Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[MT15]

My article did not say that they came "only" from his time as Vice President.

Wow!

Trump has NPR lying for him now:

That included "six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials," some of which dated back to Biden's time in the Senate, Bauer said. The DOJ also took some "personally handwritten notes" from Biden's time as vice president.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/21/1150617734/the-doj-searched-bidens-home-and-found-more-classified-documents

The way I read the NPR sentence it does not say that the classified materials are from his Senate days. They don’t make a distinction, they lump the classified documents and surrounding materials together and say some of them date back to his Senate days.

 

[MT15]

My article did not say that they came "only" from his time as Vice President.

Wow!

Trump has NPR, AND Biden's personal attorney, lying for him now:

Some of the items date back to Biden's time as a a senator, while others were from his time as vice president, said Biden's personal attorney, Bob Bauer, announced the extraordinary development in a Saturday night statement. The Justice Department also took some handwritten notes for further review, he said.

That included "six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials," some of which dated back to Biden's time in the Senate, Bauer said. The DOJ also took some "personally handwritten notes" from Biden's time as vice president.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/21/1150617734/the-doj-searched-bidens-home-and-found-more-classified-documents

Can you actually read and parse the sentence? Or no?

 

[Snarky Sack]

This article contradicts what I have read in multiple places. And your article that I quoted contradicts it also. How do we know that the surrounding materials were from his Senate days with the way that sentence is worded?

Because NPR would have said so, and so would have Biden's personal attorney.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You shouldn’t change your name. You are pretty much 90% snark.

Ok, then!

I said I would follow your advice.

 

[MT15]

Because NPR would have said so, and so would have Biden's personal attorney.

They don’t say so. They lump classified documents and surrounding material together, and say some of them were from Senate days. Can you parse the sentence or no? It’s one sentence, evidently the NPR article is just repeating what the lawyer said.

From that one sentence, we cannot tell if the Senate material is classified or is it is the surrounding materials. At some point I suppose it will be specified, but at this point, unless you can find a better worded sentence, we don’t know.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Can you actually read and parse the sentence? Or no?

I can, I just don't parse it the way you do.

Why would Biden's personal attorney not have made that distinction which would partially exonerate Biden if that's what it meant? He would have said, "none of the classified stuff came from his days as a Senator, only the surrounding material."

If he's a good lawyer, and Allah knows Biden can afford one, I can easily see him wording that phrase so people like you can defend his client.

Do you agree that it would partially exonerate Biden or do you believe that taking classified material from the government and storing it in an unsecure location is pretty bad no matter where Biden was working when he did it?

 

[Snarky Sack]

BT15, here's the scoop from your favorite source:

Justice Department discovered six items containing classification markings during a consensual search of his home the previous day, some of which dated to his tenure in the Senate; investigators also seized some of Biden's handwritten notes from his vice presidency.[5]

 

[DaveXA]

Damn, Cohen is absolutely blasting Trump on CNN rn. Oof.

 

[MT15]

I can, I just don't parse it the way you do.

Why would Biden's personal attorney not have made that distinction which would partially exonerate Biden if that's what it meant? He would have said, "none of the classified stuff came from his days as a Senator, only the surrounding material."

If he's a good lawyer, and Allah knows Biden can afford one, I can easily see him wording that phrase so people like you can defend his client.

Do you agree that it would partially exonerate Biden or do you believe that taking classified material from the government and storing it in an unsecure location is pretty bad no matter where Biden was working when he did it?

Can you find another source that specifies? Plus, you’re really reaching here - which is more likely: that this one lawyer simply had a clunky sentence one time talking to a reporter, or he was some genius mastermind who is plotting every word out for the desired effect?

I’m certainly willing to learn that my impression is mistaken if it has been spelled out somewhere unambiguously. But this sentence is ambiguous.

Nope, I read that some the documents were handwritten notes he took during briefings for phone calls with foreign leaders - just as described in this very thread. These documents were not even missed by anyone. It’s not ideal, but considering the amount of material these guys handle, it‘s not exactly unheard of. I don’t blame Pence either, FWIW. Neither of these guys had any nefarious motives, as evidenced by them self-reporting, allowing more searches, allowing unfettered interviews with their staffs. Just total cooperation by both in every way.

 

[MT15]

BT15, here's the scoop from your favorite source:

Justice Department discovered six items containing classification markings during a consensual search of his home the previous day, some of which dated to his tenure in the Senate; investigators also seized some of Biden's handwritten notes from his vice presidency.[5]

More snark, what a shock. Got a source that isn’t a pig wearing lipstick?

 

[Snarky Sack]

More snark, what a shock. Got a source that isn’t a pig wearing lipstick?

Oh, now you don't like Wiki?

 

[MT15]

Oh, now you don't like Wiki?

You don’t know me well enough to know much of anything about me, really. I was snarkily repeating your dismissive comment about Wikipedia when you didn’t like what it said.

Anyway, I cannot access the source for that statement in Wiki. The link is broken, it takes me to a Trump article. For all we know the source is the same ambiguous sentence.

 

[MT15]

Here is another article worded exactly the same way, emphasis mine:

“DOJ had full access to the president's home, including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, binders, memorabilia, to-do lists, schedules, and reminders going back decades," Bauer said.

"DOJ took possession of materials it deemed within the scope of its inquiry, including six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials, some of which were from the president's service in the Senate and some of which were from his tenure as vice president. DOJ also took for further review personally handwritten notes from the vice presidential years."”

Justice Department finds 6 more documents at President Joe Biden's Delaware home office - UPI.com

Justice Department authorities found six more documents marked as classified at the Wilmington, Del., home office of President Joe Biden, his attorney announced Saturday.

www.upi.com

Still seems ambiguous. I included the first paragraph to show the nature of the materials they were sorting through. Highlights a big difference in the nature of the material between Trump and Biden, as far as we know right now.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You don’t know me well enough to know much of anything about me, really. I was snarkily repeating your dismissive comment about Wikipedia when you didn’t like what it said.

After you sang its praises. But it was good snark, though!

Anyway, I cannot access the source for that statement in Wiki. The link is broken, it takes me to a Trump article.

Yeah, the same happened to me. WaPo and NYT are horrible for that.

For all we know the source is the same ambiguous sentence.

Could be.

I'll ask again, is it exonerating for Biden if all of the documents were from his Senate days? Be as snarky as you like, but answer the question.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Here is another article worded exactly the same way, emphasis mine:

“DOJ had full access to the president's home, including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, binders, memorabilia, to-do lists, schedules, and reminders going back decades," Bauer said.

"DOJ took possession of materials it deemed within the scope of its inquiry, including six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials, some of which were from the president's service in the Senate and some of which were from his tenure as vice president. DOJ also took for further review personally handwritten notes from the vice presidential years."”

Justice Department finds 6 more documents at President Joe Biden's Delaware home office - UPI.com

Justice Department authorities found six more documents marked as classified at the Wilmington, Del., home office of President Joe Biden, his attorney announced Saturday.

www.upi.com

Still seems ambiguous. I included the first paragraph to show the nature of the materials they were sorting through. Highlights a big difference in the nature of the material between Trump and Biden, as far as we know right now.

Same question. Is it exonerating to Biden if all the documents were stolen while he was VP instead of in the Senate?

 

[MT15]

I already answered that question, or thought I did.

These documents weren’t stolen. Nobody who is being an impartial observer is saying they were stolen. They were swept up by accident and nobody even knew they were missing. Just like the Pence documents. So no, it doesn’t matter to me where the documents came from. But knowing the differences between handling of classified material between the Legislative and Executive, I would be surprised if they were from his Senate days.

And I‘ve heard the Trump lies - which are many about the Biden case. Such as - he won’t let anyone see the documents, and so forth. Trump is actually projecting here, IMO, it is he who didn’t want anyone to see, which is how he finds himself indicted for felonies at this point.

I am suspecting that both articles - the WaPo one we can’t access and the UPI one - are sourcing the same lawyer statement. I suppose it will come out at some point.

 

[MT15]

I found this poll interesting. I wonder if we will see some more R politicians reading these tea leaves and allowing themselves to criticize Trump?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Damn, Cohen is absolutely blasting Trump on CNN rn. Oof.

What did he say?