Walz - Vance Debate (3 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

A couple weeks out. I fully expect another dominant performance
=================
Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, the Democratic vice-presidential nominee, has accelerated his preparations for his Oct. 1 debate with Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio), participating in policy sessions and mock debates in his home state and on the road.

Walz’s team has enlisted Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, in his personal capacity, to play Vance in debate rehearsals, reprising his role from four years ago when he stood in for then-Vice President Mike Pence during Kamala Harris’s practice sessions, according to multiple people familiar with the debate process who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe confidential preparations.


Fueled by Diet Mountain Dew and dressed in casual wear — cargo pants and a T-shirt — Walz was in a Minneapolis hotel Wednesday, practicing with Buttigieg and taking notes on a yellow legal pad, the people said.

The two have not yet held a full 90-minute mock debate, although they are expected to do so closer to Oct. 1, when Walz and Vance will meet in New York for the debate hosted by CBS News.

Strategists for both parties say vice-presidential debates rarely affect the presidential race in a significant way.

But with Harris and former president Donald Trump having held their one and probably only debate instead of three, and the undercard coming five weeks before Election Day, it may carry higher stakes……….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/19/tim-walz-debate-prep-vance/

 

[SamAndreas]

OK I just got done watching it, I use "pause" when I want to.

Vance reminds me of Jello. Lemon or Lime, I don't know. He certainly isn't a watermelon flavored kind of guy.

This debate didn't move the needle. Now we can go on to tomorrow.

 

[MT15]

FWIW, CNN did this poll. Vance may have helped himself by appearing reasonable (still lying his arse off though) but Walz really, really helped himself by appearing earnest and sincere.

 

[MT15]

 

[Optimus Prime]

There was a strange feeling as the vice-presidential debate got under way in the CBSNews studios on Tuesday night that only intensified as 90 minutes of detailed policy discussion unfolded: was the United States in danger of regaining its sanity?

After weeks and months of being assailed by Donald Trump’s dystopian evocation of a country on the verge of self-destruction, amplified by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s dire warnings of democracy in peril, here was something very different. The two vice-presidential nominees were embracing that most endangered of American political species: agreement.

“Tim, I actually think I agree with you,” said JD Vance, Trump’s running mate, addressing his opposite number Tim Walz during the discussion on immigration.

“Much of what the senator said right there, I’m in agreement with him,” said Walz, the Minnesota governor and Democratic nominee, as they turned to trade policy.

It wasn’t true, of course. The two men were no closer to agreement than their bosses, who in their own presidential debate last month showed themselves to be worlds apart.

But on Tuesday it was as if the CBS News studio in midtown Manhattan had been transported back to a prelapsarian – or at least, pre-Maga – times. To an era when politicians could be civil, and to get on you didn’t have to castigate your opponent as an enemy of the people.

For Vance the metamorphosis was especially striking. He is, after all, running mate to the architect of “American carnage”.

For his own part, the senator from Ohio has spread malicious untruths about legal-resident Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, eating people’s cats and dogs. Not to mention that he’s the “childless cat-ladies” guy.

An unrecognisable Vance emerged on the New York stage. This one listened respectfully to his debating partner, spoke in whole and largely measured sentences, and went so far as to admit his own fallibility – three qualities that the former president rarely emulates.

Vance had reason to present himself differently from Trump, perhaps. At 40, to Trump’s 78, he has the future to think about – his own future.

But his affable demeanor was also artifice. When it came to the content of what he said, the Republican vice-presidential nominee was as economical with the truth as his overseer.

He lied with abandon, in fact. He just did it with a silken tongue.

He talked about the vice-president presiding over an “open border” with Mexico when numbers of border-crossers are actually at a four-year low. He claimed he had not supported a national abortion ban – oh yes he did, repeatedly during his 2022 senatorial race.

On the Middle East crisis, he accused the “Kamala Harris administration” of handing Iran $100bn in the form of unfrozen assets – not true. It was $55bn, and it was negotiated under Barack Obama.

Perhaps most egregiously, he said Trump had “salvaged” the Affordable Care Act (ACA), Obama’s wildly popular healthcare insurance scheme commonly known as Obamacare. “Salvaged” was an interesting choice of word to apply to Trump, who tried 60 times to destroy the ACA without offering any alternative.

Yet it would have taken an attentive viewer to see behind Vance’s smooth comportment to the lies he was purveying. The former tech investor and bestselling author of Hillbilly Elegy looked comfortable on stage and in his own skin, presenting himself as the reasonable Trump, a Maga lion in sheep’s clothing……..

Walz and Vance embrace an endangered US political species: agreement

A Maga lion in sheep’s clothing and a coach with debate nerves brought brief hope of civility returning to politics

www.theguardian.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

Walz started out a little shaky. You can tell he was nervous. But his retort to the first question was very good. JD just sound professionally slimy.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Internet doing what it does

 

[Optimus Prime]

Maybe he thought the pink tie could help. JD Vance, the Ohio senator and Donald Trump’s running mate, clearly set out to make himself seem less creepy at Tuesday night’s vice-presidential debate, and a major target of this project was aimed at convincing women voters to like him.

Vance, after all, has what pollsters call “high unfavorables”, which is a polite way of saying that people hate his guts.

Much of this stems from Vance’s extreme and inflexible views on abortion, his hostility to childless women, and his creepy statements about families and childrearing. He had to convince women that he’s not out to hurt them or monitor their menstrual cycles; he had to try and seem kindly, empathetic, gentle.

The resulting 90 minutes felt like watching a remarkably lifelike robot try to imitate normal human emotion. He smiled. He cooed. He spoke of an anonymous woman he knew whom he said was watching, and told her: “Love ya”.

And occasionally, when he was fact-checked or received pushback on his falsehoods or distortions, the eyes of his stiff, fixed face flashed with an incandescent rage.

A generous characterization of Vance’s performance might be to call it “slick”. Vance delivered practiced answers to questions on healthcare, abortion rights, and childcare that were dense with lies and euphemism.

Asked about his call for a national abortion ban, Vance insisted that what he wanted was a national “standard” – a standard, that is, to ban it at 15 weeks.……

JD Vance’s debate lines were so polished you could forget they made no sense | Moira Donegan

Trump’s running mate had the greasy self-assurance of someone used to lying to people he thinks are stupid

www.theguardian.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

I did notice he called them by name a lot

 

[MT15]

A person on Twitter named Heather Thomas had this take. I pretty much agree with her points.

My inarticulate lib take with wine:
Vance was very smooth with the Gish Gallop strategy and totally new fake humble personality. Lots of words with no answers hoping the key negative words would stick . Very smooth with the fake concern. If he had never been on tape before in his life it would almost be semi-believable.

Weird angle not knowing who has been president for four years and bestowing the office of vice president with vast supernatural powers. Crazy claims that escalated about Trump years. Manufacturing? Wages?

I can't put Trump and "wise common sense" in the same room but he rode that myth like a pony.

Vance got ridiculous with the migrants as a panacea problem for all that ails ya and energy/drilling /seizing land as the panacea vague answer for all that ails ya. No one on earth has been outbid on a house by a migrant and his numbers were fantastical.

Vance became unlikeable when he lied about wanting a national abortion ban, Trump "saving" the ACA, and mansplaining and whining about fact checking to the point of being muted. (Women really hate that shirt)

And Vance lost the debate not being able to say Trump lost and instead lied saying Trump peacefully handed over power. Even his freezing granny couldn't save him on that whopper.

Waltz was unpolished, at times awkward. Had a rough start, made a mess of the China thing and was totally relatable. He seemed like a guy you could approach with a differing opinion and even get somewhere, not someone using a persona of "agreeing with you but...." which got to be Vance's formula schtick ad nauseam.

Waltz won on facts, Big Governor Experience and calling out lies without being shrill. He didn't need to pummel because he's not that guy. Actual clear plans without weeds.

And most importantly, he sold Kamala Harris like a champ and never took the bait Vance scattered.
And I want to live part-time in Minnesota, now.

 

[MT15]

I think tonight makes it more likley Trump does another debate. Vance did better then him. His ego can't take it.

You’re correct that he will hate that Vance did better than he did. However, he just pulled out of the 60 Minutes interview that all major presidential candidates have done for over 50 years. He’s not going to do anything other than Fox, NewsMax, OAN etc. because he can’t. Harris exposed him so badly, I really think he won’t do any more appearances that aren’t entirely friendly.

 

[MT15]

Lol

 

[Optimus Prime]

Donald Trump offered his own minute-by-minute takes of Tuesday night’s vice presidential debate, with multiple typical all-caps statements and scathing, personal attacks on Governor Tim Walz.

The former president made several posts on his platform Truth Social in quick succession, responding to answers from Walz, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, which he branded as “all TOTAL BS!”

During the CBS debate, both Walz and Trump’s running mate JD Vance were quizzed on hot-button issues including abortion, economy, immigration and gun control.

“Why isn’t Walz answering the question about his LIES?” Trump fumed around 45 minutes in. “He does ‘talk a lot,’ but it’s all TOTAL BS!”

Later, hyping up his running mate he added: “JD Vance just CRUSHED Tampon Tim with the FACTS. America was GREAT when I was President, and we will Make America Great Again after we win on November 5th!”

“Tampon Tim” is Trump’s vulgar nickname for Walz, which references his stance in favor of access to female reproductive healthcare.

After Vance came under fire for Trump’s stance on abortion, the former president wrote: “EVERYONE KNOWS I WOULD NOT SUPPORT A FEDERAL ABORTION BAN, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AND WOULD, IN FACT, VETO IT, BECAUSE IT IS UP TO THE STATES TO DECIDE BASED ON THE WILL OF THEIR VOTERS (THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!).”………

Trump shares rapid-fire, all-caps reactions on Truth Social during Vance-Walz debate

Walz and Trump’s running mate JD Vance were quizzed on hot-button issues including abortion, economy, immigration and gun control

www.independent.co.uk

 

[efil4]

didnt see this exchange last night but Walzs' line " thats why Mike Pence isnt on this stage" was brilliant.

( about 2020 election - Vance refusing to acknowledge Trump lost )

 

[MT15]

I always find what Nixon has to say interesting. Although I definitely agree with the guy who responded.

 

[MT15]

Dive into hard core MAGA social media. A lot of them hated Vance’s debate. They wanted Vance to expose Harris as the devil.

Instead he was on a personal rehabilitation campaign aimed at 2028. He wanted to become the Great White Hope of the @DouthatNYT crowd and the wealthy donors who know which fork to pick up.

Looking at Vance’s history, it should shock no one he put his own ambitions first.

 

[efil4]

I always find what Nixon has to say interesting. Although I definitely agree with the guy who responded.

Walz has no designs on being POTUS- he is true to who he is, to a fault ( for "electability" to the highest office )

That may change a bit over the next 4 years after being surrounded by polished politicians, but i get the sense that his desire is more micro than macro.

Vance, on the other hand, has exactly what a politician must have- the ability to compartmentalize and eschew all your ethics and morals for personal successes. I could absolutely see him running in 2028 IF, and thats a big IF, the MAGA GOP will still want him in 4 years. He gonna have to sell every inch of his soul to be their guy.

And honestly, i dont know he has any more soul to give. So he will wing it.

 

[efil4]

Dive into hard core MAGA social media. A lot of them hated Vance’s debate. They wanted Vance to expose Harris as the devil.

Instead he was on a personal rehabilitation campaign aimed at 2028. He wanted to become the Great White Hope of the @DouthatNYT crowd and the wealthy donors who know which fork to pick up.

Looking at Vance’s history, it should shock no one he put his own ambitions first.

LOL i just said that! haha. Except here, not on twitter lolol

I knew this was more about him than VP. And i also figured that MAGAs will turn on him once this L is in the books Nov 4. The question is can he ramp up to get back into their good graces or has he sold all of soul already?

 

[MT15]

Some of the polling/focus group data after the debate - FWIW