Tyre Nichols killing by Memphis police (1 Viewer)

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    Lapaz

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    I wanted to discuss the odd statistical anomaly about the races of the 5 cops that killed Tryre Nichols. I looked up the demographics of the Memphis police department, and 67% are white, 9% hispanic, and only 13% are black. That's only 89%, so I guess the rest are either a smaller racial group such as asians, or they didn't declare a race, in which case they are probably of mixed race. The 5 cops that were charged were all clearly black, not mixed race. I'm not a statistical expert, but I think the odds that all of the cops would be clearly black are 0.13^5, which is a 0.0037% chance of all cops being black, without any other intervening factors. It got me wondering about whether this extremely unlikely statistical anomaly could've happened without some type of internal Memphis policy. There could be other explanations, but I have a suspicion that it has to do with an internal decision within the Memphis police department to match the cop's race to the the suspect's race in order to try to avoid some of the racial bias claims that have been levied on other police departments. I haven't heard this anywhere, but I'm expecting this angle to be explored. If the Memphis police department is using such a policy, I blame it on our society making everything so racial that it is affecting how the police department decides to assign cops to avoid bad perceptions.

    I'm also wondering if there will be claims that the cops were charged more quickly because they were black, whereas if the cops had been white, some may claim that they would not have been charged as quickly. Just after I wrote this, I heard a couple of blacks making this claim on the Dan Abrams Show. They were saying that they had never seen such quick charges, so it must be because they were black. I'm looking forward to seeing the videos, because maybe they were so egregious that any delays would've been an injustice. If so, then the Memphis police department deserves praise for acting quickly, rather than spinning it as a negative.

    I'm also wondering how this incident would've been covered if the victim had been white, and all black cops. Maybe such an extremely unlikely scenario would've still been covered, but I have my doubts, because I've looked up the statistics, and more whites are killed by police than blacks, yet I don't remember the last white incident that was in the media. I know the demographics argument, but I think the problem is more of a media creation. I just heard a black lady on the Abrams show about how much more she has to be worried about her kid than a white lady. We may not even be hearing about this if the victim was white, and that over-coverage by the media is what creates the fear of cops in black mothers. Dan Abrams just told his callers that it is a media creation about black men being killed more often, but then he also went on to say that more blacks have unjustified interactions, which I think is also more of a media creation. I think the interactions are probably mostly based on suspicious actions, rather than race. Media over-coverage is the same reason that many people seem to believe that murder rates are much worse today than decades ago, despite the data indicating that murder rates have drastically declined.
     
    There was at least 1 white cop at the first encounter. You could see his arms later when helping the black cop that got pepper sprayed. The white cop said he got spray on his eyebrows. I don’t know if none of the cops at the first scene were at the 2nd scene, but I’m pretty sure that neither of those were at the 2nd scene.
    You're right. There's a white cop who was only at the first encounter.

    It's still not clear to me how many officers, if any, were at both incidents. I'm assuming some were.
     
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    I'm a little late to responding to the video, but all of your post sense the release of the video are so disappointing, yet predictable. It all amounts to excuse making for the cops. Everything that happened in the interaction between Tyree and those cops, was caused and precipitated by the cops actions. EVERYTHING! The only drug I see Tyree reacting to throughout his final encounter is adrenaline from fear of being murdered by the cops. A fear that was justified and that in the end, Tyree was right about. The cops should have never approached his car the way that they did, they should have never dragged him out of his car, they should have never beaten him and thrown him around. All of that was unjustified and illegal. And that's just the start of it, it's not even the main beating and murder. Those cops are guilty of murder and those standing around not stopping it are guilty as accessories.



    I honestly can't believe you had this experience in your past and still can't identify with the fear that Tyree had in his fatal encounter with the cops. You had to deal with one cop beating on you and throwing you around. He had to deal with 5+. How was he to think that he was going to make it out of that alive when the cops weren't even treating him as a human being. Tyree begged them take it easy, he was calm during the initial overreaction by police, he was clearly scared and not understanding what was going on, he had all the cops yelling conflicting orders in between them restraining, beating and throwing him around, and he cried out for his mother at the end. All I see in that video is a guy who's scared out of his mind. Where is the recognition of Tyree's humanity in anything that the cops did?



    This is just plain and utter bullshirt. I guess there's no presumption of innocence any more in this country. Tyree's resisting arrest does not make him guilty, it's proof of his fear of losing his life.
    My points exactly. Everything started with a questionable stop and any cop who pulls someone out of a car and throw them on the ground without a VERY good explanation (like a credible fear of being killed) , is going to get fired immediately here.

    The cops started and provoked the entire incident. There are no evidence that the young man broke any laws what so ever. If as some of you have said, he was guilty by trying to defend himself from an attack by the officers, then there is something seriously wrong with your laws. If law enforcement officers instigate a situation where innocent people becomes victims, then they should definitely be allowed to defend themself.
     
    There was at least 1 white cop at the first encounter. You could see his arms later when helping the black cop that got pepper sprayed. The white cop said he got spray on his eyebrows. I don’t know if none of the cops at the first scene were at the 2nd scene, but I’m pretty sure that neither of those were at the 2nd scene.

    Here is your white cop


    Fallout from the deadly police beating of Tyre Nichols now includes a sixth Memphis officer removed from duties, demands for more criminal charges against officers and calls for nationwide police reform. Officer Preston Hemphill “was relieved of duty with the other officers” involved in the January 7 encounter with Nichols, Memphis police Maj. Karen Rudolph said Monday.

    Body cam footage reveals Hemphill fired a Taser stun gun at Nichols and saying, “One of them prongs hit the bastage.”

    Later, Hemphill says to another officer: “I hope they stomp his arse.”

    Five other Memphis officers have been fired and face charges of second-degree murder in connection with the beating death of Nichols.

    The weird thing is that he was put on administrative leave even though his actions were just as questionable - Not fired and so far not charged with anything. Being part of an unjustifiable stop, Tazering a young man trying to protect himself and clearly promoting violence against the same young man. Maybe it is a "color" thing. I don't know
     
    I'm a little late to responding to the video, but all of your post sense the release of the video are so disappointing, yet predictable. It all amounts to excuse making for the cops. Everything that happened in the interaction between Tyree and those cops, was caused and precipitated by the cops actions. EVERYTHING! The only drug I see Tyree reacting to throughout his final encounter is adrenaline from fear of being murdered by the cops. A fear that was justified and that in the end, Tyree was right about. The cops should have never approached his car the way that they did, they should have never dragged him out of his car, they should have never beaten him and thrown him around. All of that was unjustified and illegal. And that's just the start of it, it's not even the main beating and murder. Those cops are guilty of murder and those standing around not stopping it are guilty as accessories.
    I only blame Tyre for resisting at the first encounter. The cops were too rough with him, but not excessively forceful. We don't know enough about the justification for the stop. We know what the cops said justified it, and then the police chief refuted it. I will wait to hear more.
    I honestly can't believe you had this experience in your past and still can't identify with the fear that Tyree had in his fatal encounter with the cops. You had to deal with one cop beating on you and throwing you around. He had to deal with 5+. How was he to think that he was going to make it out of that alive when the cops weren't even treating him as a human being. Tyree begged them take it easy, he was calm during the initial overreaction by police, he was clearly scared and not understanding what was going on, he had all the cops yelling conflicting orders in between them restraining, beating and throwing him around, and he cried out for his mother at the end. All I see in that video is a guy who's scared out of his mind. Where is the recognition of Tyree's humanity in anything that the cops did?
    Just because I had something similar to the first encounter, doesn't mean that I can't evaluate the errors made by Nichols. I didn't say I got beaten, because I didn't. I was roughed up by being thrown against the car, scared to death by the threat to blow my head off, and then being thrown to the ground, but I wasn't beaten. I was smart enough not to physically resist the cops, otherwise I might not have survived the incident. It is a long story, but they had probable cause, even though they were totally wrong. I was totally innocent. That didn't matter. I could've been killed, but the cop that was physically and verbally abusive to me didn't punch nor kick me. The cops at the first encounter with Nichols didn't punch nor kick him either. Had I flailed and resisted like Nichols, I seriously doubt that I would've survived my encounter with that cop. I didn't hear any cop threaten to kill Nichols at the first encounter, like the cop that abused me. My one cop would've turned into multiple cops very quickly, because they were less than a short block away, and if any were like the first cop that stopped me, the group would've killed me.

    I recognize Nichols' humanity in the 2nd encounter. He was abused horribly in the 2nd encounter, but where is the recognition of Nichols' fault in this matter in the first encounter? The 2nd encounter wouldn't have occurred if he hadn't resisted and then escaped.
    This is just plain and utter bullshirt. I guess there's no presumption of innocence any more in this country. Tyree's resisting arrest does not make him guilty, it's proof of his fear of losing his life.
    Resisting arrest is illegal, so it does make him guilty. What's more, you may think it is bullshirt, but I think most people that resist are guilty of something else, and don't want to be caught. If he was innocent, and yet afraid for his life, it's because the media and the culture have over-stated the danger to his life from the police. Almost invariably, people that get killed are resisting the police. You are far more likely to come out well by being compliant to orders.
     
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    Here is your white cop




    The weird thing is that he was put on administrative leave even though his actions were just as questionable - Not fired and so far not charged with anything. Being part of an unjustifiable stop, Tazering a young man trying to protect himself and clearly promoting violence against the same young man. Maybe it is a "color" thing. I don't know
    What's weird is that Hemphill has been punished. His actions were no where near as questionable as the cops at the second scene. Hemphill tried non-lethal means, and never hit Nichols. The worse thing Hemphill did was say he hoped they stomp him, but when I heard the video, I thought he said "I hope they stop his arse". The only justifications that I can see for punishing Hemphill is that he claimed probable cause for the stop, and then that is found to be false, or politically correct reasons, since they needed a white fall guy. What about the other black cop that got sprayed? He was at the first encounter, and there may be more from the 1st encounter.
     
    I only blame Tyre for resisting at the first encounter. The cops were too rough with him, but not excessively forceful. We don't know enough about the justification for the stop. We know what the cops said justified it, and then the police chief refuted it. I will wait to hear more.

    Just because I had something similar to the first encounter, doesn't mean that I can't evaluate the errors made by Nichols. I didn't say I got beaten, because I didn't. I was roughed up by being thrown against the car, scared to death by the threat to blow my head off, and then being thrown to the ground, but I wasn't beaten. I was smart enough not to physically resist the cops, otherwise I might not have survived the incident. It is a long story, but they had probable cause, even though they were totally wrong. I was totally innocent. That didn't matter. I could've been killed, but the cop that was physically and verbally abusive to me didn't punch nor kick me. The cops at the first encounter with Nichols didn't punch nor kick him either. Had I flailed and resisted like Nichols, I seriously doubt that I would've survived my encounter with that cop. I didn't hear any cop threaten to kill Nichols at the first encounter, like the cop that abused me. My one cop would've turned into multiple cops very quickly, because they were less than a short block away, and if any were like the first cop that stopped me, the group would've killed me.

    I recognize Nichols' humanity in the 2nd encounter. He was abused horribly in the 2nd encounter, but where is the recognition of Nichols' fault in this matter in the first encounter? The 2nd encounter wouldn't have occurred if he hadn't resisted and then escaped.

    You may think it is bullshirt, but I think most people that resist are guilty and don't want to be caught. If he was innocent, and yet afraid for his life, it's because the media and the culture have over-stated the danger to his life from the police. Almost invariably, people that get killed are resisting the police. You are far more likely to come out well by being compliant to orders.
    Nichols had every rigth to expect to be treated with respect. Instead he was unjustly stopped - pulled from his car, and thrown on the ground and Tazered by Hemphill who braged about it (1 stop) -the very person you describe as "white fall guy". He is no fall guy. He is one of the instigators of the whole thing. It starts with them. No amount of resistance to that kind of behavior from public servants should be used against the victim of police abuse.
     
    I only blame Tyre for resisting at the first encounter. The cops were too rough with him, but not excessively forceful. We don't know enough about the justification for the stop. We know what the cops said justified it, and then the police chief refuted it. I will wait to hear more.

    The cops were excessively forceful with him in the first interaction. I completely disagree with you there.

    Just because I had something similar to the first encounter, doesn't mean that I can't evaluate the errors made by Nichols. I didn't say I got beaten, because I didn't. I was roughed up by being thrown against the car, scared to death by the threat to blow my head off, and then being thrown to the ground, but I wasn't beaten. I was smart enough not to physically resist the cops, otherwise I might not have survived the incident. It is a long story, but they had probable cause, even though they were totally wrong. I was totally innocent. That didn't matter. I could've been killed, but the cop that was physically and verbally abusive to me didn't punch nor kick me. The cops at the first encounter with Nichols didn't punch nor kick him either. Had I flailed and resisted like Nichols, I seriously doubt that I would've survived my encounter with that cop. I didn't hear any cop threaten to kill Nichols at the first encounter, like the cop that abused me. My one cop would've turned into multiple cops very quickly, because they were less than a short block away, and if any were like the first cop that stopped me, the group would've killed me.

    So just because you happen to survive your encounter with cops, you're okay with what happened? The cop was completely out of line and abusive and acted illegally in his interaction with you 35 years ago. The fact that you admit that you could have been killed by that cop, for nothing more than driving is unacceptable. That cop should have been fired for how he treated you, but I bet he wasn't even reprimanded. The survival a person from an interaction with cops shouldn't be dependent on them acting perfectly in a situation under duress and being docile while letting the cops throw them around or beat them to death. The system is broken and this is why we need a new approach to policing.

    I recognize Nichols' humanity in the 2nd encounter. He was abused horribly in the 2nd encounter, but where is the recognition of Nichols' fault in this matter in the first encounter? The 2nd encounter wouldn't have occurred if he hadn't resisted and then escaped.

    Trye Nichol's humanity existed at the 1st encounter too. He should have been treated humanely by the cops that stopped him. It should have been presumed (by the cops) that he was innocent of what he was being stopped for (as required by laws). There is no justification for approaching his vehicle the way that they did or for snatching him out of his car and throwing him to the ground over a "routine" traffic stop. None!

    You may think it is bullshirt, but I think most people that resist are guilty and don't want to be caught. If he was innocent, and yet afraid for his life, it's because the media and the culture have over-stated the danger to his life from the police. Almost invariably, people that get killed are resisting the police. You are far more likely to come out well by being compliant to orders.

    I may have believed that once, but I increasingly find that is a lie. People do not trust that the cops will treat them humanely. This doesn't have to do with the media or the culture. As you can testify from your own personal lived experience, there is a real danger and threat to your life from police interactions if you don't behave as the perfect, docile citizen. Especially when cops see you as a treat (i.e., you're a black/brown male). And what that perfect, docile citizen is and looks like depends on the cop you're interacting with. What you seem incapable of grasping is that the way police treat people is the very reason they don't comply with orders (because they're scared, threatened, confused and fearful).
     
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    The cops were excessively forceful with him in the first interaction. I completely disagree with you there.
    The majority of the force was due to Nichols resisting.
    So just because you happen to survive your encounter with cops, you're okay with what happened? The cop was completely out of line and abusive and acted illegally in his interaction with you 35 years ago. The fact that you admit that you could have been killed by that cop, for nothing more than driving is unacceptable. That cop should have been fired for how he treated you, but I bet he wasn't even reprimanded. The survival a person from an interaction with cops shouldn't be dependent on them acting perfectly in a situation under duress and being docile while letting the cops throw them around or beat them to death. The system is broken and this is why we need a new approach to policing.
    I filed a complaint, so he at least got a record, and maybe got fired. The system has problems, as most do, but our culture has a lot of problems too. We excuse outlandish resistance and disrespect to authority that we wouldn't accept anywhere else in our lives.
    Try Nichol's humanity existed at the 1st encounter too. He should have been treated humanely by the cops that stopped him. It should have been presumed (by the cops) that he was innocent of what he was being stopped for (as required by laws). There is no justification for approaching his vehicle the way that they did or for snatching him out of his car and throwing him to the ground over a "routine" traffic stop. None!
    I agree that he should be treated humanely, but if they had reason to believe he was dangerous, they have to handle the suspect more abruptly.
    I may have believed that once, but I increasingly find that is a lie. People do not trust that the cops will treat them humanely. This doesn't have to do with the media or the culture. As you can testify from your own personal lived experience, there is a real danger and threat to your life from police interactions if you don't behave as the perfect, docile citizen. Especially when cops see you as a treat (i.e., you're a black/brown male). And what that perfect, docile citizen is and looks like depends on the cop you're interacting with. What you seem incapable of grasping is that the way police treat people is the very reason they don't comply with orders (because they're scared, threatened, confused and fearful).
    This fear is due to the media over-stating the abuse. I've had about a dozen encounters with cops, and only one terrible encounter. My ex-brother-in-law had a terrible one as well, but I think we are outliers. I've seen the statistics of encounters, and the overwhelming majority are good. That probably understates good encounters, because bad encounters probably get reported more than good ones. I also understand that the vast majority of the people that get abused, much more seriously than I did, were resisting the cops, so it is irrational to resist if you are really scared and fearful, because that vastly increases the odds of a self-fulling prophecy.
     
    The majority of the force was due to Nichols resisting.

    I disagree 100%. The force that was used by the cops was due to their approach and training and not predicated by Tyre Nichols reactions. What reaction by Nichols caused the cops to drag him out of his car the way they did at gun point and yelling obscenities from 20 different directions at him?

    I filed a complaint, so he at least got a record, and maybe got fired. The system has problems, as most do, but our culture has a lot of problems too. We excuse outlandish resistance and disrespect to authority that we wouldn't accept anywhere else in our lives.

    Tyre Nichols reaction to the force used by the cops was neither outlandish or disrespectful. Yet he's still dead.

    I agree that he should be treated humanely, but if they had reason to believe he was dangerous, they have to handle the suspect more abruptly.

    From a minor traffic violation? Try again.

    This fear is due to the media over-stating the abuse. I've had about a dozen encounters with cops, and only one terrible encounter. My ex-brother-in-law had a terrible one as well, but I think we are outliers. I've seen the statistics of encounters, and the overwhelming majority are good. That probably understates good encounters, because bad encounters probably get reported more than good ones. I also understand that the vast majority of the people that get abused, much more seriously than I did, were resisting the cops, so it is irrational to resist if you are really scared and fearful, because that vastly increases the odds of a self-fulling prophecy.

    Nope. It's due to the repeated actions of cops over many decades of policing. It's a justifiable fear of cops. I do everything I can to avoid any interactions with cops. It's not because of the media. It's because of my own personal experience with them (mild, when compared to this interaction) and because of those of other people I know. The truth is, you never know what type of cop you're going to be interacting with, so it's best to avoid them all if at all possible. Why do you believe your own interactions are outliers when there is so much evidence to the contrary?

    When you are lead to believe that the cops are going to kill you because of the overwhelming force they are using on you, it is impossible to not resist. We all have a will to live and want to survive. That's not an illogical action or belief in the situation given everything we know about cops interactions with civilians.
     
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    The cops said he tried to grab their guns.
    Ahhhh, the old dependable get out of jail free card. Claim he grabbed for their guns or that they feared for their lives.
    Resisting arrest is illegal, so it does make him guilty
    Resisting an illegal arrest is not resisting arrest and it is not illegal. It's standing your ground. The only thing that was a crime was the illegal arrest. The Chief of police has already stated that no legal reason can be found to justify the stop.
     
    I disagree 100%. The force that was used by the cops was due to their approach and training and not predicated by Trey Nichols reactions. What reaction by Nichols caused the cops to drag him out of his car the way they did at gun point and yelling obscenities from 20 different directions at him?



    Trey Nichols reaction to the force used by the cops was neither outlandish or disrespectful. Yet he's still dead.



    From a minor traffic violation? Try again.



    Nope. It's due to the repeated actions of cops over many decades of policing. It's a justifiable fear of cops. I do everything I can to avoid any interactions with cops. It's not because of the media. It's because of my own personal experience with them (mild, when compared to this interaction) and because of those of other people I know. The truth is, you never know what type of cop you're going to be interacting with, so it's best to avoid them all if at all possible. Why do you believe your own interactions are outliers when there is so much evidence to the contrary?

    When you are lead to believe that the cops are going to kill you because of the overwhelming force they are using on you, it is impossible to not resist. We all have a will to live and want to survive. That's not an illogical action or belief in the situation given everything we know about cops interactions with civilians.
    About 60 million encounters per year and about 1000 killings. I heard a stat today on the Dan Abram’s show that the overwhelming majority of those are positive.
     
    There is a story going around right now that Tyre Nichols worked at FedEx, and that one of the officers' ex and baby mama also worked there. They are speculating that this was a personal thing against Tyre.
     
    There is a story going around right now that Tyre Nichols worked at FedEx, and that one of the officers' ex and baby mama also worked there. They are speculating that this was a personal thing against Tyre.
    It sort of makes the most sense at this point.
     
    Ahhhh, the old dependable get out of jail free card. Claim he grabbed for their guns or that they feared for their lives.
    I think the claim that he tried to grab the gun came after Nichols had been acting crazy for a while during the first encounter.
    Resisting an illegal arrest is not resisting arrest and it is not illegal. It's standing your ground. The only thing that was a crime was the illegal arrest. The Chief of police has already stated that no legal reason can be found to justify the stop.
    It is illegal to resist arrest period. Taurus posted the law earlier. It is only okay to resist if you are being killed.
     
    About 60 million encounters per year and about 1000 killings. I heard a stat today on the Dan Abram’s show that the overwhelming majority of those are positive.

    That 1,000 reported killings is a severe undercount. But even with that number, why are we such an outlier in the developed world when it comes to police killings? This isn't a media creation.

     
    I think the claim that he tried to grab the gun came after Nichols had been acting crazy for a while during the first encounter.

    It is illegal to resist arrest period. Taurus posted the law earlier. It is only okay to resist if you are being killed.
    Is it? This past year, there was an incident in Texas I believe where a leo saw a car that he thought had evaded him numerous time. He approached the car with gun blazing and without warning opened the car's door. This while the kid was eating a hamburger. So in a panic the kid reversed his car and drove off. The Leo just fired his gun wounding that boy. The irony, he was arrested at the hospital for resisting. And in LA, I believe there have now been at least 3 killings this from LEO already. I don't think you ought to excuse excessive force because it leads to abuse. LEOs when they stop us are in complete control. I've been stopped a few times and the psyche is that they rule over me. With that there needs to be elevated standards as to how they behave. And let's not even bring up LA State Troopers routinely roughing up black motorists.


    Investigators quickly determined that the use of deadly force was unwarranted, and Brennand was fired. Charges against Cantu of aggravated assault and evading arrest were dropped.
     
    There is a story going around right now that Tyre Nichols worked at FedEx, and that one of the officers' ex and baby mama also worked there. They are speculating that this was a personal thing against Tyre.
    Deleted because there isn’t any proof of this statemen’s truth
     
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