Walz - Vance Debate (2 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

A couple weeks out. I fully expect another dominant performance
=================
Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, the Democratic vice-presidential nominee, has accelerated his preparations for his Oct. 1 debate with Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio), participating in policy sessions and mock debates in his home state and on the road.

Walz’s team has enlisted Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, in his personal capacity, to play Vance in debate rehearsals, reprising his role from four years ago when he stood in for then-Vice President Mike Pence during Kamala Harris’s practice sessions, according to multiple people familiar with the debate process who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe confidential preparations.


Fueled by Diet Mountain Dew and dressed in casual wear — cargo pants and a T-shirt — Walz was in a Minneapolis hotel Wednesday, practicing with Buttigieg and taking notes on a yellow legal pad, the people said.

The two have not yet held a full 90-minute mock debate, although they are expected to do so closer to Oct. 1, when Walz and Vance will meet in New York for the debate hosted by CBS News.

Strategists for both parties say vice-presidential debates rarely affect the presidential race in a significant way.

But with Harris and former president Donald Trump having held their one and probably only debate instead of three, and the undercard coming five weeks before Election Day, it may carry higher stakes……….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/19/tim-walz-debate-prep-vance/

 

[efil4]

Some of the polling/focus group data after the debate - FWIW

MAGA candidates are so consumed with pleasing Trump, they simply cannot reach outside the box of electorate that would give them the advantage.

Every rally, every debate and every town hall is designed to appeal to the base supporters. Its not attempting to bring in moderates or independents. You are either with us or against us type machination. No in between for them. So he gets the same 5000 ppl to show up to rally. The same 1000 ppl to buy his trinkets. The same 100 ppl to stump for him. And its why his message hasnt changed in 8 years.

too bad, so sad....

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[MT15]

Good metaphor

 

[Optimus Prime]

That’s the kid from the sixth sense

 

[efil4]

Harris/Walz campaign new ad-

 

[Lapaz]

I've only watched about 1/2 of the debate, but my take was that Vance improved his image a little bit. Vance clearly was a more skilled debater. Walz did about as expected, which was good, but not great. Vance lied quite a bit, but not as much as Trump, so the fact checking wasn't as overwhelmingly needed. Vance came across as a much better person than he has on the campaign trail, while Walz came off as a very likeable person. The biggest problem that I saw was that Walz seemed to try to evade answering questions a few times, but he eventually got around to answering most questions, however the moderators had to follow-up to get the answer on Tiananmen Square. Walz started off shaky, but did much better as he went along. I think as the fact checking is publicized, and Vance is shown to have been much more dishonest, while Walz was mostly honest, Walz will at worst have pulled a draw. That's good, considering how skilled Vance is at debating, but I think if people compare what he said on stage compared to on the campaign, they'll realize that he is disingenuous, while Walz is very genuine. In the end, I think Vance may have slightly benefited his ticket, but later analysis will eliminate that benefit, and may even hurt the ticket.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I've only watched about 1/2 of the debate, but my take was that Vance improved his image a little bit. Vance clearly was a more skilled debater. Walz did about as expected, which was good, but not great. Vance lied quite a bit, but not as much as Trump, so the fact checking wasn't as overwhelmingly needed. Vance came across as a much better person than he has on the campaign trail, while Walz came off as a very likeable person. The biggest problem that I saw was that Walz seemed to try to evade answering questions a few times, but he eventually got around to answering most questions, however the moderators had to follow-up to get the answer on Tiananmen Square. Walz started off shaky, but did much better as he went along. I think as the fact checking is publicized, and Vance is shown to have been much more dishonest, while Walz was mostly honest, Walz will at worst have pulled a draw. That's good, considering how skilled Vance is at debating, but I think if people compare what he said on stage compared to on the campaign, they'll realize that he is disingenuous, while Walz is very genuine. In the end, I think Vance may have slightly benefited his ticket, but later analysis will eliminate that benefit, and may even hurt the ticket.

I found it frustrating that they took the time to ask Walz about Tiananmen Square, but they didn't ask Vance about any of his extremist views that he routinely share on his alt-right podcast visits. Vance gets the same treatment as trump by the media and that is a free pass for their extremist ideology.

 

[coldseat]

I wish more people took high school civics class.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I wish more people took high school civics class.

...and yet, campaigning against the Harris administration is the trump/vance main campaign strategy and its working! Harris should be leading in all the polls by a landslide, but...

 

[coldseat]

...and yet, campaigning against the Harris administration is the trump/vance main campaign strategy and its working! Harris should be leading in all the polls by a landslide, but...

I don't really know that is working.

The polls aren't really telling us much other than it will be a close election. It shouldn't be, but you can't talk common sense into half of our electorate, so this is what we have. I think Harris is going to win, her campaign is still trending well and they haven't lost any ground. It doesn't seem to me that anything Trump/Vance have done has gained them any ground either.

 

[Booker]

I was frustrated by a couple of things. First, the early question about inflation named housing as one of the contributors, but made no mention of the impact of the pandemic, which I think any discussion of inflation needs to take into account. Second, Vance's perpetually speaking as if Harris was already the President was insulting. To my knowledge, the VP pretty much just breaks a tie in the Senate. I wish that Walz had pushed back on both of those.

Otherwise, below is what I think the Democratic argument is and should be, and it frustrates the hell out of me that this isn't being repeated every time Harris or Walz get a chance to speak on camera:

When Trump took office he inherited a thriving economy, which he then immediately took credit for, then spent four years getting in twitter fights with his only accomplishments being a tax cut that benefitted the wealthiest and far right judges that are taking away previously established rights. And when a real crisis hit, he folded, pretended it wasn't real and would magically go away. It didn't, the economy went into freefall, unemployment and civil unrest soared. Then he lost, and pretended his loss wasn't real and instigated an insurrection on the Capitol to try and overturn a free and fair election.

So when Biden and Harris took office, they inherited a nation in disarray and had to start to put the pieces back together, while also facing global inflation caused by the pandemic. Unemployment is now low, the economy is thriving, crime is down, and inflation has subsided. The policies of the Biden/Harris administration aren't the cause of the problems we face, but quite the opposite are the reason that we've been able to turn things around.

 

[LA - L.A.]

There was a strange feeling as the vice-presidential debate got under way in the CBSNews studios on Tuesday night that only intensified as 90 minutes of detailed policy discussion unfolded: was the United States in danger of regaining its sanity?

After weeks and months of being assailed by Donald Trump’s dystopian evocation of a country on the verge of self-destruction, amplified by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s dire warnings of democracy in peril, here was something very different. The two vice-presidential nominees were embracing that most endangered of American political species: agreement.

“Tim, I actually think I agree with you,” said JD Vance, Trump’s running mate, addressing his opposite number Tim Walz during the discussion on immigration.

“Much of what the senator said right there, I’m in agreement with him,” said Walz, the Minnesota governor and Democratic nominee, as they turned to trade policy.

It wasn’t true, of course. The two men were no closer to agreement than their bosses, who in their own presidential debate last month showed themselves to be worlds apart.

But on Tuesday it was as if the CBS News studio in midtown Manhattan had been transported back to a prelapsarian – or at least, pre-Maga – times. To an era when politicians could be civil, and to get on you didn’t have to castigate your opponent as an enemy of the people.

For Vance the metamorphosis was especially striking. He is, after all, running mate to the architect of “American carnage”.

For his own part, the senator from Ohio has spread malicious untruths about legal-resident Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, eating people’s cats and dogs. Not to mention that he’s the “childless cat-ladies” guy.

An unrecognisable Vance emerged on the New York stage. This one listened respectfully to his debating partner, spoke in whole and largely measured sentences, and went so far as to admit his own fallibility – three qualities that the former president rarely emulates.

Vance had reason to present himself differently from Trump, perhaps. At 40, to Trump’s 78, he has the future to think about – his own future.

But his affable demeanor was also artifice. When it came to the content of what he said, the Republican vice-presidential nominee was as economical with the truth as his overseer.

He lied with abandon, in fact. He just did it with a silken tongue.

He talked about the vice-president presiding over an “open border” with Mexico when numbers of border-crossers are actually at a four-year low. He claimed he had not supported a national abortion ban – oh yes he did, repeatedly during his 2022 senatorial race.

On the Middle East crisis, he accused the “Kamala Harris administration” of handing Iran $100bn in the form of unfrozen assets – not true. It was $55bn, and it was negotiated under Barack Obama.

Perhaps most egregiously, he said Trump had “salvaged” the Affordable Care Act (ACA), Obama’s wildly popular healthcare insurance scheme commonly known as Obamacare. “Salvaged” was an interesting choice of word to apply to Trump, who tried 60 times to destroy the ACA without offering any alternative.

Yet it would have taken an attentive viewer to see behind Vance’s smooth comportment to the lies he was purveying. The former tech investor and bestselling author of Hillbilly Elegy looked comfortable on stage and in his own skin, presenting himself as the reasonable Trump, a Maga lion in sheep’s clothing……..

Walz and Vance embrace an endangered US political species: agreement

A Maga lion in sheep’s clothing and a coach with debate nerves brought brief hope of civility returning to politics

www.theguardian.com

Lying is uncivil, no matter how politely you lie. When someone's running a con on you they're going to be charming, because that's how they gain your trust before screwing you over. I'm sick and tired of seeing people treat people like Vance as if they are civil and well behaved just because they tell lies in a friendly and polite way.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Lol

Vance shot that glance every time Walz was speaking. As the night went on, the glance got obviously more angry and aggressive.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I always find what Nixon has to say interesting. Although I definitely agree with the guy who responded.

And here it is again, Vance "lied through his teeth. But it doesn’t matter." That twitter twit couldn't be more wrong about that. The truth forking matters. Lying forking matters.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Dive into hard core MAGA social media. A lot of them hated Vance’s debate. They wanted Vance to expose Harris as the devil.

Instead he was on a personal rehabilitation campaign aimed at 2028. He wanted to become the Great White Hope of the @DouthatNYT crowd and the wealthy donors who know which fork to pick up.

Looking at Vance’s history, it should shock no one he put his own ambitions first.

I think Thiel is betting on Vance taking the mantle from Trump if Trump loses. I think that's a bad bet. The more Vance gets attention, the more he will give into the more destructive impulses of his narcissistic personalty disorder, just like Trump has. Vance can't control his impulses for 4 years. He was starting to struggle with controlling himself after just one and half hours last night.

I really hope Trump sees the debate last night as Vance putting himself first, because that would cause a lot of friction between Trump and Vance.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I think Thiel is betting on Vance taking the mantle from Trump if Trump loses. I think that's a bad bet. The more Vance gets attention, the more he will give into the more destructive impulses of his narcissistic personalty disorder, just like Trump has. Vance can't control his impulses for 4 years. He was starting to struggle with controlling himself after just one and half hours last night.

I really hope Trump sees the debate last night as Vance putting himself first, because that would cause a lot of friction between Trump and Vance.

I kind of hope that Harris, Walz and the media poke the bear a bit by repeatedly saying how much better Vance performed than Trump did

"Vance came across the way Trump wanted to and isn't capable of"

 

[LA - L.A.]

I wish more people took high school civics class.

High school civics classes used to be mandatory for every student. Very few schools even offer it anymore. That's a big reason why our democracy is in peril.

 

[coldseat]

High school civics classes used to be mandatory for every student. Very few schools even offer it anymore. That's a big reason why our democracy is in peril.

It was required when I was in 9th grade at John Ehret in Marrero back in '89. My teacher was one of the few male teachers I had through all of my primary education until I got to LSU and started taking engineering courses. It was a good course and he was a good teacher.