What happens to the Democratic Party now? (1 Viewer)

[Heathen]

I’m sure much of us are having 2016 flashbacks this morning with a sick feeling to our stomachs..

2 of the last 3 elections Democrats have lost to a far right demagogue

Harris didn’t get close in many states to even Biden’s performance. We could very well lose the Presidency, Senate AND House depending on results the next few days…..

What went wrong?
What could’ve been done better?
What can we change in the future to ensure voters are motivated like they were when Obama was elected?

Democrats have no choice but to admit there’s a huge problem with some aspect of their platform— and to do a deep introspection of what’s going wrong..

 

[bird]

The destruction of the education system by RW religionists as well as libertarian crybabies will resolve the problem of education. The goal is mindless drones indoctrinated in theomythology.

 

[UriUT]

Education cannot simply focus on memorizing facts or excelling at tests. It must prioritize teaching critical thinking and the ability to evaluate sources. In an age where we are constantly inundated with information, the true value of education lies in equipping people with the skills to analyze, filter, and process this flood of data effectively.

You are preaching to the choir. I don't think Americans understand the essence of higher education, and to a lesser extent in k-12. The influence of the Renaissance on our higher education is to create better humans, ie the humanities. Most won't realize why english majors are required to take science courses or engineers are required to take literature. Critical thinking is an aspect of english courses throughout k-12, when we're taught to express an argument through essays. We learn math and science to develop our analytical skills. So on and so on.

My argument is that despite this, we have those that are trapped in a misinformation bubble. You can argue that we need better education, but some of those skills you listed aren't strictly learned in the classroom. Part of the growth a person gains from attending colleges is exposure to different types of people and thought. We have a self described rn that was duped by this crazy idea that this biden admin provides gender affirming care to migrants. I'm sure you and I have been duped by misinformation as well, and I don't think that's abnormal. So what sets those that are less susceptible to misinformation? I don't think the answer strictly lies in just more education. And don't get me wrong, we should most definitely provide the best education for analytical and critical thinking. It's foundational. The perniciousness of misinformation isn't just education level. There's a willingness there. There's malicious intents in those that advance them.

I don't have an answer. I'm exhausted observing this rw echo chamber in some of my highly educated family members. I can't rationalize it. Some beliefs goes against their knowledge, and it's disturbing. Medical knowledge!!!

I'll end with this, and I know it's a beaten path. Late 1800s/early 1900s Germany was considered the jewel of liberal thought and scientific thinking. Highly progressive. So what made Fritz Haber join the nationalist movement and develop mustard gas? There were intellectuals that joined the nazi movements. Nobel laureates. Einstein was the exception.

 

[Dragon]

Haber may not be the best example. He was Jewish and never a nazi and fled Germany and died in Switzerland in 1934. Yes he invented mustard gas used by the Germans in WWI but he is just one of many progressiv scientists who has both done good (fertilizer) and bad (weapons for their nations fighting a war)

What I’ve observed among friends and family is that a sense of entitlement often serves as a trigger for falling prey to ultra-right-wing propaganda. It’s as if they believe society "owes" them something they feel they didn’t receive—completely overlooking the fact that their own actions, or lack thereof, may be the real reason for their struggles. This mindset seems to stem from a form of self-delusion, allowing them to adopt a victim mentality rather than putting in the effort or making the changes necessary to succeed.


Both Hitler and Goebbels fit this pattern as well. Hitler believed he was a great artist, yet his paintings failed to attract buyers, leading to resentment toward the establishment that rejected him. Similarly, Goebbels, despite earning a degree in philosophy, faced repeated rejections for his written works, as publishers showed little interest in his books. This frustration forced him to take a job as a caller on the Berlin Stock Exchange, a position far removed from his intellectual aspirations. These personal failures likely fueled their grievances and played a role in shaping their radical ideologies.

 

[UriUT]

Haber may not be the best example. He was Jewish and never a nazi and fled Germany and died in Switzerland in 1934. Yes he invented mustard gas used by the Germans in WWI but he is just one of many progressiv scientists who has both done good (fertilizer) and bad (weapons for their nations fighting a war)

What I’ve observed among friends and family is that a sense of entitlement often serves as a trigger for falling prey to ultra-right-wing propaganda. It’s as if they believe society "owes" them something they feel they didn’t receive—completely overlooking the fact that their own actions, or lack thereof, may be the real reason for their struggles. This mindset seems to stem from a form of self-delusion, allowing them to adopt a victim mentality rather than putting in the effort or making the changes necessary to succeed.


Both Hitler and Goebbels fit this pattern as well. Hitler believed he was a great artist, yet his paintings failed to attract buyers, leading to resentment toward the establishment that rejected him. Similarly, Goebbels, despite earning a degree in philosophy, faced repeated rejections for his written works, as publishers showed little interest in his books. This frustration forced him to take a job as a caller on the Berlin Stock Exchange, a position far removed from his intellectual aspirations. These personal failures likely fueled their grievances and played a role in shaping their radical ideologies.

I should've separated the pre-wwi and pre-wwii sentiments. My point was that just because one is intelligent and well-educated isn't an immunity from misinformation, and in particular to haber, nationalist sentiments. Haber is a prime example because of his intense sense of patriotism. He wasn't a practicing jew, but ironically was dismissed from the army despite his contribution because Hitler declared that no jews can serve in the military. Even after wwi, he developed the gas that later was used in the holocaust. He saved billions with extracting gaseous nitrogen, but his intense beliefs led him to atrocities that killed millions. Einstein had a falling out with him because of his involvement with the military.

Yeah, the relationship between entitlement and grievances may be an explanation. I just don't understand how someone tells you to your face that you are subhuman, and you still support them. Jews that collaborated with the nazis. Hispanics voting for Trump. 52% of white women voting to lose abortion access. Muslims getting duped.....sigh.

 

[Dragon]

I attended school in Tennessee for four years, less than 40 miles from Oak Ridge, a place I visited twice. The scientists there understood—or at least suspected—the devastating impact the bombs they were developing could cause. Yet many of them believed it was their patriotic duty to contribute to ending the war. Notably, J. Robert Oppenheimer, who played a key role in the Manhattan Project, later faced the loss of his job and security clearance for opposing the development of the hydrogen bomb. This raises a profound question: where do we draw the line between patriotism and crimes against humanity?


People who belong to an ethnic or political group that is being persecuted yet still support the persecutor often live in a false reality. They convince themselves that their support makes them "special" or immune to the persecution, ignoring the broader systemic oppression their group faces. This delusion can stem from a desire for acceptance or a misguided belief that aligning with the oppressor offers protection.

 

[UriUT]

I attended school in Tennessee for four years, less than 40 miles from Oak Ridge, a place I visited twice. The scientists there understood—or at least suspected—the devastating impact the bombs they were developing could cause. Yet many of them believed it was their patriotic duty to contribute to ending the war. Notably, J. Robert Oppenheimer, who played a key role in the Manhattan Project, later faced the loss of his job and security clearance for opposing the development of the hydrogen bomb. This raises a profound question: where do we draw the line between patriotism and crimes against humanity?


People who belong to an ethnic or political group that is being persecuted yet still support the persecutor often live in a false reality. They convince themselves that their support makes them "special" or immune to the persecution, ignoring the broader systemic oppression their group faces. This delusion can stem from a desire for acceptance or a misguided belief that aligning with the oppressor offers protection.

Yeah, I wouldn't know the answer to that. I am aware of herd mentality, but a moral guide is complex and I wouldn't know if I would even pass mustard myself. One never knows until we're faced with that dilemma. Nolan's Oppenheimer does such a good job expressing this question. It's been a while, and I don't know if it's been discredited. The experiment was to measure an individual's moral scale. A student was told that if he pressed a button, another student would feel shock in the next room. The highest level was an individual would do the right thing despite being ordered by an authority. It's an interesting experiment. I would hope we all would be at that highest level, but that's not reality, sadly.

 

[DaveXA]

The destruction of the education system by RW religionists as well as libertarian crybabies will resolve the problem of education. The goal is mindless drones indoctrinated in theomythology.

Maybe things have changed but growing up, and having a lot of experience in both private and public school settings, the theomythology isn't accurate...at all. Not only that, my kids went to both public and private schools over the years and the core curriculum really wasn't all that different.

The religion courses of course were, but even those were not a large part of the curriculum. Like one class out of 6 or 7 in a day.

Where people are being brainwashed or not taught well is typically those who are home schooled or indoctrinated in their churches through church activities.

That said, both public and private schools have their issues getting kids educated. It has more to do with the teachers overall strategies and the emphasis on passing tests rather than teaching critical thinking skills. It's a broader problem than any "religion bad!" mantra.

The sooner we focus on changing the approach to teaching kids towards critical thinking and less emphasis on rote memory to pass exams, the better off we'll be.

 

[bird]

Maybe things have changed but growing up, and having a lot of experience in both private and public school settings, the theomythology isn't accurate...at all. Not only that, my kids went to both public and private schools over the years and the core curriculum really wasn't all that different.

The religion courses of course were, but even those were not a large part of the curriculum. Like one class out of 6 or 7 in a day.

Where people are being brainwashed or not taught well is typically those who are home schooled or indoctrinated in their churches through church activities.

That said, both public and private schools have their issues getting kids educated. It has more to do with the teachers overall strategies and the emphasis on passing tests rather than teaching critical thinking skills. It's a broader problem than any "religion bad!" mantra.

The sooner we focus on changing the approach to teaching kids towards critical thinking and less emphasis on rote memory to pass exams, the better off we'll be.

Theomythology is, by way of my definition, the civic religion of exceptionalism and T.I.N.A. capitalism. I use theomythology to describe civic mythology that has been raised to a level of unassailable/not to be criticized by, again, those who use agitprop for their own purposes.

Religion itself in this country has a unique position. It is protected and, in many instances, demands a privileged place in order to stand above by standing on the neck of those deemed a threat or less than human.

As for teachers? I don’t have personal experience as a teacher but am married to a now retired teacher who worked in Catholic and public schools for her entire career of 30+ years. Yes, there are teachers who fall short. There are administrators and school boards that fall short. Most critically, there are citizens who run the entire gamut from supportive to arrogantly dismissive of those who work as educators. These are the most dangerous as the are easy targets for charlatans like Trump, McMahon, DeVos et al who have no forking clue about education.

 

[DaveXA]

Theomythology is, by way of my definition, the civic religion of exceptionalism and T.I.N.A. capitalism. I use theomythology to describe civic mythology that has been raised to a level of unassailable/not to be criticized by, again, those who use agitprop for their own purposes.

Religion itself in this country has a unique position. It is protected and, in many instances, demands a privileged place in order to stand above by standing on the neck of those deemed a threat or less than human.

As for teachers? I don’t have personal experience as a teacher but am married to a now retired teacher who worked in Catholic and public schools for her entire career of 30+ years. Yes, there are teachers who fall short. There are administrators and school boards that fall short. Most critically, there are citizens who run the entire gamut from supportive to arrogantly dismissive of those who work as educators. These are the most dangerous as the are easy targets for charlatans like Trump, McMahon, DeVos et al who have no forking clue about education.

I think it's more about two things, one the long standing push to focus on getting kids to pass tests instead of teaching critical thinking. That's more of a political and administrative problem than a teacher problem, and this approach really handcuffs teachers' ability to teach kids. Two, teachers are really poorly equipped to teach critical thinking skills because they get very little in the way of support. Many have to scrounge for supplies, struggle to make ends meet and training isn't great.

I do agree a lot of the public is ignorant of the challenges teachers face and a lot of parents resent teachers because they think they know better about how to teach their kids, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth.

Teachers get unfairly maligned all too often and I don't envy what they do at all. It's a thankless profession far too often.

I don't think it's the teachers' fault for the state of the education system at all. The blame goes to the administrators and politicians who are bent on molding it into their own ideals rather than what's best for the kids and the future of our country.

 

[bird]

I think it's more about two things, one the long standing push to focus on getting kids to pass tests instead of teaching critical thinking. That's more of a political and administrative problem than a teacher problem, and this approach really handcuffs teachers' ability to teach kids. Two, teachers are really poorly equipped to teach critical thinking skills because they get very little in the way of support. Many have to scrounge for supplies, struggle to make ends meet and training isn't great.

I do agree a lot of the public is ignorant of the challenges teachers face and a lot of parents resent teachers because they think they know better about how to teach their kids, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth.

Teachers get unfairly maligned all too often and I don't envy what they do at all. It's a thankless profession far too often.

I don't think it's the teachers' fault for the state of the education system at all. The blame goes to the administrators and politicians who are bent on molding it into their own ideals rather than what's best for the kids and the future of our country.

I agree regarding administrators and politicians. It is also about self-proclaimed experts and/or activists. Think Moms For Liberty. Think Dover Bd. Of Ed. Education is viewed as something it is not. It is viewed from the standpoint of two things: capitalism meaning, in this case, business and the means to implant methods of control.

What we can see is a direct result of the worship of the segment of theomythology called T.I.N.A. capitalism with the help of Reagan’s insipid, subversive and dangerously stupid “government is the problem” sound bite. Previous to that corporations were viewed somewhat with a jaundiced eye or perhaps as being benign. After the rise of Reaganism business was viewed as some sort of superhero and government was the bungling, evil villain. While the founders may have had differences of opinion regarding how government was to be applied they never doubted the need for it especially after the failure of the articles of confederation.

Of late, we see the lie that profit should drive every decision and that the results will be wonderful. In point of opinion, infinite growth is completely and totally destructive. The folding in of education via the profit motive, the drone need and the merger of religionist politics. This is creating a wave of greed and agitprop whose goal is destruction of public education and the rise of the servant economy along with the attempt to legislate religionist politics and a priest/priest-adjacent class.

Education is to be a bulwark against this. The attacks on it are real and are becoming increasingly violent.