Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[DaveXA]

What did he say?

I'll see if I can find a video clip.

 

[FullMonte]

Actually, no. Those were the documents that Trump found, not the FBI.

Then what did you mean when you said the FBI should not have been surprised when the archivist told them they found classified material, since those were the documents the FBI found during the several times when Trump let the FBI into Mar-a-Lago into inspect his document storage.

If the FBI had not been to MAL yet, they most certainly would have been surprised to find out that Trump had classified documents.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Then what did you mean when you said the FBI should not have been surprised when the archivist told them they found classified material, since those were the documents the FBI found during the several times when Trump let the FBI into Mar-a-Lago into inspect his document storage.

If the FBI had not been to MAL yet, they most certainly would have been surprised to find out that Trump had classified documents.

Are you saying that the FBI never once went to Mar-a-Lago prior to their first trip to look at documents?

 

[FullMonte]

Are you saying that the FBI never once went to Mar-a-Lago prior to their first trip to look at documents?

I mean..I’m certain they never went to MAL before their first trip.

But, to answer the question I *think* you are asking. I don’t think the FBI went down to MAL to root through boxes of documents and see what was inside. It’s possible that during a routine visit for whatever purposes, they may have looked in a room and saw boxes and asked “are those documents”?

The idea that any FBI official saw documents marked classified in boxes mixed with other document at MAL and didn’t take action is beyond laughable.

Just the fact that they were mixed with other things is improper (not to mention not being stored in a certified container). To give you an example of what I mean…we have about three dozen maintenance manuals stored in a secure area. One (and only one) of them contains classified information. That one manual has to be stored on a separate shelf from all of the others, because classified and unclassified materials cannot be comingled.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I mean..I’m certain they never went to MAL before their first trip.

So, you really are saying that they never went to Mar-a-Lago before they went to look at documents?

But, to answer the question I *think* you are asking. I don’t think the FBI went down to MAL to root through boxes of documents and see what was inside.

What? You're saying that the FBI did not go to MAL and look at documents?

It’s possible that during a routine visit for whatever purposes, they may have looked in a room and saw boxes and asked “are those documents”?

So, you are saying that they did not see this:

The idea that any FBI official saw documents marked classified in boxes mixed with other document at MAL and didn’t take action is beyond laughable.

So, are you saying that Trump was right when he asserted that the documents were neatly in boxes, and it was the FBI who scattered them on the floor to stage the pictures?

Just the fact that they were mixed with other things is improper (not to mention not being stored in a certified container). To give you an example of what I mean…we have about three dozen maintenance manuals stored in a secure area. One (and only one) of them contains classified information. That one manual has to be stored on a separate shelf from all of the others, because classified and unclassified materials cannot be comingled.

Are you supposed to be talking about that?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

So Snark, i have 2 questions.
Was Trump asked to return the Documents and did he refuse?
Was Biden asked to return the documents and did he refuse?

 

[FullMonte]

So, you really are saying that they never went to Mar-a-Lago before they went to look at documents?

No, I was saying they never went to MAL before their first trip, which is the exact question you asked. I then went on to answer whether or not I thought they inspected the documents stored there prior to being notified by the archivist.

So, you are saying that they did not see this:

I doubt the FBI saw that. I would assume, or at least hope, that Trumps aide cleaned thst up after taking that picture.

The FBI saw that. I can say with 100% certainty, however, thst they did not see that prior to being notified by NARA that Trump had classified documents:

So, are you saying that Trump was right when he asserted that the documents were neatly in boxes, and it was the FBI who scattered them on the floor to stage the pictures?

Since the first picture you posted was taken by Trumps aide who found the box spilled onto the floor, I will say that at least on some occasions, the documents were not stored neatly in boxes.

Are you supposed to be talking about that?

Sure. There’s nothing wrong with discussing publicly available regulations and processes for storing classified information.

 

[Snarky Sack]

So Snark, i have 2 questions.
Was Trump asked to return the Documents and did he refuse?

Not that I know of. Show me the evidence.

Was Biden asked to return the documents and did he refuse?

Not that I know of. Show me the evidence.

Save you some cutting and pasting, "evidence" =/= clickable headlines nor accusations.

Specifically, show me how either Biden or Trump worded their so-called "refusal."

 

[Snarky Sack]

No, I was saying they never went to MAL before their first trip, which is the exact question you asked. I then went on to answer whether or not I thought they inspected the documents stored there prior to being notified by the archivist.



I doubt the FBI saw that. I would assume, or at least hope, that Trumps aide cleaned thst up after taking that picture.



The FBI saw that.

Are you saying that the FBI walked in and saw that rather than stage it?

 

[samiam5211]

Are you saying that the FBI walked in and saw that rather than stage it?

The photo of the boxes dumped on the floor was taken long before the FBI came.

The one with the documents spread out over the floor was staged by the FBI, and they never pretended that it was the way the documents were found.

 

[Huntn]

I’m her time on the bench, Cannon has presided over just four criminal trials totaling 14 days. She has no business being on the bench to start with - she’s purely a product of Rubio and Heritage, but now this wholly under qualified judge will preside over the most high profile criminal case in modern American history.

And she is a “Tump appointee”? If there were any bets about this trial, I’d describe them as now off.

 

[Snarky Sack]

The one with the documents spread out over the floor was staged by the FBI,

Manfully conceded! Your comrades could take a lesson from you..

 

[samiam5211]

Manfully conceded! Your comrades could take a lesson from you..

I don't think anyone was contradicting that. You are just trying to conflate things, it's what the Trump cult does.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I don't think anyone was contradicting that. You are just trying to conflate things, it's what the Trump cult does.

Are you saying that everyone I asked agreed that the FBI staged those documents?

 

[Huntn]

Yeah, and despite all of the rules and regulations and safeguards in place, classified documents do occasionally get left behind, misplaced, mishandled and such. More often than not they're not nefarious in nature, but still, those who are supposed to be in custody of classified documents still are responsible for the proper handling or transferring to the correct office (in this case NARA) if no longer needed.

It goes without saying that in Trump's case, he didn't return the documents in a timely manner and shared the content of classified docs with individuals who didn't have the required clearance. Allegedly anyway.

I suspect if all Trump did was stall returning the docs, this doesn't turn into the circus it has. Trump has no one to blame other than himself.

I'm preaching to the choir tho. Lol.

Plus this appears to be the first case where a President as he is permanently leaving the White House, has directed loading up the back of his pickup truck with classified documents to take home with him.

Now I do know how classified documents were handled among mear mortals, in the USN if we were going to leave the skiff with them for a mission in an airplane (mostly codes) we had to sign these items out and then back in After the mission. I always assumed that classified documents in the White House where kept in a skiff there, and the the same custodial procedures were used, but I can also imagine the Trump White House as a complete mess with the We Don’t Need No Stink’n Rules Crowd.

 

[Huntn]

Actually, no. Those were the documents that Trump found, not the FBI.

Trump did not find documents he took documents, and then when called in it, refused to give them back. This iis why MarLago was raided. And I’m still waiting for your link about Presidential Papers Act that allows a President to hoard classified documents after leaving the Presedency. I’m not holding my breath. This is (or was) a false claim made by you, in defense of Trump, unless somewhere in this thread you withdrew the claim.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Not that I know of. Show me the evidence.

Not that I know of. Show me the evidence.

Save you some cutting and pasting, "evidence" =/= clickable headlines nor accusations.

Specifically, show me how either Biden or Trump worded their so-called "refusal."

I know you won't believe any of it, but NARA did request the documents back. He returned some, which promted the NARA to look into if he had more. I'm sure you think its all made up and none of it really happened. And Biden may have been illigally storing documents, but, unlike Trump, didn't deny NARA to take them back.
Also, the "evidence" that Trump was asked and refused will be gone over in the criminal trial. But you won't believe the evidence even if its proven in court.

The previously unreported email — sent about 100 days after the former president left office with the subject line “Need for Assistance re Presidential Records” — also illustrates the myriad efforts Archives officials made to have documents including classified material returned over an 18-month period, culminating with an FBI raid this month at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club in Florida.

Cipollone was the White House counsel for Trump and was designated by Trump as one of his representatives to the Archives. A spokeswoman for Cipollone declined to comment Wednesday.
Stern does not say in the email how he determined that the boxes were in Trump’s possession. He wrote that he also had consulted another Trump lawyer during the final days of Trump’s presidency — without any luck. “I had also raised this concern with Scott in the final weeks,” Stern writes in the email, referring to Trump lawyer Scott Gast, who is also copied on the email.
In the email, Stern again asks for the documents to be returned.
Gast did not respond to a request for comment. A Trump spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The Archives did not respond to a request for comment.
Stern’s email to three Trump lawyers takes an almost pleading tone at times. Cipollone is not copied on the email, which is sent to Gast and two longtime Cipollone deputies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/24/trump-records-archives-2021/

 

[Snarky Sack]

I know you won't believe any of it, but NARA did request the documents back. He returned some, which promted the NARA to look into if he had more. I'm sure you think its all made up and none of it really happened. And Biden may have been illigally storing documents, but, unlike Trump, didn't deny NARA to take them back.
Also, the "evidence" that Trump was asked and refused will be gone over in the criminal trial. But you won't believe the evidence even if its proven in court.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/24/trump-records-archives-2021/

So you are saying that they asked him for documents and he gave them documents?

Doesn't sound like "refused." The words you're looking for might be "complied" or "cooperated."