Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (16 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

You fail to understand that the purpose was to overturn an election. What, exactly, would you call that? It was terrorism which is defined as politically motivated violence. The right under the sway of Trump has sought to specifically undermine democratic institutions. From the concept of a free press which is in the first amendment and which Jefferson thought was critical to a free people to casting doubt on the primary foundation of democracy, voting.

They were just peaceful tourists...lol
The only rebuttle they really have is "look what BLM did to Target"...

 

[MT15]

Somehow, I missed that this actually happened.

 

[xpuma20x]

Somehow, I missed that this actually happened.

Yeah I've not heard of that situation either. The article said it was sent from a Trump supporting sovereign citizen group that used a forged State seal. Odd that only a "cease and desist" letter would be all that's done there. That seems like a federal crime to me? Also, don't sovereign citizens not believe that laws apply to them? If so, why do they care who is president?

 

[SamAndreas]

Yeah I've not heard of that situation either. The article said it was sent from a Trump supporting sovereign citizen group that used a forged State seal. Odd that only a "cease and desist" letter would be all that's done there. That seems like a federal crime to me? Also, don't sovereign citizens not believe that laws apply to them? If so, why do they care who is president?

There's a paragraph at Wikipedia with a lead and a tail that I like to quote in times like these, when the topic has turned to that of "Sovereign Citizens."

In a criminal case in 2013, the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington noted:

Defendant [Kenneth Wayne Leaming] is apparently a member of a group loosely styled "sovereign citizens". The Court has deduced this from a number of Defendant's peculiar habits. First, like Mr. Leaming, sovereign citizens are fascinated by capitalization. They appear to believe that capitalizing names have some sort of legal effect. For example, Defendant writes that "the REGISTERED FACTS appearing in the above Paragraph evidence the uncontroverted and uncontrovertible FACTS that the SLAVERY SYSTEMS operated in the names UNITED STATES, United States, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and United States of America ... are terminated nunc pro tunc by public policy, U.C.C. 1-103 ..." (Def.'s Mandatory Jud. Not. at 2.) He appears to believe that by capitalizing "United States", he is referring to a different entity than the federal government. For better or for worse, it's the same country.
Second, sovereign citizens, like Mr. Leaming, love grandiose legalese. "COMES NOW, Kenneth Wayne, born free to the family Leaming, [date of birth redacted], constituent to The People of the State of Washington constituted 1878 and admitted to the union 22 February 1889 by Act of Congress, a Man, "State of Body" competent to be a witness and having First-Hand Knowledge of The FACTS ..." (Def.'s Mandatory Jud. Not. at 1.)
Third, Defendant evinces, like all sovereign citizens, a belief that the federal government is not real and that he does not have to follow the law. Thus, Defendant argues that as a result of the "REGISTERED FACTS", the "states of body, persons, actors, and other parties perpetuating the above-captioned transaction(s) [i.e., the Court and prosecutors] are engaged ... in acts of TREASON, and if unknowingly as victims of TREASON and FRAUD ..." (Def.'s Mandatory Jud. Not. at 2.)
The Court, therefore, feels some measure of responsibility to inform Defendant that all the fancy legal-sounding things he has read on the internet are make-believe ...[55]

Defendant Kenneth Wayne Leaming was found guilty of three counts of retaliating against a federal judge or law enforcement officer by a false claim, one count of concealing a person from arrest, and one count of being a felon in possession of a firearm.[56] On May 24, 2013, Leaming was sentenced to eight years in federal prison.[57]

Sovereign citizen movement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[zztop]

I guess I'll post this here:

North Carolina voters file suit to disqualify Rep. Cawthorn's re-election bid

The challenge alleges that the North Carolina Republican "urged his followers to threaten and intimidate" members of Congress.

www.axios.com

Why it matters: The legal challenge, filed before the North Carolina State Board of Elections, argues that Cawthorn's speech at the rally, questioning the result of the presidential election, constitutionally bars him from seeking a second term.

The voters contend that Cawthorn violated the 14th Amendment, which states that no person, "who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress ... shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion."

The challenge also alleges that the North Carolina Republican "urged his followers to threaten and intimidate" members of Congress, adding that he or his staff were also "in close contact with rally organizers."

 

[MT15]

Worth a shot. If the shoe were on the other foot, you know Rs would do it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Optimus Prime]

I can't wait for this guy to away and become a sad footnote to history/pop culture
=================================================

MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell is confident that he'll be successful in proving the election was fraudulent and recently claimed he has "enough evidence" to put hundreds of millions of people in jail.

Lindell has been a leading voice in former President Donald Trump's fight to render the 2020 election fraudulent but has failed to prove his case. He's long been touting a looming Supreme Court case filing, pushing his own self-imposed deadlines, and is now advising people to watch what happens over the next seven months.

Speaking with Gina Loudon, host of Dr. Gina Primetime on Real America's Voice on Tuesday, Lindell said he's "more optimistic" today than he was previously.

"We already have all the pieces of the puzzle," Lindell said. "When you talk about evidence, we have enough evidence to put everybody in prison for life –300 some million people."

It's unclear who Lindell was referencing when he mentioned 300 million people (according to the U.S. Census Bureau, the current population of the U.S. stands at just over 332 million). It's also unclear what evidence he has that could prove a criminal act occurred or what crime he believes he can prove............

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[MT15]

Is there nobody in his life to stage an intervention? Good grief, what a loon!

 

[zztop]

Is there nobody in his life to stage an intervention? Good grief, what a loon!

well apparently he did this before selling pillows - maybe it had some side effects

What Are the Odds? From Crack Addict to CEO

Audio book now available on audible.com All sales are final Due to the holographic cover this will not be accepted into prisons. Please select the prison approved version. Please review prison guidelines for acceptable materials and shipping goods.

www.mypillow.com

 

[CoolBrees]

So apparently Kayleigh McEnany gave testimony to the 1-6 committee today via teleconference….

Congress Minutes: Essential news and analysis from Jan 12, 2022

News and analysis from Capitol Hill for when you only have a few minutes, from POLITICO.

www.politico.com

 

[MT15]

I don’t know this - are they under oath when they testify to the committee? Cause her relationship with the truth is tenuous at best.

 

[MT15]

Somehow, I missed that this actually happened.

Related to this - there were Trump electors in all five states that Trump was contesting that signed fake certificates to say they were duly appointed electors and were casting their votes for Trump. There are text messages that Meadows turned over referencing a “team” that he had “on it” for these counterfeit electors.

It is believed that this violated both state and federal election laws. It also seems to me to indicate a widespread conspiracy to commit election fraud. This guy is a state representative in Arizona, and local reporters are starting to ask some relevant questions. The guy who calls himself Atticus Finch is who I follow on Twitter so that I saw this. He’s a lawyer and a Republican or maybe former Republican who cannot stomach what the R party has done.

 

[MT15]

Okay, just reading some more - it was seven states where Republicans brazenly counterfeited electoral vote certificates. Just openly trying to steal the election. Everything Republicans say that democrats are doing is pure projection and they have already done it.

 

[The moose]

I don’t know this - are they under oath when they testify to the committee? Cause her relationship with the truth is tenuous at best.

In all honesty they are inviting people not to tell the truth because they almost never go to jail for it.

I don't know history of all but I think Rodger Clemons was the closest but got off except for Michael Cohen one guy from the Reagan administration and Nixon chief of staff nobody really does time.

That is the problem if you don't put them in jail why would you expect the truth?

 

[Saintamaniac]

You fail to understand that the purpose was to overturn an election. What, exactly, would you call that? It was terrorism which is defined as politically motivated violence. The right under the sway of Trump has sought to specifically undermine democratic institutions. From the concept of a free press which is in the first amendment and which Jefferson thought was critical to a free people to casting doubt on the primary foundation of democracy, voting.

I think you're wrong about the people not understanding what the purpose was. They know full well what the purpose was but they can't and won't admit it because that would be an admission that they were there to do exactly what they are professing was not the purpose. As someone already mentioned, their only retort is "look at BLM!" The same people who are saying it wasn't a big deal would be hardcore defending the insurrection as necessary if it had succeeded. People died...law enforcement officers died and they are still saying it wasn't a big deal.

These people run around calling themselves and each other patriots as if they even had a remote clue of what it means to be a patriot. These are the same people who claim to love this country and love the military and love police officers. They love them until the police officers attempt to police them. They love the military until the military doesn't agree with them. They love the country until the country doesn't necessary look like them.

Those people cannot be reasoned with. Those people only want the destruction of those who don't believe what they believe. Those people are no different than the people who flew planes into the WTC. They are not interested in coexisting with the rest of us who don't think or believe the same things they do. They either want us to accept their reality as fact or they want us to not exist.

 

[bdb13]

(not really directed at @Saintamaniac's post above, just a general thought)

Not that I so much believe there's anything you can really do with the ones predisposed and preprogrammed to downplay Jan 6 and draw comparisons to the summer rioting.. but I do think the invocation and comparison of Jan 6 to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor is ineffective and wrongheaded messaging in a general sense - mainly because 9/11 and Pearl Harbor were (foreign) terrorist attacks defined in large part, at least in my own view, by the fact that thousands of people perished in each of those attacks. Jan 6 was not the same thing in that regard, thankfully.

Jan 6 was it's own thing with strong enough legs to stand alone on it's own without a modern-day equivalent. Incomparable to both the summer rioting and 9/11-Pearl Harbor.

 

[MT15]

Teri is a great follow on Twitter. She has a good, reasonable take on most political things:

this is a whole thread and worth the short time it takes to read it.