitutional way out: Under the theory that not paying the United States’ bills would violate the 14th Amendment, the Treasury Department could simply keep paying them after the debt limit is breached.


This immediate situation is entirely the fault of Republicans. They raised the debt limit three times under the last GOP president without incident.

It’s ludicrous to demand concessions — especially spending cuts that are so radical in scale that Republicans refuse to go into detail about them — in exchange for covering spending that Congress already appropriated.

But if Republicans are really this reckless — and they are — Democrats still don’t seem prepared on a fundamental level to accept the full consequences of this.

There are no signs President Biden will even contemplate the 14th Amendment solution or any other one outside traditional processes. The White House press secretary flatly declared that Biden “will not entertain scenarios” that don’t involve Congress lifting the debt limit.


That suggests the White House still seems to be trying to locate the magical level of pressure on Republicans — again, that this standoff can be “won.”

Biden has invited congressional leaders to negotiate on a budget next week — while insisting the debt limit itself is nonnegotiable — which still seems like a search for the correct display of “reasonableness” to enable Democrats to blame Republicans for default……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/03/democrats-debt-ceiling-republicans/

 

[SFIDC3]

You're conflating warped political worldviews and mental illness.

Mental issues do not equal mental "illness".....I also have friends like you describe, it's hard to remain friends with folks like that but I like to believe it has to do with how they were raised and some just never get past that....I could have easily gone down that path as my own folks had their own "issues" with race and were staunch R's pretty much all through my childhood.....Thankfully they both evolved, at least to some extent.....